Bow Nerf

VantagePoint

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Sep 1, 2015
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So Rapid Fire and Volley account for double attack as of 0.62... Because I'm absolutely certain they don't work in the 0.61 build. I made a new mercenary because of that.
 
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Fenoxo

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Acutally I derped and missed a line because I was only looking for three. I'll edit the previous post to make me be more right.
 
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Couch

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Really Overcharge should scale to 200% damage instead of 150% when the player's level 8 or above, much like Power Strike should either be scaling to 300% melee damage or should get the benefit of the melee flurry.  I'm in the midst of leveling a melee Merc right now, so I can't check yet if that's the case.
 

Savin

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I'll edit the previous post to make me be more right.

A+ forum administration :p

Really Overcharge should scale to 200% damage instead of 150% when the player's level 8 or above, much like Power Strike should either be scaling to 300% melee damage or should get the benefit of the melee flurry.  I'm in the midst of leveling a melee Merc right now, so I can't check yet if that's the case.

Lemme just scroll up in skype here~

Quote said:
Savin: I know they're more RELIABLE than double attack, but still basically the same damage output. Maybe have them tack on an extra 100% damage every 5 levels after they're gained (ie, at 8th, when Double Attack comes out)?
Though Power Strike flurry would be badass. Also probably OP, but still. CONAN SMASH.
 

VerySexyGrammar

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Aug 27, 2015
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Yeah, I tend to pick abilities based on what my build will eventually look like (rather than going for the immediate power gain), so I always pick abilities that scale and dismiss those that don't.

If (at level 9,001) I can Volley for a thousand attacks or Overcharge for one and a half attacks and a Stun... I'll pick Volley every time.

But anyway, thanks to Fen we know that Volley and Rapid Fire both benefit from extra attacks, which is valuable information.

Right now, the only thing I can think about is... a Merc using the Secure MP has got to be terrifying... 4 full-accuracy attacks with pretty good base damage!

I rate it 9 horsecocks out of 10.
 

Nik_van_Rijn

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Sep 10, 2015
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Quote said:
.,,it does seem like there's been some miscommunication between Savin and I regarding strength, though I don't mind a bunch of shitty, military grade powder-bangers being garbage compared to laser rifles that cost more than 100x as much. I'm not a gun nut, so the following analogy might be incorrect, but - an AK-47 from russian military surplus wouldn't hold up to a tricked out AR-15 (civvie version of m16) outfitted with a scope that can guarantee headshots out to one kilometer. The military units with actual funding would all be using rail rifles anyway.
 The item in question is a laser carbine, and its description as well as Anno's test-drive dialog states that it's a concurrent standard issue weapon in service with the second most powerful military of the setting . Anything better than that shouldn't  be legal or even present on a planet like Myrrelion.  I've always thought that since energy shields and properly futuristic armor sets are commonplace, the line between restricted military-grade weapons and their civvie versions lies in their ability to punch through said shields and armor, i.e. their 'power', unlike firearms laws of today.

Another thing is ZK rifle, which IIRC is a rail gun, having the same damage output as Myrs' bolt-action rifles. Do those sneaky sneaky ants mix some warpstone into their gunpowder?
 

Ormael

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Aug 27, 2015
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Another thing is ZK rifle, which IIRC is a rail gun, having the same damage output as Myrs' bolt-action rifles. Do those sneaky sneaky ants mix some warpstone into their gunpowder?

I would say it more cuz of the planet on which you can get each of those weapons. Like for ex. nuclear warheads launcher that you would find on Mhen'ga woud deal less dmg that primitve bow from Myrellion for sole reason that latter planet is far in main story line that former and thus got higher dmg output weapons even if some cases can be like my example (only less...overdramaticaly different).
 
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Nik_van_Rijn

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Sep 10, 2015
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I would say it more cuz of the planet on which you can get each of those weapons. Like for ex. nuclear warheads launcher that you would find on Mhen'ga woud deal less dmg that primitve bow form Myrellion for sole reason that latter planet is far in main story line that former and thus got higher dmg output weapons even if some cases can be like my example (only less...overdramaticaly different).

I'm aware of that, but if the team can be bothered, it probably won't be too too hard to fix things like that by swapping items and altering descriptions at some point, when the planet tiers will more or less shake down. If not, making sense of it all will at least be a good mental gymnastics routine.
 

