I should probably said this earlier, but when I refer to a class name, Thief, Warrior, Charmer etc, I’m referring to just the base class without multi-class, if I referring to a multi-class I’ll normally say I am. Multi-class wise I do actually have a ranking system, and Fighter and Black Mage are some of the lowest on it, with Black mage only having 4.5 out of 7.5 (White Mage, Charmer, Bard, Alchemist, and the Kitsune abilities which are the .5) and Warrior having 3.5 (Thief, White Mage, Hunter, and Kitsune) Which means super-late game they suck to the point of uselessness while Thief ties with the White Mage for first having a 7.5 and being able to benefit from all classes. If you want the ranks for each of them it’s in order of worst to best, It’s Warrior with 3.5, Bard with 4, Black Mage with 4.5, Hunter with 5.5, Alchemist and Charmer with 6, and finallyWhite Mage and Thief with 7.5.
Balancing issues with COC2
- Thread starter Kius
- Start date
I should probably said this earlier, but when I refer to a class name, Thief, Warrior, Charmer etc, I’m referring to just the base class without multi-class, if I referring to a multi-class I’ll normally say I am. Multi-class wise I do actually have a ranking system, and Fighter and Black Mage are some of the lowest on it, with Black mage only having 4.5 out of 7.5 (White Mage, Charmer, Bard, Alchemist, and the Kitsune abilities which are the .5) and Warrior having 3.5 (Thief, White Mage, Hunter, and Kitsune) Which means super-late game they suck to the point of uselessness while Thief ties with the White Mage for first having a 7.5 and being able to benefit from all classes. If you want the ranks for each of them it’s in order of worst to best, It’s Warrior with 3.5, Bard with 4, Black Mage with 4.5, Hunter with 5.5, Alchemist and Charmer with 6, and finallyWhite Mage and Thief with 7.5.
The point of the classes are their passive skills, not their active skill load-out.
Your choice of skill cards should be adapted to the situation at hand and synergy between each skills and between you and your party members.
The way I see and understand it, you are given a skill card for free in some situations - and you are ment to switch them around.
The difference in classes come through their passive skills, which tailor you to a specific playstyle/role. That and your avatar picture.
Think of them less as "Fighter, Black Mage, White Mage, Thief, Charmer" and more like "Tank, Arcane DD, Healer, Phys DD, Tease DD" -
The classes have no identity beyond their roles, so there is no reason to stick to an identity.
If you strictly follow the class skills, the weakest class would be the charmer, since there are enemies that are fully imune to your skills.
If you go with the "Party Role" system, what role is the weakest mostly depends on your favorite party members.. ;-)
Your choice of skill cards should be adapted to the situation at hand and synergy between each skills and between you and your party members.
The way I see and understand it, you are given a skill card for free in some situations - and you are ment to switch them around.
The difference in classes come through their passive skills, which tailor you to a specific playstyle/role. That and your avatar picture.
Think of them less as "Fighter, Black Mage, White Mage, Thief, Charmer" and more like "Tank, Arcane DD, Healer, Phys DD, Tease DD" -
The classes have no identity beyond their roles, so there is no reason to stick to an identity.
If you strictly follow the class skills, the weakest class would be the charmer, since there are enemies that are fully imune to your skills.
If you go with the "Party Role" system, what role is the weakest mostly depends on your favorite party members.. ;-)
Wait half of the classes in your list aren't even classes
what the fuck did I just read
Thief's a great class. Most debuffs you apply last only two turns, so enemies who get two action points will shake them off before you can twist the knife... unless you have one of your guys apply a fresh debuff before that. Seeing the big numbers pop with the bonus is pleasing, although I get blue balled often when my flanking buddy can't stick the negative status on cue.
I'm currently re-doing my Thief as I completed Den of Foxes before getting mirror stance, so I couldn't get Nakano's skill. Since I enjoy the "jack of all trades, master of none" characters, I want to get all skills and see what weird stuff I can come up with.
I'm currently re-doing my Thief as I completed Den of Foxes before getting mirror stance, so I couldn't get Nakano's skill. Since I enjoy the "jack of all trades, master of none" characters, I want to get all skills and see what weird stuff I can come up with.
The OP's ranking system seems to be based upon the main classes (Black Mage, Charmer, Thief, Warrior and White Mage) individual capabilities of benefiting from other main class or even "sub-class" (which they mentioned with names such as Alchemist, Bard (?), Hunter and Kitsune) abilities.
