Bothrioc Quadomme Suck

PalletTown

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Sep 10, 2015
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I know its weird for me to bring up an addition added years ago, but these npcs seem surgically designed to cause the game to bad end. The Quadomme block chokeholds all across the map and if you have the peace of mind trait, it only requires three more visits to bad end. Infuriatingly, no matter how you try to approach the deep queen there are always two of them that block the way. This is even after completing Ara Kei's quest. I'm just going to say it, they are as bad as the sand traps of CoC.
 
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QuietCoyote

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Aug 12, 2017
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I know its weird for me to bring up an addition added years ago, but these npcs seem surgically designed to cause the game to bad end. The Quadomme block chokeholds all across the map and if you have the peace of mind trait, it only requires three more visits to bad end. Infuriatingly, no matter how you try to approach the deep queen there are always two of them that block the way. This is even after completing Ara Kei's quest. I'm just going to say it, they are as bad as the sand traps of CoC.
Recently their spawns were changed so that they only spawn after the quest is initially triggered. The suggestion was made to rebalance them so that they are not quite a nuisance
 

ScarletteKnight

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Dec 19, 2015
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I uh, never had trouble with the Sand Traps... And while the Quadommes are certainly the toughest enemy in the game, I still haven't lost to one.
 
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Nightshade878

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Jun 9, 2017
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I also wrote the Sand Traps! Owned Pallet Nerd's whole existence.


You just write all the best content! The Sand Traps had the best sex scene in all of CoC imo (Dat kiss. *swoons* Yes please). If they don't bring them back for CoC2 I'll be greatly disappointed.
 
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Raindrops

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Jun 19, 2016
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Isn't the Peace of Mind trait the one you get from submitting to a quadomme too many times? Wouldn't it make sense to avoid letting that happen if you want to avoid being bad-ended by them?

And while I agree that their web is really annoying (Unless you max whichever stat it is that prevents you from being caught, they frequently just stunlock me through the entire fight, which is 100% fucking bullshit), once you're out of the web it's fairly easy to just use the lust combat to beat them
 
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ScarletteKnight

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Isn't the Peace of Mind trait the one you get from submitting to a quadomme too many times? Wouldn't it make sense to avoid letting that happen if you want to avoid being bad-ended by them?

And while I agree that their web is really annoying (Unless you max whichever stat it is that prevents you from being caught, they frequently just stunlock me through the entire fight, which is 100% fucking bullshit), once you're out of the web it's fairly easy to just use the lust combat to beat them
I think that it's from like, one of the M'henga species, maybe the plants? No idea, don't mess with that kinda stuff.

Even with maxed out Reflexes you can get caught. A lot of people are averse to Lust combat, I just spam one of my powers and then pop my Energy refill before I finish it, then Rest after combat.
 

Nonesuch

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Isn't the Peace of Mind trait the one you get from submitting to a quadomme too many times? Wouldn't it make sense to avoid letting that happen if you want to avoid being bad-ended by them?

Yes, you get that from the bothrioc.

I'd like to do more with that perk, actually give it the positive features it was meant to have, but it's never going to happen unfortunately.
 

Alyeska

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Nov 3, 2018
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Honestly, only time I had issues with them was when I went in at too low a level. Lust attacks work rather well, and, bugger, now I do not remember what it was, but, there was one of the ranged weapons that worked rather well against them too, but I do not remember what it was.
 

Crablord

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Jan 18, 2016
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it would upset the balance of combat to a completely overpowered degree, mostly because Nonesuch wrote it without taking game balance into consideration.
so its an entirely negative perk?
 

Nonesuch

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it would upset the balance of combat to a completely overpowered degree, mostly because Nonesuch wrote it without taking game balance into consideration.

This is the second time this week you've jumped in to snipe at me with complete bullshit, and I'd like you to stop now. I gave Peace of Mind plenty of thought, and feel what I came up with was entirely reasonable. Geddy chose not to implement it because she had some scheme of tying a whole bunch of similar perks together into one umbrella submissive ability. Which like a lot of things Geddy does, was a good idea, but nothing came of it, and it got left out in the cold. See also: Fazian's dancing instruction.
 

QuietCoyote

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correct me if i'm wrong, but Peace of Mind was supposed to be a skill gained that allows you to peacefully resolve fights, yes? as in, they would stop attacking you? yet you would win.

this is an inherently powerful trait that requires a specific route which, as per Fen's removal notes, was along the lines of the CoC transformatives of old, in that they required a player to do specific content just to have a perk that gave them a combat advantage. this goes against Fen's current design analogue for TiTS, where such combat powers should not be given.

now, if any of that is wrong, feel free to tell me so.
 

Nonesuch

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Missing from that description is that it was level-locked: so if the mob was the same level as the PC you got a 30% chance of it working, with success increasing by 10% for each level lower and decreasing by 10% for each level higher. It was also slated not to work against boss-tagged enemies. To suggest that's 'completely overpowered' is nonsense. It would have been a way to nicely get out of annoying low level combat encounters if you'd gone to the hassle of totally submitting to the bothrioc.
 