VerySexyGrammar

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Aug 27, 2015
217
194
a Merc using the Secure MP has got to be terrifying... 4 full-accuracy attacks with pretty good base damage!

So, I tried Rapid Fire with that build.

First round of battle:

You land a hit on the crystal goo incubator with your Secure MP! (H: -27)

You land a hit on the crystal goo incubator with your Secure MP! Critical Hit! (H: -71)

You land a hit on the crystal goo incubator with your Secure MP! Critical Hit! (H: -83)

You land a hit on the crystal goo incubator with your Secure MP! (H: -42)

That, uh... that was a pretty good first round.

She put up her crystal shield thingy, so on the second round, I only did 92 damage (23 x4). Oh rather, I would have, but I only did 82 because she only had 13 HP left for the last hit.

Nyrean Princess? One-turn KO.

Queensguard did take three turns because of the armor and repeated healing.

Taivra, well... I still had the Concentrate Fire buff from Queensguard, so I did 260 damage to her in the first round and overkilled her like crazy in the second.

So yeah. That's, as they say, a thing.

Not as freakishly overpowered as the Lust bows were, but pretty damn good.
 

VantagePoint

Well-Known Member
Sep 1, 2015
159
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So, I tried Rapid Fire with that build.

First round of battle:

You land a hit on the crystal goo incubator with your Secure MP! (H: -27)

You land a hit on the crystal goo incubator with your Secure MP! Critical Hit! (H: -71)

You land a hit on the crystal goo incubator with your Secure MP! Critical Hit! (H: -83)

You land a hit on the crystal goo incubator with your Secure MP! (H: -42)

That, uh... that was a pretty good first round.

She put up her crystal shield thingy, so on the second round, I only did 92 damage (23 x4). Oh rather, I would have, but I only did 82 because she only had 13 HP left for the last hit.

Nyrean Princess? One-turn KO.

Queensguard did take three turns because of the armor and repeated healing.

Taivra, well... I still had the Concentrate Fire buff from Queensguard, so I did 260 damage to her in the first round and overkilled her like crazy in the second.

So yeah. That's, as they say, a thing.

Not as freakishly overpowered as the Lust bows were, but pretty damn good.

Question?

Why the Secure MP?
 

VerySexyGrammar

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Aug 27, 2015
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Question?

Why the Secure MP?

The weapon's special effect description is sort of vague, but from what I've been reading here, it lets you keep your full accuracy on "low accuracy" attacks from perks. I haven't kept records of all my attacks, but from my limited testing, it seems to be working.

Functionally, Rapid Fire normally yields one full accuracy attack and three low-accuracy attacks, but the Secure MP would let you perform four full-accuracy attacks.

A high chance to miss on 3/4 of my attacks would be crippling for my damage output, probably more so than the loss of damage from using a weaker (13 base damage instead of 20) weapon.
 
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VerySexyGrammar

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Aug 27, 2015
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Yeeeeeeah... I just tried with a Salamander Pistol.

First Rapid Fire only hit once (my main attack), second Rapid Fire didn't hit a single time out of four shots, and third Rapid Fire again didn't hit a single time out of four shots.

If that wasn't bad enough, my Concentrate Fire perk isn't activating because I'm not hitting.

I can stomach "flurry" attacks if the number of attacks is high enough that it averages out to a decent, semi-reliable amount of damage. But that's not at all the case here. You only get 2 to 4 attacks, having 1 to 3 of them miss most of the time is total BS. It weren't for the Secure MP, I simply wouldn't play Merc at all; as it is, I only have access to one weapon that I deem acceptable. Shame, because it's the only class that isn't crippled by low Int.

Tech Specs can't really use the Secure MP (it's not an energy weapon), so they're fucked on Volley.

I'll probably stick to Smugglers for the time being; zero weapon restrictions, and Shoot First is always reliable.
 

VantagePoint

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Sep 1, 2015
159
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Yeeeeeeah... I just tried with a Salamander Pistol.

First Rapid Fire only hit once (my main attack), second Rapid Fire didn't hit a single time out of four shots, and third Rapid Fire again didn't hit a single time out of four shots.

