An actual dragon TF with a sidequest?

[dwagon]

Hey, guys! I have an idea! *stop*  *see "I have an idea-" Stop. Read this first. from Ted*.


Nevermind, well, I might as well post it here. I'd love to see this kind of things in the game but I'm definitely all but a skilled writer. It does not prevent me from trying, though, that's why, well I tried to do things and it's probably very crappy but I see it as a good exercise to improve my skills at writing things in English and, even at writing things in general in fact.


I'm probably not going to continue that to a point where it becomes a high-quality dragon-TF+side quest. Because first it's probably never going to be high quality at all anyway. And also because, what I want to see is definitely more than what I can tackle (not a lot but I'm also extremely lazy, wich does not help me to get things done).


So hey why posting something that is probably never going to get finished you ask me? well because I'd love to hear your thought on the topic and to know how I can learn to write better (be it grammar, vocabulary choice, general phrase construction, general coding, general story construction, everything really)


so here we are: here is what I'd like to see as a fantasy-Dragon TF in a science fiction universe (namely TiTSverse)


Spoil: no smut included. I'll have to learn how to write normal things first but there are some TODOs for that!


Bonus point : if someone find the Earthbound reference.


link to what I'd like to see: http://pastebin.com/GG1uR997

 

[Etis]

Hm... Dragon TF would be nice to have, but that's definitely not the way I'd do it. Something like the civilian version of supersoldier project, likely. Or the original one, but it would require some actually working perks, and some reason for you to get it since it would not fit the general mod store.

 

[dwagon]

Hm... Dragon TF would be nice to have, but that's definitely not the way I'd do it. Something like the civilian version of supersoldier project, likely. Or the original one, but it would require some actually working perks, and some reason for you to get it since it would not fit the general mod store.





 






 







 

It'd definitely be more lore friendly. However, I just can't think of dragons as being the results of a military experience. It would remove the whole spirit of beings that should be fearsome and mysterious if the story is simply "yeah, military grade performance enhancing drug, the one who designed it was a bit nerdy and definitely into dragon sex. We still can't explain the dick part otherwise". It's how most TF are made but I also want something more for my favorite morph type :3 (like everyone, I guess?)

 

[Milkman]

Heh TiTS is a fairly dystopian future filled with giant souless mega corporations like Xenogen. It makes sense for furry TF mods to be souless cash grabs. The furry comunity tends to be willing to splurge on buying stuff. (Art comissions, bad dragon toys, fursuits, and myriad other things)  so the mega corps likely see them as cash cows. Heh in the case of Bovinium and Minocharge fairly literally at that. 


Given the popularity of dragons in furry fiction. That would almost certainly be one of the first cosmetic gene mods developed as soon as they mastered the art of generating reptilian features and splicing them with traits from unrelated species. There's just too much potential money from bringing such a product to market for it not to be a thing. 


The Gryvians as a fairly draconic seeming corewards species were likely used as a base template for said TF. From there there tweaks were likely applied. As for super soldiers. Tbh I feel like the notion of dragon shock troops would fall to the wayside of cybernetics and psionic augmentation. The fact that psionics are end game content makes it even more likely that its the sort top secret military asset that the setting's governments woukd be trying to develop and refine. 

 

[Ormael]

As for Dragons and Supersoldiers...it could be possible that humanity during some earlier rushes found on some forgotten planet small peice of organic material and DNA analize showed that species it belong ed to is in few area better than most things humanity can have. So then naturaly replicating this piece of dna and trying add it to "another" supersoldier project that usualy humanity always have at least one at time it could be that final effect turn into something close to dragon from legends.


So then you got fact it was used to make supersoldier and second that this space dragons race was something on higher stage of evolution than msot species humanity meet so far.

 

[dwagon]

Heh TiTS is a fairly dystopian future filled with giant souless mega corporations like Xenogen. It makes sense for furry TF mods to be souless cash grabs. The furry comunity tends to be willing to splurge on buying stuff. (Art comissions, bad dragon toys, fursuits, and myriad other things)  so the mega corps likely see them as cash cows. Heh in the case of Bovinium and Minocharge fairly literally at that. 


Given the popularity of dragons in furry fiction. That would almost certainly be one of the first cosmetic gene mods developed as soon as they mastered the art of generating reptilian features and splicing them with traits from unrelated species. There's just too much potential money from bringing such a product to market for it not to be a thing. 


The Gryvians as a fairly draconic seeming corewards species were likely used as a base template for said TF. From there there tweaks were likely applied. As for super soldiers. Tbh I feel like the notion of dragon shock troops would fall to the wayside of cybernetics and psionic augmentation. The fact that psionics are end game content makes it even more likely that its the sort top secret military asset that the setting's governments woukd be trying to develop and refine. 