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QuietCoyote

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Missing from that description is that it was level-locked: so if the mob was the same level as the PC you got a 30% chance of it working, with success increasing by 10% for each level lower and decreasing by 10% for each level higher. It was also slated not to work against boss-tagged enemies. To suggest that's 'completely overpowered' is nonsense. It would have been a way to nicely get out of annoying low level combat encounters if you'd gone to the hassle of totally submitting to the bothrioc.
see? that's the key word, if you'd gone to the hassle of totally submitting to the bothric. it's a perk that is gated behind content, which affects nearly all combat. not to mention how much of an ass it is to code (involving complicated but not advanced mathematics), it throws off the balance of TiTS due to being a TF-based perk. again, this is why it was removed.

this, coupled with the several nerfs that each and every one of your creations have had to undergo (including the spawn rate for the Sand Traps way back in CoC) has me worried about your proposed "stalker" character that has been talked about here and there. the simple fact, by your own admission, is that you do not play the game. doing so would lessen the amount of tweaking that outside sources need to do.

edit: the only exception that comes to mind for characters of yours that haven't been nerfed were most notably Sera, a non-combat encounter
 

Nonesuch

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see? that's the key word, if you'd gone to the hassle of totally submitting to the bothric. it's a perk that is gated behind content, which affects nearly all combat. not to mention how much of an ass it is to code (involving complicated but not advanced mathematics), it throws off the balance of TiTS due to being a TF-based perk.

The hastle being they greatly increase your libido, and make you auto-submit to a bunch of stuff. It isn't a fucking downside-less cheat code. My aim wasn't to give this powerful perk off submitting to my babies, but to provide some incentive to do it, and change how such a character interacted with the game. Also it's not a TF-based perk. Fen doesn't want perks locked behind transformations, I entirely understand the reasoning for that. There are no specific transformations necessary for PoM.

again, this is why it was removed.

Again, that wasn't the reasoning Gedan gave me. It wasn't even removed! It didn't get into the game in the first place. I really resent you bustling in and officiously asserting a lot of stuff when you weren't even privy to the conversations that took place. You're working off hearsay. Be upfront about that.

this, coupled with the several nerfs that each and every one of your creations have had to undergo (including the spawn rate for the Sand Traps way back in CoC) has me worried about your proposed "stalker" character that has been talked about here and there. the simple fact, by your own admission, is that you do not play the game. doing so would lessen the amount of tweaking that outside sources need to do.

Quick rundown of all my combat TiTS encounters:

Raskvel Gang
LG-BT
Sexbots + Firewall
Plantation Quest hostiles
Bothrioc Pidemme
Bothrioc Quadomme
Cockvine
Stormlancer

A grand total of one of these has wound up nerfed. I regard one other - post-PQ Kane - as slightly problematic, but as that's an entirely optional bonus battle that is supposed to be tricky, hardly a priority to sort out. So again, stopping pulling stuff out of your arse.

I may not play the game much anymore, but one of the reasons I don't is because I usually wind up testing it quite a bit. Almost any content of mine a community coder does, I get a build first. If Fen does it I trust him enough not to. Repeatedly combing over bits of content for errors slays your desire to actually play the game, that's surely not difficult to understand.

Getting Jasvalla balanced right is a big concern for me. I want her to be challenging and relentless without being annoying. I'm working in plenty of anti-frustration mechanics for her, and she'll be relatively straightforward to remove from the game. I'll be taking advice from people involved with the game who I trust in terms of her stats and their growth. But no, really what I'm going to do is blithely throw her in and make her really OP because she's my snowflake and all I care about is winding players up. How low must your opinion of me be?
 

Crablord

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Jan 18, 2016
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so how would it work if i were to cheat it in with the save editor?
 

QuietCoyote

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The hastle being they greatly increase your libido, and make you auto-submit to a bunch of stuff. It isn't a fucking downside-less cheat code. My aim wasn't to give this powerful perk off submitting to my babies, but to provide some incentive to do it, and change how such a character interacted with the game. Also it's not a TF-based perk. Fen doesn't want perks locked behind transformations, I entirely understand the reasoning for that. There are no specific transformations necessary for PoM.

considering it is under the TF subsection within the code, along with a non-visual transformation, but that's included under semantics, so we'll pass that for now.

Again, that wasn't the reasoning Gedan gave me. It wasn't even removed! It didn't get into the game in the first place. I really resent you bustling in and officiously asserting a lot of stuff when you weren't even privy to the conversations that took place. You're working off hearsay. Be upfront about that.
again, this was documented by Fen, NOT Gedan.