If that wasn't bad enough, my Concentrate Fire perk isn't activating because I'm not hitting.

I can stomach "flurry" attacks if the number of attacks is high enough that it averages out to a decent, semi-reliable amount of damage. But that's not at all the case here. You only get 2 to 4 attacks, having 1 to 3 of them miss most of the time is total BS. It weren't for the Secure MP, I simply wouldn't play Merc at all; as it is, I only have access to one weapon that I deem acceptable. Shame, because it's the only class that isn't crippled by low Int.

Tech Specs can't really use the Secure MP (it's not an energy weapon), so they're fucked on Volley.

I'll probably stick to Smugglers for the time being; zero weapon restrictions, and Shoot First is always reliable.

Ehh, unless they make recurring items like the Secure MP every once in awhile, I'm not sure I'll play my Mercenary much.

The amount of damage Smugglers can output compared to the other two classes is insane, and I do love my classes having reliable, high damage. 
 

Ormael

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Aug 27, 2015
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Ehh, unless they make recurring items like the Secure MP every once in awhile, I'm not sure I'll play my Mercenary much.

The amount of damage Smugglers can output compared to the other two classes is insane, and I do love my classes having reliable, high damage. 

Thing about Secure MP is it have one of those fancy weapon tags. Like now we got shield leech tag on one of new energy wepons from Emmy. So as long we not get some new weapon with same tag like Secure MP that would work for Techs and Mercs (well for them as been weapon their would more fitting their theme) it will ike it's now. Then again it's matter of writing/designing it which compared to other slight bigger projects isn't as bad and hopefully someone soon will fix that issue ^^ (well I hope so at least)
 

VerySexyGrammar

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Aug 27, 2015
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I don't know if I even want to see an energy version of the Secure MP...

The way things are going now, the game really, really, really wants you to use flurry attacks. For a ranged Merc, Rapid Fire is the *only* offensive ability, and Tech Specs are in a similar situation with Volley since Overcharge doesn't scale. And at level 8, even basic attacks become flurry attacks; that's literally the only option available at that level. When *all* attacks (basic and special) are flurry attacks, using weapons that support flurry attacks becomes the only way to play.

If an energy Secure MP becomes available, every Tech Spec ever will be "forced" to use it. That's boring as fuck. For variety, you'd have to use weapons that you know aren't anywhere as good.

Hopefully, we'll see some viable, scaling, non-flurry attacks in the future. It's the only way out of this pigeon hole.
 

Savin

Master Analmander
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Clearly the solution is to just make more enemies that are outright immune to physical damage, or you have to status down before you can actually hit at all  :p
 

Galgano

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Aug 28, 2015
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I don't really like the idea of flurry attacks. Just imagining it to be scalable based on level makes me think that by the time you're level 13, you are so fast with your attacks that nothing should be able to touch you. If you can attack that fast, you should be able to move that fast using other parts of your body. It kind of reminds me of D&D, where by level 20, a single character could seemingly level an entire town by himself. That just seems too unrealistic to me.

The way things are going now, the game really, really, really wants you to use flurry attacks. For a ranged Merc, Rapid Fire is the *only* offensive ability, and Tech Specs are in a similar situation with Volley since Overcharge doesn't scale. And at level 8, even basic attacks become flurry attacks; that's literally the only option available at that level. When *all* attacks (basic and special) are flurry attacks, using weapons that support flurry attacks becomes the only way to play.

What would you think to having the level 8 perks be changed to better suit the class? I haven't played other classes, so I can't say if this would be bad for them, but what if Tech Spec had their level 8 perk choices switched around.

Flurry Attack: all basic attacks and multi attacks get an increased number of attacks per turn. Energy weapons get an increase of damage. (The reason for combining the flurry attack for ranged and melee into one is because, as of right now, melee Tech Specs don't seem all that viable. Because of that, you are screwing yourself out of a perk if you choose the melee version.)

and then either something that increases energy, or that allows the Tech Spec to use non-energy weapons with their skills. If they have these two choices, I think the decisions could be more diverse. Would you rather focus on energy weapons solely, or would you want less damage, but have better access to more weapons?

I am probably thinking about this wrong. I like the Tech Spec and would like to see them become more powerful; these perk decisions would probably not be suited for this game. Also, I think this may be in the wrong thread, but this thread has already been derailed.