 

Very true but it looks like no company managed to create a dragon TF so far in this case : ^)

 

[Milkman]

Very true but it looks like no company managed to create a dragon TF so far in this case : ^)

Heh it's just a matter if it needing yobbe written. But yeah half the work has already been done for them with Dracoguard. They just need to strip out the mandatory  feminization / hermification aspect.  The digitigrade flag also probably needs to be added to their legs. Hmm if mysticality is absolutely necessary it might be best to have the dragon TF be one of the TFs that can unlock psionics. Dragon fire could be considered pyrokenisis. 


But in that case then the true dragon TF definitely won't be coded in for quite some time. A lesser wyvern/ drake TF might serve to fill the niche in the  earlier portions of the game though at leaat untill the means of buying psionics becomes accessible to the PC. 

 

[Etis]

Heh it's just a matter if it needing yobbe written. But yeah half the work has already been done for them with Dracoguard. They just need to strip out the mandatory  feminization / hermification aspect.  The digitigrade flag also probably needs to be added to their legs. Hmm if mysticality is absolutely necessary it might be best to have the dragon TF be one of the TFs that can unlock psionics. Dragon fire could be considered pyrokenisis. 


But in that case then the true dragon TF definitely won't be coded in for quite some time. A lesser wyvern/ drake TF might serve to fill the niche in the  earlier portions of the game though at leaat untill the means of buying psionics becomes accessible to the PC. 






 

Or just separate cosmetical TF and one which actually gives benefits.

 

[Milkman]

Hmm I feel like only the cosmetic mod should match up directly with the Human/ Terran ideal of what dragons are/ generaly look like. (Since that version would be tailored by corporations to cater to furry expectations.) The psionic version of the dragon mod on the other hand should probably have more of an alien/ Sci Fi twist to it, perhaps have it based on a dragon that looks like this? Something unearthly (To reflect just how far out of their way they've had to go in terms of appropriating and splicing alien genetics in order to create the more powerful dragon mod)

 

[dwagon]

Or just separate cosmetical TF and one which actually gives benefits.

I'd never use the "cosmetical only" version but it's definitely a necessary one. However, it's also not enough and there has to be a version with some lore/mystery behind. The fact that it gives actual benefits is secondary.


@Milkman I love the image, where did you find it?

 

[Etis]

I'd never use the "cosmetical only" version but it's definitely a necessary one. However, it's also not enough and there has to be a version with some lore/mystery behind. The fact that it gives actual benefits is secondary.






 

I have the same feelings for kitsune, but for now, I've limited my work to cosmetic part, leaving possible upgrade to the possible future expansion (with the idea of being already a kitsune-morph to be a pre-requisite).

 

[Milkman]

I'd never use the "cosmetical only" version but it's definitely a necessary one. However, it's also not enough and there has to be a version with some lore/mystery behind. The fact that it gives actual benefits is secondary.


@Milkman I love the image, where did you find it?

Heh I just googled "Space Dragons" 

 

[Ethereal Dragon]

I'd never use the "cosmetical only" version but it's definitely a necessary one. However, it's also not enough and there has to be a version with some lore/mystery behind. The fact that it gives actual benefits is secondary.


@Milkman I love the image, where did you find it?

Heh I just googled "Space Dragons" 

It's from Guild Wars 2. It's a Raid boss basically

 

[Ormael]

Nice raid boss...but how it ended poping out when looking for space dragon...well not sure in what raid he's found so maybe it was the reason.


On Dragon TF things; pirokinesis or cryokinesis so possibility to breathe ice too. Not sure if putting under psionic paradigm acid breth would be best idea...we not even have adic type of dmg I think.


Making wyvern TF would be not bad idea. Some like get to proper TF for dragon after using 1-2 other TF items first. And thus it could allow for more drastic changes ort other benefits if it would be locked already after chain of specific TF to treach there. Then again it may srew up game as all PC's and they grandmothers would be going for dragon TF effects -_-'

 

[Karretch]

Scrap any hope about a "combat form" because Fen has explicitly stated he doesn't want that shit because then people feel they need to have specific TFs to min-max combat at the detriment of other TFs being used. They only combat perks/effects that get in will be minor like the Red Myr lust venom on melee attacks doing at most ~7 points of lust damage. By the time you'd have won via just lust bites you'd have melee'd them into submission multiple times.

 

[Milkman]

Nice raid boss...but how it ended poping out when looking for space dragon...well not sure in what raid he's found so maybe it was the reason.


On Dragon TF things; pirokinesis or cryokinesis so possibility to breathe ice too. Not sure if putting under psionic paradigm acid breth would be best idea...we not even have adic type of dmg I think.


