Bow Nerf

VantagePoint

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Sep 1, 2015
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Afaik Savin practicaly done writing part for KaraQuest priate base so it's matter of it been coded into game (evident since he already dropped few bits of info about it on wiki) so my bets is he could as well now working on SyriQuest. As for bows we not have only Tanis one ya know -_-' The one you need get at Myrelion to unlock it and the one (if some get lucky to beat easy Queen of the Deep) from deep caves bows are on Myrellion lvl in term of dmg (lust ones too). I not think SyriQuest would be bigger that KaraQuest so we could have maybe 3-4 weeks of waiting (anyway I blame that as humans we always complain on something). Come one people bows were adjusted to have some more realistic dmg their deal and many people are ready to move earth/heaven/hell cuz it mess up their fun of few shooting everything without lust dmg immunity. A little more perspective and less tartanum throw cuz of that. In a few weeks who would remember something like bows nerfs issue?

Nobody's throwing tantrums, a few are disappointed but overall, people are fine.

Queen of the Deep's Bow is the best Lust weapon so far, even after the nerf. I can understand the nerfs for the lust raising weapons, not so much the Tanis Bow, although it is going to be a planet two weapon soon. There's just not that many buyable guns on Myrellion. Most of them are gimmicky as hell, like High Damage, Low Accuracy, Low overall stance with a chance to burn, etc, and the Gimmick weapons generally can't be used very effectively by non smuggler classes because otherwise, it takes up a turn switching them out. So if you aren't a Smuggler there isn't a huge reason to buy those weapons.

I think the strongest Ranged weapon we have is the Hunting Rifle, which has like 1 more damage than the Nova Weapons, which are Tarkus weapons...
 

Ormael

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Tbh I still use Nova Weapons not finding yet anything that caugh my eye but....I usualy play Techs so need use energy-powered stuff. Altought those Salamander line weapons.... I not sure I need some place to test them to full extend like...KaraQuest2 xD

Hmm ok maybe calling it throwing tantrums may been a lil too strong word.
 

Savin

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There's just not that many buyable guns on Myrellion. Most of them are gimmicky as hell, like High Damage, Low Accuracy, Low overall stance with a chance to burn, 

You may have missed the fact that Emmy got added with a shitload of new weapons, all of which are better than the Tarkus weapons. 
 

Couch

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The new KihaCorp weapons bridge the gap quite nicely at 20 damage.

It's already known that perks past level 8 have not been planned, except for level 10 which will expand the Second Shot/Strike to a full second attack and grant the other flurry.  A proposal was worked out among the forumites in Savin's thread, but no feedback was received before the site went kablooie.

It's also known that classes have very little balance at the moment.  But then, I favor an overhaul of the class system anyway.
 

Savin

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It's already known that perks past level 8 have not been planned, except for level 10 which will expand the Second Shot/Strike to a full second attack and grant the other flurry.  A proposal was worked out among the forumites in Savin's thread, but no feedback was received before the site went kablooie.

It's also known that classes have very little balance at the moment.  But then, I favor an overhaul of the class system anyway.

I wasn't really planning on giving feedback to that thread -- I wanted to see what you guys came up with without my interference past a general "here's what I want." I watched it pretty closely, though, and used some of the ideas that came up in the thread to design the next set of perks/abilities. Levels 9-11 are drafted, though Fen hasn't deigned to look through/approve them yet. No real need to, since I wouldn't expect to see more levels until mid-> next year (since Uveto is probably going to be balanced against Myrellion, and Mad Max is an alt Mhen'ga). 

TBH, all of TiTS could use a hard-core balancing pass: every enemy, item, source of income, and class/ability. The only person who could really do that is Fen, though. But hey, it's an alpha: everything is wiggy and broken forever anyway :V
 

Couch

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TBH, all of TiTS could use a hard-core balancing pass: every enemy, item, source of income, and class/ability. The only person who could really do that is Fen, though. But hey, it's an alpha: everything is wiggy and broken forever anyway :V

I was interested in what you think of my structural proposal as a means of addressing the issues with class design.
 

Savin

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I was interested in what you think of my structural proposal as a means of addressing the issues with class design.

Could you give me the highlights of that again -- or are you talking about your talent trees thing that's got a thread up now?
 

Nik_van_Rijn

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You may have missed the fact that Emmy got added with a shitload of new weapons, all of which are better than the Tarkus weapons. 

Actually, I'd like to point out a minor discrepancy their description have created.

