2017 XXX-Mas contest Submission compil and ADVICES.

Gardeford

Scientist
Creator
Aug 26, 2015
483
407
Tbf yeah i feel like at best its discouraging to new writers who see their things marked as yellow or red. Things that are very short don't need the kind of table of contents and such you're looking for, so your grading just comes across as personal preference, which doesn't really belong in an aggregated list of entries. It might fine to mention ones that arent gdocs or that are split into multiples, but the distinction between yellow/blue/green is entirely unneeded.
 

HugsAlright

Pets'R'Us
Creator
Jul 11, 2016
973
2,328
hugs would need one too and add a table of content to upgrade to green (or just a longer summary/overview without a table of content).

HOW IS A SINGLE, SOLID SCENE WITH NO BREAKS OR BUTTONS SUPPOSED TO HAVE A TABLE OF CONTENTS?

ALSO THAT NOTE AT THE TOP IS FOR CODERS. IT'S NOT A SUMMARY. THE SUMMARY WAS IN THE POST I MADE.

So, why don't you make like your reading comprehension and not exist.
 
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Kirorororo

Well-Known Member
Oct 6, 2017
177
57
Anyway, I removed the color marking since you guys were pretty much all disagreeing with it. Pointing out the standards never were hidden, I did say it was about format from the start and not content which means I did not look at grammar and did not even pretend to take it into account. Yes It was unnecessary, yes it was based on the grid at the base of this thread, yes it would have been very open to argumentation about which one were too high rated and which ones were too low rated and modifications would have been made no worries intended.

"Most of all, you definitely don't want to say to a popular and very talented writer "Don't get too cocky." when they don't live up to your hidden rubric. It makes you look incredibly cocky yourself."
-Not a hidden rubric, it was explicit in the first comment from the start. I do recognise I definitely needed to check it again to fix a big part of the notes that were innacurate, I should've not published these without having them be double checked in a more rested case.
-I am cocky, but not so much that I criticise ascerbly the person who rated my submission if I get a near perfect score, certainly not without having asked WHY first and then argued about that what and how and could it be changed first. Again I did not look at the CONTENT, ONLY the format, note that I did not count grammar as part of the format. Since you guys were accredited creators, it is very likely I did not want to favoritise you to newcomers. I probably was harsher in your ratings as a consequence of it. Dear @HugsAlright , pointing this out as you just did I now see why you were justifiably unhappy with what I said. Had you pointed it out in the previous comment I assure you I would have took a look at that more toroughly and probably would I have not thought(again my fault there) that you hadn't done any summary for no reason. I will remove everything I said, thought I leave it in the chat as proof of my guilt and harsh unnecessary and uninformed argument.
- @Aullama , Not trying to influence the contest, Savin and Fen are actually busy doing lots of work so I doubt they give a shit about what I wrote anyway, if at all they'd be pissed at me, actually thought it'd kinda be ignored anyway, guess I was wrong, I should've taken more time to do a proper and fair review, going to the points individually with each person.

Overall I will say the following: It was completely unnecessary of me to do that format based ranking (and counting triple since it was public) and I do apologise to everyone that were gueninely unpleased, harmed or felt any form of distress or anger because of me. My own rating system had flaws, which I would have simply liked for them to be pointed out. Some of them were as Night Trap stated: "One has an entire page with no line breaks or indentations.", and for which I gave a perfect format score to my own fault it is. I don't really ever get angry over stuff, at most I get seriously pissed, not at the person but at the things they said, though it's clear I did not think the reaction would be immediatly negative. Again, I apologise, Fen and Savin are the one with any real decisionnal power.
 
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Gardeford

Scientist
Creator
Aug 26, 2015
483
407
Now since this turned into kind of a witch hunt I dont think you meant anything bad by it, it just ended up feeling kind of out of place given the nature of the contest and how it ended up looking outwardly. I did like the bare minimum of "Is this submission christmas appropriate and/or complete"
 

HugsAlright

Pets'R'Us
Creator
Jul 11, 2016
973
2,328
Dear @HugsAlright , pointing this out as you just did I now see why you were justifiably unhappy with what I said. Had you pointed it out in the previous comment I assure you I would have took a look at that more toroughly and probably would I have not thought(again my fault there) that you hadn't done any summary for no reason. I will remove everything I said, thought I leave it in the chat as proof of my guilt and harsh unnecessary and uninformed argument.

Thanks.

It wasn't so much the rating as much as how condescending the whole main post made it out to be, with other friends and I who worked very hard on our submissions to get them done on time getting stuff like "bare minimum" and "good for a beginner". You can probably imagine how that'd seem like an insult coming from some random forum-goer to someone who's been writing for TiTS for over a year.