Making wyvern TF would be not bad idea. Some like get to proper TF for dragon after using 1-2 other TF items first. And thus it could allow for more drastic changes ort other benefits if it would be locked already after chain of specific TF to treach there. Then again it may srew up game as all PC's and they grandmothers would be going for dragon TF effects -_-'

There is already a corrosive damage type in game. But Yeah as for a combat form I'm thinking it shouldn't specifically grant breath weapons/ ny special perks. Just make the dragon TF one of several other ways to unlock psionics. As long as pyrokinesis and cryokinesis are potential options in the arsenal that all psions have then everything works out. 

 

[Ormael]

Psionics can make Pc deal any type of 'elemental' dmg actualy since it easy to use explanation it's one of type of -nesis to attack with this type of dmg.


As for perks that gives some battle edge to PC it won;t happen anyway in TiTS. If it would then we would have few of them already. So it may be looking like dragon-PC is breathing fire but it will be at best harmless thing that can't be used in combat as otherwise devs will not let such rule breaking TF (with real combat usefull perks/effects) into the game.

 

[Etis]

Psionics can make Pc deal any type of 'elemental' dmg actualy since it easy to use explanation it's one of type of -nesis to attack with this type of dmg.


As for perks that gives some battle edge to PC it won;t happen anyway in TiTS. If it would then we would have few of them already. So it may be looking like dragon-PC is breathing fire but it will be at best harmless thing that can't be used in combat as otherwise devs will not let such rule breaking TF (with real combat usefull perks/effects) into the game.





 






 

Actually, I have an idea for a workaround for this rule. Why not a racially locked gear? One which would "unlock your abilities". We already have some gear with special skills (bows, goo armor).

 

[Karretch]

Actually, I have an idea for a workaround for this rule. Why not a racially locked gear? One which would "unlock your abilities". We already have some gear with special skills (bows, goo armor).

Because that shoe-horns TF routes and gamestyles, exactly like what happened in CoC and what Fen wants to avoid in TiTS. Goo armor is being strictly balanced, bow is unlockable by all without anything other than a bow and avoidable by those who don't care/want. Locking something behind racial TFs some may not want, even if only temporary, is to be avoided at all costs.

 

[Ormael]

yeah well if it would be gear then "everybody" technicaly can wear it no matter what body shape they got after all those TF's. But will it be not lil weird in some body combinations? Or it will be item that can be with amost not any changes use by everyone. So armor type could be hardest unless it will be liquid-ish like grey goo is now.

 

[Etis]

yeah well if it would be gear then "everybody" technicaly can wear it no matter what body shape they got after all those TF's. But will it be not lil weird in some body combinations? Or it will be item that can be with amost not any changes use by everyone. So armor type could be hardest unless it will be liquid-ish like grey goo is now.






 

Actually, the point is in not being able to use it without a proper body. Though coding it would require few dirty hacks.

Because that shoe-horns TF routes and gamestyles, exactly like what happened in CoC and what Fen wants to avoid in TiTS. Goo armor is being strictly balanced, bow is unlockable by all without anything other than a bow and avoidable by those who don't care/want. Locking something behind racial TFs some may not want, even if only temporary, is to be avoided at all costs.






 

Goo armor is hell op (and becomes more and more so with expansions), and not everyone wants to wear someone sentient as clothes. Privacy, dammit. And this is not "locking something behind". This is "TF which has its own playstyle", but blocks normal playstyle. Like bows, actually. Normal skills are mostly not working with them. I think the point is not in locking behind, but in making it OP by adding options above normal. In CoC, you had no reason NOT to use TFs with perks aside roleplay, since they had no side effects. But if you'll have to also sacrifice equipment slots for it...

 

[dwagon]

The easiest way to add a combat ability without breaking the game is to

1.     Make it an active because passives are OP
   
2.     Make it underwhelming so no one would spend a turn using this ability  
   

But that's definitely not how I'd do it. If you want to give the player a super-powerful breath attack that can literally roast alive 8 people at once, well tell the player that's what he did. It's a text based game. You can do anything even "combat cutscenes". So here is how I'd like to see a breath attack implemented :


Dragon breath execute. When an opponent is low enough (and by low enough it means guaranteed to die on the next basic strike) replace the attack button by "dragon breath" which trigger a special scene description where you roast your opponent and a big part of the ground around him.


It can also be done with red myr venom. Instead of a crappy passive, you can make it a lust finisher you can use when your opponent is almost defeated by lust.


Those special scenes would'nt have to proc for every enemy in the game nor every time but having them would be really nice and totally neutral in term of game balance.

 

[Ormael]

The easiest way to add a combat ability without breaking the game is to

1.     Make it an active because passives are OP
   
2.     Make it underwhelming so no one would spend a turn using this ability  
   

It can also be done with red myr venom. Instead of a crappy passive, you can make it a lust finisher you can use when your opponent is almost defeated by lust.