By saying that the Warrior is 3.5 on their ranking system, it seems to mean that the Warrior can only benefit from 3.5 other main class / "sub-class" abilities (from the Hunter, Kitsune ("sub-classes" - with Kitsune apparently only counting .5), Thief and White Mage (main classes)).
Well, that's just my interpretation in any case.
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I think that when it comes to threads like these (game balance related), it's good to identify ones own bias / subjectivity, and determine whether that has factored in at all with ones stance / posts / opinions.
Basically, if you get rekt as a certain Class, it might be worth revising if that's not just because of your build, equipment, level, party or playstyle (instead of a Class just being "Underpowered"). The same would apply if you steamrolled everything in sight (above checklist, but instead to determine whether a class is "Overpowered" or not).
Not everything always has to be as black and white (pun not intended) as "Overpowered" or "Underpowered".
The sub-classes are ranked by what classes they benefit and what they can get a benefit from. While the classes are purely what they get a benefit from. Kitsune is a .5 because it’s not a actual class or sub-class, simply a large group of skills you can learn.
But it still does not really make sense, considering that the only thing set in stone are the 5 classes *passive* skills.
You can rate the passives, but aside from that there are no sub-classes. You can change your skill on the fly and even your attribute points can be changed.
Any sort of limitation is an rp decision, *not* a design decision.
I made a "Bard" character, for my last champion, who mainly uses songs and some fire themed spells. (He is based on my discord name, Emberfox)
That is a rp decision, none of this allows you to rate anything, because hte limitation I made are not part of any actual class.
The actual game design expect you to mix and match your skills, adapt to your enemies and, often enough, control your party manually.
There is no benefit to do anything else, aside from more satisfaction from an rp standpoint.
But if you want to rp a character, the background is, in my opinion, more important than the class.
If you chose Charmer, it is more important if s/he is a minstrel (buffing via magic), courtesan (lust damage), hunter (charmer + archery), scholar (charmer + magic) or a noble scion (leadertype character).
This thread is for those who want advice on min-maxing and to address balancing issues, sometimes go over OP builds. This thread isn’t about RP builds or whether or not we should. While I certainly enjoy a good RP build, there’s really no point in using them, especially since your class doesn’t define your character in this game. They only expect to mix and max in the late game. In early game you will rarely have enough money to completely multi-class, even when I was max level (I was nearing max before even leaving the first area because Black Mage takes way to long to get good skills) and beat the (current) game With my Black Mage I still didn’t get enough electrum to get all the skills.
You nearly maxed in the starting area? How long do you spend in the Old Forest? Trust me, you can survive in the Foothills with a level 2-3 Black Mage. And how do you define 'completely multi-class'? Because one day in the Old Forest or the northern area of Harvest Valley will get you enough electrum to, for example, add Cleave to a Thief hero. Are you trying to raise enough electrum to learn every skill from every skill trainer?
I don't know how you're playing the game, but it seems... not optimally effective.
The topic creator seems to have rather unusual ideas of what constitutes balance and class setups, to say nothing of making up nonexistent classes as part of some ranking system that only makes sense in their head. You can definitely have discussions about balancing in the game but... Not Like This.
First of all, there are seven classes in the game, not just five, I want people to actually remember this because it’s something a lot of you apparently don’t understand. Bard and Hunter are actual classes you can get, sure there classes you have to learn from npc’s, but there still classes. You can become a Hunter by learning from Lyra and you can become a Bard by learning from River. The only thing I said that is more head cannon then not is whether or not Kitsune skills (the skills you learn from the skill books you get from beating up the Kitsune in the Kisune village) should be counted or not as a class, since there’s almost enough of them to make up a complete class, and my answer was to count it as half of one.
No I didn’t actually max out in the starting area, I stopped grinding there after I hit level 4-5 since at that point is was better to fight harpies then bees (Why are bees so strong, I’m max level and I only one-shot them 60% of the time) then at level 7 I started to move towards the Kitsune Village finally fighting it at level 8 (barely winning and actually losing twice) then I grinded around the druids until max.
By completely Multi-class I do mean learn every skill. But even when your being nit-picky on what skills you learn (your only gonna use half of what you actually get anyway) most of the skills you want are the better ultimates or the multi-target’s and while multi-targets aren’t that expensive, ultimates are.