Quote said:
The Reaper Mk.5 Laser Carbine is currently the service rifle of the Terran Coalition Expeditionary Force, the main force of Earth's military. 
13 damage total

vs

Quote said:
 Built with gunmetal gray barrels, gleaming crimson handgrips, and polished white accents, the Salamander line of weapons from KihaCorp cut an impressive figure for those lucky enough to afford them. The strength of their incandescent beams falls just short of military grade, allowing them to be sold as hunting and personal defense weapons to the greater populace. 
20 damage total

I guess just like war, war profiteers never change.  

Now I'll go back to the Corner of Shame, since it initially took 10 whole seconds for me to get the reference in the latter description.
 
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Couch

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The latter.  As a game designer I prefer to emphasize horizontal over vertical growth as a method of curbing power creep while appealing to players with completionist streaks.  The trees system would make Steele somewhat more powerful, but also easier to balance for since the majority of the growth would be in options rather than strength.
 

Savin

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Actually, I'd like to point out a minor discrepancy their description have created.
*flail*

Clearly the Mk.5 you buy is the neutered civilian version. Yeah. 

This may come as a huge surprise, but for a long time I was under the impression that, like CoC, we'd have a relatively small and narrow band of mainline shop weapons in TiTS rather than getting entire new generations of gear on each planet. This is probably why the Laser Carbine, ZK Rifle, and Hammer Pistol -- all military/duty weapons -- are on the first couple planets.
The latter

Right. So as not to further derail the conversation here, let me wander over there and make a reply. 
 

Magic Ted

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*flail*

Clearly the Mk.5 you buy is the neutered civilian version. Yeah. 

Hidden Content

Right. So as not to further derail the conversation here, let me wander over there and make a reply. 

nah man we have to make buying things kinda irrelevant and make it just a game of numbers going up
 

Couch

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But muh numbers.

In seriousness I don't mind the treadmill, but I wouldn't mind there not being one either.  I do like getting shinier gear, but I'd be open to systems of getting things that were shinier without just being bigger numbers.
 

Savin

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But muh numbers.

In seriousness I don't mind the treadmill, but I wouldn't mind there not being one either.  I do like getting shinier gear, but I'd be open to systems of getting things that were shinier without just being bigger numbers.

This, so hard. 
 

Fenoxo

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I'm a little confused over the earlier hate for the 'Volley' ability. It should stack with any extra attacks you'd getting from level ups. So if you have two ranged attacks, you get three shots AND a chance to blind. Blinded enemies miss quite a bit more (outside of tease-style lust attacks).
 

VantagePoint

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I'm a little confused over the earlier hate for the 'Volley' ability. It should stack with any extra attacks you'd getting from level ups. So if you have two ranged attacks, you get three shots AND a chance to blind. Blinded enemies miss quite a bit more (outside of tease-style lust attacks).

...Really?, I saw Rapid Fire didn't work like that and assumed assumed Volley didn't.

If that's the case... brb dropping Overcharge, lol.
 
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VerySexyGrammar

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...Really?, I saw Rapid Fire didn't work like that and assumed assumed Volley didn't.

If that's the case... brb dropping Overcharge, lol.

Yeah, I too read somewhere that Volley didn't benefit from additional attacks, but if it does, that changes things.

So while the base Volley ability is complete shit compared to Overcharge, it has the benefit of scaling with extra attacks while Overcharge doesn't? Huh... not sure what to do with this information, but I feel like it's significant.

And if it works with Rapid Fire too, the Secure MP must be some scary weapon. Four full accuracy attacks, with very respectable weapon damage! That sounds amazing.
 

Fenoxo

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Regarding lust for a lack of an item treadmill - i think that would work better in a game where you could have wildly different fighting styles depending on the weaponry you choose to use. I think Dark Souls has a mechanic like that? While I don't mind that, I don't want it for TiTS. It's a game about exploring and discovering crazy new shit, including weaponry. If you can just use the ZK rifle forever and ignore everything else, the universe falls flat.

It does seem like there's been some miscommunication between Savin and I regarding strength, though I don't mind a bunch of shitty, military grade powder-bangers being garbage compared to laser rifles that cost more than 100x as much. I'm not a gun nut, so the following analogy might be incorrect, but - an AK-47 from russian military surplus wouldn't hold up to a tricked out AR-15 (civvie version of m16) outfitted with a scope that can guarantee headshots out to one kilometer. The military units with actual funding would all be using rail rifles anyway.
 

VantagePoint

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Yeah, I too read somewhere that Volley didn't benefit from additional attacks, but if it does, that changes things.

So while the base Volley ability is complete shit compared to Overcharge, it has the benefit of scaling with extra attacks while Overcharge doesn't? Huh... not sure what to do with this information, but I feel like it's significant.