Somehow when you named 2 ways I keep think...Red Myr Venom. It really looks like Fen tried his best to make people not rage hard that there is NONE racial related passives/actives at all and then wanted to stick to his policy of not making it so good it will be must-get effect for all CP and they grandmothers. So now we got it and I sometimes really tempted to pick it for PC if not it been like TamWolf case. It sound cool and so on but when it come to actual gameplay it just cosmetics that will make me specialy go ant way to have it.


Having some venom roducing glands that will make it only need to go ant to attain them then allow PC posses this always could be interesting. Such way I trying make some things in my CoC mod...some perks that PC will spend points lvl-up perk points allow use some of racial perks without been said race.

 

[Karretch]

Thing about Red Myr venom is you don't need to stay a Red Myr to have it, same with Honeypot perk. I may have been to outspoken earlier, combat perks might happen, but only if they are drastically ineffective and not locked behind being a certain race. I still highly doubt you'll get your "combat dragon" tf alongside or even separate from a cosmetic one.

 

[Etis]

Thing about Red Myr venom is you don't need to stay a Red Myr to have it





1

Actually, this is exactly the problem. Because if you are a perfectionist, you just have to go through Myr TF for it. Like the way you just need to get Dragon Breath in CoC. The problem with other perks was in forcing you to have a specific form. You 'll likely want to play CoC as a naga since constriction is OP and you have no side effects from it, even if you are not into half-snakes. But if it would also have side effects (like taking equipment slots), it would be just another option. Want to play as scale-armored dragon with fire breath? You'll have to give up an ability to wear any armor. Or wear armor and have no bonus from scales. Want to use fire breath? You need some trinket in a weapon slot.

 

[Karretch]

Actually, this is exactly the problem. Because if you are a perfectionist, you just have to go through Myr TF for it. Like the way you just need to get Dragon Breath in CoC. The problem with other perks was in forcing you to have a specific form. You 'll likely want to play CoC as a naga since constriction is OP and you have no side effects from it, even if you are not into half-snakes. But if it would also have side effects (like taking equipment slots), it would be just another option. Want to play as scale-armored dragon with fire breath? You'll have to give up an ability to wear any armor. Or wear armor and have no bonus from scales. Want to use fire breath? You need some trinket in a weapon slot.

A "perfectionist" already knows they'll have to do something they don't want to have everything they do. The way it's meant to be in TiTS is cosmetic to keep people away from only playing one way. Which is exactly why venom is basically useless, the uselessness makes it essentially cosmetic. Everything is created in the idea of not forcing people to do things they don't want. A combat perk that is actually useful being locked behind something, especially something that restricts other things like armor or such, is counter to the goals Fen has put forward. Remove those restrictions then everyone grabs it anyways and we're back to the issue with CoC of everyone going that TF route just to have it.


In short, stuff locked behind other stuff with restrictions is bad for TiTS because that's not the way it's meant to be.

 

[Etis]

A "perfectionist" already knows they'll have to do something they don't want to have everything they do. The way it's meant to be in TiTS is cosmetic to keep people away from only playing one way. Which is exactly why venom is basically useless, the uselessness makes it essentially cosmetic. Everything is created in the idea of not forcing people to do things they don't want. A combat perk that is actually useful being locked behind something, especially something that restricts other things like armor or such, is counter to the goals Fen has put forward. Remove those restrictions then everyone grabs it anyways and we're back to the issue with CoC of everyone going that TF route just to have it.


In short, stuff locked behind other stuff with restrictions is bad for TiTS because that's not the way it's meant to be.






 

It looks like we have fundamental disagreement in understanding the way it meant to be.

 

[Nik_van_Rijn]

Somewhere not too deep in the annals of this forum's history there is a topic in which Savin laid out his plans for new and improved system for perks and abilities in TiTS. One of my favorite parts about it was the idea of slots for abilities, which would include slots reserved for racial specials that we would be able to swap without any racial restrictions. Balancing all of those class and racial abilities against each could be a nightmare, but at least both the problem of forcing PC towards certain TFs and of uncontrollable power creep would be averted.

 

[Ormael]

Thing about Red Myr venom is you don't need to stay a Red Myr to have it, same with Honeypot perk. I may have been to outspoken earlier, combat perks might happen, but only if they are drastically ineffective and not locked behind being a certain race. I still highly doubt you'll get your "combat dragon" tf alongside or even separate from a cosmetic one.

If they drastically ineffective then I would faster sent it to puratory of hellfire than touch. Or it would be like licking sweet throu the glass -_-'


Plus Dragon breath in CoC wasn't gated behind dragon Tf as much as only to get it PC need to have dragonscore() >= 4 and afterward this perk stayed pernamently with chara letting it be even shitting rainbows unicorn that breath out wide cons of dragon fire.


That way made perk I wouldn't mind to see in TiTS too.