Level six is the max level, are you sure you are in the right thread?
No, you are a moron. Powers =/= Classes. You can learn some abilities that are deemed 'Generic' from trainers but that doesn't make them independent classes. What defines a class is that it has passive perks which apply to you regardless of what you've got equipped to your Power slots. There are exactly five sets of those for the Champion, no more and no less.
Also, it's Leorah, not Lyra. If you're going to spout bullshit you could at least try to get the names right... and River teaches Charmer skills.
And this is the point when I have to wonder what you're drinking, smoking, inhaling or injecting up your arse, since you appear to have discovered a way to gain levels that do not exist yet.
YOU KNOW TOO MUCH.
What are you talking about? there are only five. There's warrior, thief, white mage, black mage, and charmer. Bard and hunter are NOT actual classes. At all. Drop the condescending behavior, you are completely wrong.
I want whatever version you've got, because it apparently has way more content than we have. Unless they were added recently in the backer's builds, bees aren't in the game. Hornets are. They are explicitly called hornets. Level 7 and 8 aren't in yet, and I have no idea what you mean by max. The max level as of now is 6.
Are you trolling us? is that what these posts were? Because pretty much everything you said is incorrect, from claiming classes exist that actually don't, to lying about reaching levels you can't. If it's a troll, you really only accomplished coming across as ignorant and/or a liar but you got a reaction. So, task successfully failed I guess.
Every time I come into this thread I find new ways to damage a keyboard with my face.
As for the rest - yeah, only five classes and some of those classes have a sort of background or specific job that only they can do - warrior and thief can be Hunters, for example; or the mages have Acolyte and Arcanist for white and black, respectively.
I can only guess they looked at just the names of the powers you'd get from Leorah. And looking at said names they all really sound like they belong in a hunter class. But those powers are marked under 'Other' in the powers menu. Even if that weren't the case, if hunter was actually a class, wouldn't Leorah also have options to let you reclass/respec your attributes? Like every other trainer in the game? The only exception is Nakano but he's gated behind a permanent decision that alters a bunch of other things and even then it's only for one power. Hell, even going into the Powers menu you could see there's only 5 class types with 'Other' being a catch all for miscellaneous skills. And there's a slider to narrow down what level said powers are available which, surprise suprise is maxed out at 6.
Then why are there only 5 classes to select from in your poll at the beginning of this thread?
Isn't Hunter available for every class?
But to get back to the topic of this thread... Not gonna lie, I'd kinda like some of what you're smoking, Kius. Sounds like a fun time.
Okay, so I can kind of track this. You've has never played Charmer, so you feasibly wouldn't know that River's teaching Charmer abilities. Leorah's skills are not part of a 'Hunter' class but do mostly progress in the same way regular class abilities do - three new abilities at level 2, 4, and 6, plus three starter abilities at level 1. And you've acknowledged that 'Kitsune' is a headcanon class, which is just a step away from realising no it's absolutely not a class what the hell are you talking about.
But no, there are five classes (Warrior, Thief, White Mage, Black Mage, Charmer) plus a group of generic powers available from a variety of sources including tomes and Leorah. This may be a helpful source for you in the future.
Nope you've completely lost me. I have no idea how you could actually play the game and reach this conclusion.
I also don't understand the point of doing this, but also there are rich and vibrant sources of electrum farming in this game.
In conclusion, you do not seen to be the best choice to shepherd a discussion on class balance in CoC2. This thread has largely become about trying to comprehend the... idiosyncratic way you seem to be approaching the game. Also you're real snarky for someone who thinks they're at level 9 I'm just saying. Who are the druids you're grinding around? You're not back in the Old Forest are you?
Wait...are you guys NOT already a Level 30 Jedi? Am I the only one that's unlocked the BFG and Mjolnir MkVI armor so far?
No, I'm obviously a Pokémon Master with all level 255 Pokèmon. /s
I'm still looking for the Coconut of Quendor, if anyone knows how to get past the darkened room let me know.
6 8 whatever the hell they think they're at.
At the risk of incurring brain damage trying to figure out, maybe Maria the sexy mushroom lady? That is a pretty decent area to grind to level
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In this game I'd say you're better off looking for Wirt's leg, but it's your (third) leg that'll serve you into the cow level here so I maybe I'm wrong