Quick rundown of all my combat TiTS encounters:

Raskvel Gang
LG-BT
Sexbots + Firewall
Plantation Quest hostiles
Bothrioc Pidemme
Bothrioc Quadomme
Cockvine
Stormlancer

Raskvel Gang is a relatively low level encounter which did not require much balancing, so i'll give it a pass
LG-BT has two separate health pools, and for a Level 5 character that could be a challenge, but is again, fair
Sexbots do indeed have a peaceful resolution scene, but that had to be added at a later point
Plantation Quest hostiles are relatively fair, with the exception of the Snake Pit encounter that has no initial check to pass it
Bothric Pidemme has some problems with their lasso, but their problems are inconsequential compared to the Quaddommes who end up using it almost nonstop
the Cockvine is hard to catch which would lead to some problems for players who want the TF, but is otherwise fair with the fight
Stormlancer fight is annoying, with his jetpack and his enraged mode if you destroy said jetpack, not to mention the extremely problematic mechanic that has yet to be fully implemented because it is nearly impossible to fully support

A grand total of one of these has wound up nerfed. I regard one other - post-PQ Kane - as slightly problematic, but as that's an entirely optional bonus battle that is supposed to be tricky, hardly a priority to sort out. So again, stopping pulling stuff out of your arse.

I may not play the game much anymore, but one of the reasons I don't is because I usually wind up testing it quite a bit. Almost any content of mine a community coder does, I get a build first. If Fen does it I trust him enough not to. Repeatedly combing over bits of content for errors slays your desire to actually play the game, that's surely not difficult to understand.

Getting Jasvalla balanced right is a big concern for me. I want her to be challenging and relentless without being annoying. I'm working in plenty of anti-frustration mechanics for her, and she'll be relatively straightforward to remove from the game. I'll be taking advice from people involved with the game who I trust in terms of her stats and their growth. But no, really what I'm going to do is blithely throw her in and make her really OP because she's my snowflake and all I care about is winding players up. How low must your opinion of me be?

from what i have seen and heard of Jasvalla, nearly none of these concerns i have brought before you has been addressed, and instead have gotten worse. i highly recommend playing the game, getting a feel for these mechanics and whatnot before you make rash decisions toward balancing your characters.

and don't try to insult me, it is far beneath you.
 

PalletTown

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Sep 10, 2015
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Whoa, I think this thread needs its temperature taken down a few degrees. I made this thread almost as a vent to relieve some of my frustration at a brick wall I was facing in the game. I never meant this as a personal attack. I read some of the posts and while there are some valid points being throw out there, this thread is becoming rather heated. I apologize to everybody here. I did not mean to stir the pot.
 
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Crablord

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Jan 18, 2016
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Whoa, I think this thread needs its temperature taken down a few degrees. I made this thread almost as a vent to relieve some of my frustration at a brick wall I was facing in the game. I never meant this as a personal attack. I read some of the posts and while there are some valid points being throw out there, this thread is becoming rather heated. I apologize to everybody here. I did not mean to stir the pot.
happened to me when i asked about pumped assholes too :( ended up getting locked
https://forum.fenoxo.com/threads/what-does-a-donut-asshole-look-like.16596/
alas, i will have to find more pictures another day
 

Nonesuch

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Aug 27, 2015
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considering it is under the TF subsection within the code, along with a non-visual transformation, but that's included under semantics, so we'll pass that for now.

It's not fucking semantics! The main reason we avoid locking perks behind TFs is to avoid a situation where the PC feels they have to get specific physical transformations in order to get a powerful ability, rather than crafting the sexual avatar that they want. This is stated every single time somebody asks after CoC-like TFs that give abilities! PoM was a) not Foxfire by any stretch of the imagination and b) wasn't a physical TF at all. Are you thick, or willfully misinterpreting me?

again, this was documented by Fen, NOT Gedan.

Alright, I get what's going on now: Poor communications. Again. You've talked to Fen and he's told you one thing, I talked to Gedan and they said another. I don't know how much input Fen had on it, but Gedan certainly was the one who coded the initial Bothrioc release, so I am deferring to what she said. Ultimately I would've been happy with PoM being a purely sexual perk, and my original post in this debate was to express regret that that didn't happen, not that the combat side of it never saw the light of day. Really I don't care that much about that, until you decided to stick your oar in.

from what i have seen and heard of Jasvalla, nearly none of these concerns i have brought before you has been addressed, and instead have gotten worse. i highly recommend playing the game, getting a feel for these mechanics and whatnot before you make rash decisions toward balancing your characters.

and don't try to insult me, it is far beneath you.

We're playing chinese whispers again. I doubt you've looked at Jasvalla's doc, so who's told you anything about her? You've never 'brought concerns before me' before this thread, so I cannot very well respond to any specificity, beyond how I have already. Also do stop patronising me. I was playing this game and creating content for it before you were even aware of it.

Ultimately you've repeatedly come at me swinging, in this thread using a mild discussion about an old broken perk as a platform to criticise everything I've ever done in a completely bogus manner. You clearly have a personal problem with me, and it's difficult to not be defensive as a result.
 
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flying_moustache

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Aug 30, 2015
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@Nonesuch @QuietCoyote
I have a lot of respect for each of you and that is why I am certain, provided a cool head, you would both know that this discussion has passed what should be discussed publically on the forums.
There is clearly more reason to talk, but I want to urge you to do so in a private chat or via PM.
 
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Violent_Peace

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