Pertaining to the thread, I can understand the drop in the lust bow damage...kind of. Whenever I have 100/100 tease skill in a particular area, my tease skills do about 20-25 lust damage. I never used the old lust bows, but if they were doing the same amount before, and they were nerfed because you were doing too much lust damage (because max lust is 100), then they should also nerf the amount of tease damage. That's my thought for the topic
 

Couch

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Teases do 20-25 per shot if they're of the enemy's favored tease type.  Lust bows combined with flurries were doing 100 lust damage in one go.
 

VerySexyGrammar

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Aug 27, 2015
217
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Whew, things.

There are two types of damage in the game, and many enemies are already immune to one of them, so... hey, if some want to be immune to the other, why not?

1. About Flurry

I hate flurry attacks too (again, unless they're made in such large numbers that it averages out the damage), and I find the level 8 perk to be particularly detestable... but other people seemed to be OK with it, so I'm not pushing for its removal.

One thing that could be done is to separate the level 8 perk choice into Flurry and Non-Flurry instead of Melee Flurry and Ranged Flurry. If you pick the Flurry version, it'll buff both your ranged and melee attacks, but that won't necessarily make it better because you'll be using one over the other anyway (you can't use both at once). I've mentioned this before, but the way things are now, the level 8 perk choice isn't really a choice; players will pick the Ranged version if they've built their characters as Ranged and the Melee version if they've built their character as Melee. Since they'll automatically take the one that corresponds to previous choices, it's just not a real choice.

This same principle applies to some other perks too. Mercs and Tech Specs both have talents that give them +20% to a type of damage (Kinetic and Energy, respectively), and those are separated into Melee and Ranged perks, meaning players again don't have a choice; they'll just pick whichever matches their previous Melee/Ranged choices. The game tells players "OH BY THE WAY YOU'VE DECIDED TO SPECIALIZE IN A TYPE OF WEAPON AND CAN YOU REMIND ME AGAIN IF YOU'RE MELEE OR RANGED?" and that's it. What if one perk gave that same 20% bonus to both Melee and Ranged attacks? Then you'd free up the other perk to offer players a *real* choice.

We've got 8 damn perk choices, yet pretty much no possible customization. That's just fucked up.

2. About Lust

Obviously the Lust bows were overpowered. They had to be strong, because Lust damage weapons don't scale off of any stat, but multiple attacks made them too effective.

I do still see a huge issue with Lust weapons. A physical damage attack's power is a combination of your stats and your weapon's stats; they're not in competition, they just work together. But Lust weapons have static damage, and it's in direct competition with Tease. If one of them is better than the other, then the other is useless. So Lust weapons either make Tease completely worthless, or they're completely worthless themselves. My Merc test character did 41 damage with a single Tease yesterday, at around 55/100 Tease level and without optimized Sexiness gear, so for that character Lust weapons are laughably weak and I'd simply never use one.

I know the game is in alpha, but damn... the system's not just imbalanced, it's got a broken core.

Well, maybe that's a little harsh... let's just say the two-perk choice system is theoretically fine, and in fact has nice potential; it's just not being used properly.
 
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Nik_van_Rijn

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Sep 10, 2015
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Whew, things.

There are two types of damage in the game, and many enemies are already immune to one of them, so... hey, if some want to be immune to the other, why not?

1. About Flurry

I hate flurry attacks too (again, unless they're made in such large numbers that it averages out the damage), and I find the level 8 perk to be particularly detestable... but other people seemed to be OK with it, so I'm not pushing for its removal.

One thing that could be done is to separate the level 8 perk choice into Flurry and Non-Flurry instead of Melee Flurry and Ranged Flurry. If you pick the Flurry version, it'll buff both your ranged and melee attacks, but that won't necessarily make it better because you'll be using one over the other anyway (you can't use both at once). I've mentioned this before, but the way things are now, the level 8 perk choice isn't really a choice; players will pick the Ranged version if they've built their characters as Ranged and the Melee version if they've built their character as Melee. Since they'll automatically take the one that corresponds to previous choices, it's just not a real choice.

