Another Way for Elosa Ritual Request

PalletTown

Well-Known Member
Sep 10, 2015
581
877
Please let there be another way to do the Elosa ritual in the quest Over Troubled Waters that doesn't require two stat checks. I just think it unfairly and arbitrarily punishes certain builds. I cannot think of another example of a part of CoC II that was gated in such a way. Sure, some different dialogue or different options to tackle a problem, but not outright barring the PC from doing something.
 

Euthanize

New Member
Sep 24, 2024
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Given how relatively painless it is to respec I'm personally open to the idea of locking specific builds out of specific content as long as such content was uniformly distributed and made thematic sense; I do think the design in this specific case is a bit awkward, though. Because neither of the two stats being checked are the stat that's relevant to the reward for the stat check, it's really more of a 3 stat check (since only PCs with willpower and cunning can access the reward, and only PCs with presence will use it). This is not punishing some builds as much as it is locking the reward behind either one specific build (or at least builds within one drink's proximity of it) or forcing a respec.

From a gameplay optimization standpoint that wouldn't be as big a deal if it was a summon reward that demanded the PC spec in a way that a summoner would be, but that's not what's going on here. Since the spell-charm split and stat change in 0.7.33 the cunning/willpower/presence stat spread has been rendered more or less obsolete; dedicated summoners now have access to "spells" (charms) that scale on the same stat as their summon, so no longer have any additional need for willpower. Tank builds that might want a summon option by virtue of being heavily presence/leadership invested already don't need cunning, and are now actively penalized for taking it by the change to make cunning reduce base threat. Burst/nuke and buffbot PCs already had very little reason to invest in presense over agility, and taking away the HP from presense while leaving the initiative on agility (which is the reason these builds want it, the accuracy is secondary) only reinforces that.

This might just be the latest chapter in the ongoing design confusion about what, exactly, the Black Mage class (the one that nudges the player toward suboptimal cunning/willpower/presence investment) is for, since thief can do more damage with spells and charmer with summons. In the meantime I think some "raise-[stat]-to-match-[other stat]" or "maximize [stat] for dialogue and quest purposes" wearables suddenly turning up in kohaku's warehouse etc would be a relatively painless bandaid to implement.
 

Charity

Well-Known Member
May 24, 2020
144
80
"The Devs do not concern themselves with the opinion of non-Black Mage players"

View attachment 39891
Certain underwater dungeon with 2 (or was it 3) CUNNING check wich is not something pure Black Mage will have anyway (or anyone who aren't pure Thief). Even Spellblade whp permanently under Cunning achocol... Until they start making Juice and don't use Cunning stat at all lol.
 

LeDoraggo

Well-Known Member
Mar 9, 2025
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Certain underwater dungeon with 2 (or was it 3) CUNNING check wich is not something pure Black Mage will have anyway (or anyone who aren't pure Thief). Even Spellblade whp permanently under Cunning achocol... Until they start making Juice and don't use Cunning stat at all lol.
"The Devs are aware that Cunning is not the only stat in the game, but choose to ignore said fact"
 

Charity

Well-Known Member
May 24, 2020
144
80
Okay I kinda did in yesterday and now checked wiki and

Why. It's. Always. Cunning.

It seems so artificial atp. Juiced is just BETTER than Cunning Maxed. Where is 0 reason to use Stat Max, BUT for those checks. Pure Black Mage and Thief? Okay I see it. Never played bard but they migh have Cunning spec too?

Warrior and White Mages tho? Or some sorta spellblade who always see Cunning as trash stat since alcohol and then Juice exist. And you need Cunning to basicaly do WHOLE ritual and Willpower, actual magic aligned stat is only used in Binding? And being Mage half CUNNING needed? Actually wat is this.

Dangeon that I mentioned had Cunning checks cuz it had TRAPS. Not magic related things.
I would love to hear how Cunning of all stats help with whole ritual BUT binding.