And if it works with Rapid Fire too, the Secure MP must be some scary weapon. Four full accuracy attacks, with very respectable weapon damage! That sounds amazing.

Nah, It doesn't work with Rapid Fire, I know that much.

...So Volley is completely superior to it at level 8... that's odd...
 

Fenoxo

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Regarding Tech Specs - the class was never really meant to have a melee branch. The disruptors should be very damaging, and you should either have a huge shield tank you can recharge yourself or a drone that's adding to your base damage almost every turn.
 

Savin

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Nah, It doesn't work with Rapid Fire, I know that much.

...So Volley is completely superior to it at level 8... that's odd...

Are you playing a backer build or public? Not sure if there's been a pubby update since that got changed.
 

VantagePoint

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Are you playing a backer build or public? Not sure if there's been a pubby update since that got changed.

Pubby.

Was that changed in 0.62? I saw something mentioning Rapid Fire and Volley were fixed, but people told me it was just the turn glitch Volley and Rapid Fire would cause.

I was going to mention that glitch doesn't exist in 0.61 as far as I can tell...

Hmm, so all that really needs to happen is that Overcharge and Power Strike needs adjustments to their damage percentages to account for double attack.

Regarding Tech Specs - the class was never really meant to have a melee branch. The disruptors should be very damaging, and you should either have a huge shield tank you can recharge yourself or a drone that's adding to your base damage almost every turn.

In that case, it does seems kind of odd that they have alternative abilities for melee weapons, like the 20% increase skill and double attack.

Thank you for giving us powerful Grenades, Fen-Sama, it's the most reliable way to send Doctor Lash packing :p

Regardless, thanks for answering our questions.
 
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Fenoxo

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Yeah, looking back I'm actually incorrect there. They'll need some more attention soon, I guess.

Looking into the rapid fire thing now.
 

VerySexyGrammar

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Suddenly I feel like we're basing our opinions of different abilities without actually knowing how they work exactly and how they affect each other. It's a little silly because these should be well-known at this point, but either way, I don't want to provide feedback on things I know nothing about.

Never liked Mercs, but I guess I've got some testing to do, so I'm gonna go for it. Guess I'll have to level another Tech Spec to 8 to test Volley as well. I'm a Backer so I've got 0.6.3.

Regarding Tech Specs - the class was never really meant to have a melee branch. The disruptors should be very damaging, and you should either have a huge shield tank you can recharge yourself or a drone that's adding to your base damage almost every turn.

Woah. Thanks, that's huge info. And you can't really get a better source than Fennypoo himself, so this is one piece of information I feel I can trust. I'm going to operate under the assumption that Tech Specs are Ranged only, like they originally were! Very confused about the existence of the +20% melee energy and extra melee attack perks, but I guess I can just ignore them.
 

Fenoxo

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[Used Rapid Fire]
You land a hit on the naleen with your scoped pistol! (H: -17)
You land a hit on the naleen with your scoped pistol! (H: -4)
The naleen slides out of the way of your attack, serpentine body stretching and contorting in ways far beyond human ability.
The naleen is blinded by your scoped pistol’s flashes.

Looks like three attacks (2 hits, 1 miss) + blind to me.
 

VantagePoint

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[Used Rapid Fire]
You land a hit on the naleen with your scoped pistol! (H: -17)
You land a hit on the naleen with your scoped pistol! (H: -4)
The naleen slides out of the way of your attack, serpentine body stretching and contorting in ways far beyond human ability.
The naleen is blinded by your scoped pistol’s flashes.

Looks like three attacks (2 hits, 1 miss) + blind to me.

...You mean Volley?

So I guess that changed in 0.62?
 

VerySexyGrammar

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...You mean Volley?

So I guess that changed in 0.62?

Yeeeeah... Rapid Fire doesn't have a Blind, but Volley does.

If that's Volley (which it should be given the Blind), then it indeed made three attacks and not just two, which means it stacks with additional attacks and is the superior perk (VS Overcharge, which doesn't scale up).
 
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Fenoxo

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If you think so. I still tend to lean toward overcharge. A round of unanswered damage is pro-tier.
 

Fenoxo

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Okay, checked Rapid Fire:

"You land a hit on a mimbrane with your eagle handgun! (H: -19)
The Mimbrane’s light, agile form twists and contorts in the air, effortlessly dodging around your attack.
You land a hit on a mimbrane with your eagle handgun!
Critical hit! (H: -2)
The Mimbrane’s light, agile form twists and contorts in the air, effortlessly dodging around your attack."

Three Four attacks.
 
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