This same principle applies to some other perks too. Mercs and Tech Specs both have talents that give them +20% to a type of damage (Kinetic and Energy, respectively), and those are separated into Melee and Ranged perks, meaning players again don't have a choice; they'll just pick whichever matches their previous Melee/Ranged choices. The game tells players "OH BY THE WAY YOU'VE DECIDED TO SPECIALIZE IN A TYPE OF WEAPON AND CAN YOU REMIND ME AGAIN IF YOU'RE MELEE OR RANGED?" and that's it. What if one perk gave that same 20% bonus to both Melee and Ranged attacks? Then you'd free up the other perk to offer players a *real* choice.

We've got 8 damn perk choices, yet pretty much no possible customization. That's just fucked up.

2. About Lust

Obviously the Lust bows were overpowered. They had to be strong, because Lust damage weapons don't scale off of any stat, but multiple attacks made them too effective.

I do still see a huge issue with Lust weapons. A physical damage attack's power is a combination of your stats and your weapon's stats; they're not in competition, they just work together. But Lust weapons have static damage, and it's in direct competition with Tease. If one of them is better than the other, then the other is useless. So Lust weapons either make Tease completely worthless, or they're completely worthless themselves. My Merc test character did 41 damage with a single Tease yesterday, at around 55/100 Tease level and without optimized Sexiness gear, so for that character Lust weapons are laughably weak and I'd simply never use one.

I know the game is in alpha, but damn... the system's not just imbalanced, it's got a broken core.

1) So you are against the idea of every class having a number of archetypes and several interconnected skills in each with additional optional choices, and instead want almost every choice to be at least semi-viable for every build? I'd love to see that as well, but coming up with additional options, coding and then balancing them probably is a lot of work. I'd much rather have more characters, quests and challenging foes.

2) I'm playing the last public build and I'm 100% sure that Lust damage does scale. Additionally, I've never seen Tease doing so well even with 80+ skill. Even if it's the case, we have to remember that it has it's own separate resistance stat, and some enemies just flat out refuse to find any physical traits your character possess atm alluring.
 
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VerySexyGrammar

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Aug 27, 2015
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In a regular game, I wouldn't necessarily require every choice to be at least semi-viable. When you have tons of options, it's normal that some be better than others. However... TiTS uses the two-perk choice system. Its defining characteristic is that, well, there are only two options per level. If one of them isn't viable... well you can't call what remains (only one option) a "choice", can you? So yes, in this case, all (both) options need to be viable.

In-game content is multiplied by the different ways you can navigate through it. If all Mercs are the same then you'll only want to go through the game with a Merc once or twice. If you have lots of different builds, you might want to experience the game through most of them and, if you cycle through them, the game won't feel anywhere as repetitive. Balancing a class is not easy, but it's worth tons of actual content. It's a great investment.

I just tested the new Myr Bow and... you're right, it does scale off of something (fuck if I know what). That's nice, but the bow is still worthless since my Tease does way, way more Lust damage on average, even as unoptimized as it is. Maybe there's some enemy somewhere that is super resistant to Tease and somehow vulnerable to weapon Lust, but even if there is, I'm not carrying a bow around and switching to it if I happen to encounter that enemy; inventory space is super limited, and the extra round alone gives you one extra Tease that is probably more than enough to make up the difference. Maybe it'd be worth it on a Smuggler since they have extra inventory and the ability to switch weapons without losing a round...

Sorry, I'm just not getting the "Oh, I want to try this build or that build next!" feeling that games with customization let you experience. I've played Merc once and I really don't want to do it again because it'd be the exact same playthrough.
 

Savin

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Sorry, I'm just not getting the "Oh, I want to try this build or that build next!" feeling that games with customization let you experience.

It's not really SUPPOSED to (different classes kind of do that, but that's about it). Games like TiTS and CoC are much more about playing one or two characters for many, many years as new content rolls out.
 

VerySexyGrammar

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Aug 27, 2015
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It's not really SUPPOSED to (different classes kind of do that, but that's about it). Games like TiTS and CoC are much more about playing one or two characters for many, many years as new content rolls out.

Hmm... well, what can I say. That's unfortunate.

Variety is a great way to multiply a game's content by letting players experience it repeatedly in different ways, and the two-perk system is capable of granting a lot of customization for little effort. Taking the time to implement it and then not using it... it's a shame.

No intended replayability... I'm going to have to think about that one for a while, it's a tough one to stomach.
 

Couch

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Aug 26, 2015
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Combat design is hard.  It's probably the hardest part of any game system to design, on top of which TiTS has to deal with being a game that can't be especially difficult because most people don't want to think overmuch about the combat, but there's an enormous stigma as gamers against playing on easy mode so you can't assume most players who would benefit from it will do it.

That said, there is plenty of room for improvement.  I've offered one potential method, there are of course many more.  In general I favor methods that allow someone with enough of a completionist urge to go grab all the powers, for a few reasons:

  • It naturally takes care of the need to make the game easy, because people who don't want to accept an easy mode setting are still willing to spend hours grinding until they've got enough powers that they can steamroll the game anyway.  People are stupid that way.
  • It doesn't actually impact replayability all that much because we already have several vectors for replay value, such as appearance, personality, and character decisions.  Having different classes and class builds on top of that is nice, but there's plenty of other reasons to play multiple times.
  • Even if you have all the powers, you only have one action per turn.  Even if Steele could learn both Power Strike and Overcharge at the same time, they can't do both at once.  At present you only have two moves worth using: your damage multiplier attack, and your healing skill.  If you're a Tech Specialist then you only have one move worth using because your shield-restoring skills are actively a waste of time and trade a nonrenewable resource you have in scarcity for a renewable resource you already have more of than anyone else.  If you have both a strong melee attack and a stunning ranged attack, then you can choose freely between them to give yourself a sense of variety, even though the actual damage per round from that isn't going to be any better than if you'd just spammed one or the other half a dozen times.
  • Related to the above: I like having lots of powers.  It's fun.  It makes it feel like there's more diversity in combat when you can throw spells in one combat and hack away with your sword the next even though from a functional perspective there is virtually no benefit to doing that.  There's value to having multiple options each turn even when the net outcome of those options are basically the same.
 

Savin

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Combat design is hard.  It's probably the hardest part of any game system to design, on top of which TiTS has to deal with being a game that can't be especially difficult because most people don't want to think overmuch about the combat, but there's an enormous stigma as gamers against playing on easy mode so you can't assume most players who would benefit from it will do it.

It's not even just DIFFICULTY that's the issue (although refusal to use easy mode is kind of infuriating from a design standpoint). And believe me, you'd be SHOCKED to see how many people complain to me about how TiTS is too hard/complex/etc. already. Mechanical complexity HAS to be low (because most people are busy thinking with a different head), and combat can neither be very in-depth (requiring any amount of tactical thought or maneuvering), and worse, you can't require a fight to require too much clicking (again, slows things down), so the information we present to the player needs to be brief, immediate, and with as little menu-diving as possible. Boss fights and dungeons are about the only place that design philosophy can really waver. 

Imagine playing Fire Emblem but in 1 v. 1. That's about the highest bracket of complexity what is primarily a porn game can withstand. There's SOME room for choice, like what weapon you're using or what special (if any) to use, but they're at-a-glance and transient decisions. You could honestly replace any non-boss encounters with a 3x3 Tic-tac-toe game, and bosses with a 5x5 or 7x7 or something, and hit about the same depth as the average dick-wanker is looking for in his porn game. 

(And yes, Tic Tac Toe is intentional. Because given players get the first turn, they will ALWAYS win or draw once they realize the Centerpoint rule.)

TL;DR I'm glad some people enjoy TiTS's combat mechanics, and moreso that some of you enjoy discussing and theory-crafting them. I have fun working with and designing them. But most people don't care, and frankly, if your primary concern with the game is its deep and amazing mechanics, you're fundamentally barking up the wrong tree. 
 
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VerySexyGrammar

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Aug 27, 2015
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refusal to use easy mode is kind of infuriating from a design standpoint

TL;DR I'm glad some people enjoy TiTS's combat mechanics, and moreso that some of you enjoy discussing and theory-crafting them. I have fun working with and designing them. But most people don't care, and frankly, if your primary concern with the game is its deep and amazing mechanics, you're fundamentally barking up the wrong tree. 

I think this is the big thing here.

If some people just want to get to the porn and not think about combat or builds or anything, then I say just fucking give them Easy/Porn Mode, then you can work on the actual system unhindered by the need for extreme simplicity. Some "porn" games, be they RPGs or action games, have excellent gameplay. This could be the case for TiTS. It doesn't *need* to have overly simplistic, borderline mindless and totally imbalanced game design because it's got porn in it. You can make a real game and just put it behind Gamer Mode.

But if the design philosophy is "Well most people don't give a shit about the actual gameplay so let's not waste time on it"... then yes, I'm definitely barking up the wrong tree. I like text porn as much as the next guy, but it's just not enough for me. I was hoping for a good (simple, but still good) game system. If it's simply not intended, well, there's nothing I can do about it. I'm disappointed, but Kickstarted (or in this case, Offbeatred) stuff doesn't always end up like you imagined it would. I took a risk, it didn't pay out. Shit happens.

I'll keep an eye on things for a little while longer, and at the very least I'll probably come back to the game a couple times a year to see how it's progressed. My hopes are crushed, but in my book that's better than being unaware or delusional.
 

Savin

Master Analmander
Staff member
Aug 26, 2015
6,078
9,761
You can make a real game and just put it behind Gamer Mode.

THAT is a legitimately decent idea -- have an optional hard or whatever mode -- rather than expecting the majority of people to voluntarily put on Easy Mode (they won't). But that's something that, at best, would have to wait until near or after the game's completion, since what you're asking for (and a legitimate Hard Mode that isn't just tacking on HP to enemies would require) is basically a complete refactoring of the game system. 

Given the constraints TiTS (and its ilk) operate under, I think its game system IS good. It could be better, though, and it will get better as the alpha goes on. But refining the game's mechanics are nowhere near a top priority (especially now, when swatches of mechanics are simply non-existent), and if that's what you came here for, you'd do right by yourself to avoid further disappointment. Come back in 3 or 4 years when the game's actually done, or at least past release, and maybe things will suit you a little more. 
 

Nonesuch

Scientist
Creator
Aug 27, 2015
2,186
3,551
One of CoC's biggest positives is how easy it is to get to the smut. This is in stark contrast to most RPG fap games, which have a nasty tendency to lock the goods behind mediocre waffle and obtuse gateways. In CoC, within five clicks of starting you've got your quest/back story sorted out and you can be fucking a goblin. Equally, no matter how far you're into the game, a player is never any distance away from the scene that really does it for them, meaning it's dead easy for a player to jump in and get a quick fap out of it. This is essential to understanding why CoC was so popular, and crucially I think Fen didn't actually grasp that. In terms of game mechanics I consider TiTS's long-winded, dull and poorly designed intro and its map-style interface, which puts many scenes a fair distance away from each other, to be greater failings than anything to do with its fight mechanics (which imho are as reasonable as is possible without different modes, as Savin says), and what people really mean when they say it's "too complicated".

Given the opportunity to do something new, I think exploring "instance" type gameplay, where the player stays in a central location collectin dem waifus as they emerge in his dungeon crawls, would be a much better format for smut gaming than the standard map RPG, and would offer more scope for added complexity than CoC's very basic random area exploration.
 

Enigmatic D

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2015
368
31
One of CoC's biggest positives is how easy it is to get to the smut. This is in stark contrast to most RPG fap games, which have a nasty tendency to lock the goods behind mediocre waffle and obtuse gateways. In CoC, within five clicks of starting you've got your quest/back story sorted out and you can be fucking a goblin. Equally, no matter how far you're into the game, a player is never any distance away from the scene that really does it for them, meaning it's dead easy for a player to jump in and get a quick fap out of it. This is essential to understanding why CoC was so popular, and crucially I think Fen didn't actually grasp that. In terms of game mechanics I consider TiTS's long-winded, dull and poorly designed intro and its map-style interface, which puts many scenes a fair distance away from each other, to be greater failings than anything to do with its fight mechanics (which imho are as reasonable as is possible without different modes, as Savin says), and what people really mean when they say it's "too complicated".

Given the opportunity to do something new, I think exploring "instance" type gameplay, where the player stays in a central location collectin dem waifus as they emerge in his dungeon crawls, would be a much better format for smut gaming than the standard map RPG, and would offer more scope for added complexity than CoC's very basic random area exploration.

Could you say the same thing about FoE? Or is it different from CoC?