I may have been a little harsh with my last message what with the ratings and "don't get cocky" being perceived as insults. If they weren't meant to be, I apologize.

Also my submission is 9 pages long, not 5. >.>
 
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Zat

Well-Known Member
Dec 18, 2016
221
80
Lithuania
If it makes you feel better, I will say that I do like that you made a comprehensive list of entries for easy access to submissions for anyone that wants to read them and set up some basic rules like the entry needs to be finished before submitting.
 
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Kirorororo

Well-Known Member
Oct 6, 2017
177
57
Thanks.

It wasn't so much the rating as much as how condescending the whole main post made it out to be, with other friends and I who worked very hard on our submissions to get them done on time getting stuff like "bare minimum" and "good for a beginner".

I may have been a little harsh with my last message what with the ratings and "don't get cocky" being perceived as insults. If they weren't meant to be, I apologize.

Also my submission is 9 pages long, not 5. >.>

Yeah, ok, I actually gave "good for a beginner" comments and alike for new writers to encourage them because their's a LOT of newcomer this contest. (note that it did not mean that anyone experienced did a beginner's job, just that for those for which it was a first submission, it was encouraging(to see they looked at at least some of the forum's guidelines and rules before submitting)/ that for any other submitter, they simply didn't have that much time to care for trivialities and did "the bare minimum" requested in the forum's guides, because it's clear you guys don't need to prove yourselves (except to sav and fen like everyone I guess). In other words, that you(generic plural) did your job properly, without adding the all the fancy details, which, for any reason is fine, I just thought it was a bit sad because I really wanted to see a summary of any kind coming from people with a few different submissions behind. Then there was the just blue comment and I thought that was pretencious (only considering you didn't ask why or something like that at that point, so I answered with don't get too cocky (which at first I intended to add a small few words to let you know I was serious but it was not to be taken personnally) like if you thought you deserved green by default because you did works for TITS before (for which you did deserve credits for those submissions but that part seemed too obvious to mention). On another note, I often tend to not see a random post I made from other angles and how they're perceived normally I tend to think if their's a misunderstanding/unhapiness, surely I'll be told what aspect of it was at fault.


"You can probably imagine how that'd seem like an insult coming from some random forum-goer to someone who's been writing for TiTS for over a year."
Yes I see how, because you feel like you need to be recognised for your past works like everyone would and it's not for others to shit on the status you worked hard to get, that goes both ways. We're all at different points you were at some time, we're all (other TITS writters) working hard to get were you're at but it'll take a lot of time for us to catch back with people that discovered it a longer time ago.

Be it noted that everything said above was written at late hours of the morning of someone that didn't sleep, it is open to any criticism or modification should the way I phrased something make it say something I meant in a different way.

Anyhow, on a totally different tone, for the size of the doc, it's likely you either had it as a wip when I added it or that the 9 pages hadn't all loaded when I looked at the size of the document, I'll fix it.
 
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wallpaper

Well-Known Member
Nov 29, 2017
141
62
I think that next year it would be nice for people to fill out a form when submitting:

Username:
Link:
# Pages:
Kinks:
Brief Overview:

I liked the links to the parser and writing guide! It would be nice to repeat the deadline in the first post--just for the new and overwhelmed.

I absolutely think that grading should not be involved from the community, regardless of if it is one person or multiple folks. Offering advice is great, especially to get up to minimum standards. Unless you have word of Fen to back up the grade though, isn't that giving participants a skewed view? It certainly created contention.
 

Kirorororo

Well-Known Member
Oct 6, 2017
177
57
I'll try to speak with Fen about establishing better and more official information in the original posts of the next contest (if there's one, we never know for sure). They'd need to be and would be approved by Fen.

The number of pages would probably not be asked because that is always subject to change.
It would be nice for the WIP or Complete status to be displayed inside the document.
Title:RAWWWWWWW, it's really handicapping for the submitter who doesn't have a non generic one from the moment there are 2 in the contest, +we never know how to refer to it.
Yadayadayada, I have to go to my chineese exam, see you later!
I'll also try to be neutral next contest, by that I mean I won't directly give a hand to people but I'll refer them to the information. (note that if the contest has a more tempting theme then I might submit stuff myself.)
 

wallpaper

Well-Known Member
Nov 29, 2017
141
62
The ask is more for if I see someone else posting an entry, it's nice to know page count, status, kinks and overview in a short form way before I open the doc. There was a deluge at the end and I wound up not reading many of them. It's nice to sort out potential favs and competition, lol.
 

Sparr

Member
Oct 21, 2017
10
4
@Kirorororo

Just a quick update: My submission at number 22 officially has 27 pages, contrary to the 22 that you have listed up there.
 

Dolphi

Well-Known Member
Dec 12, 2017
136
121
25
The ask is more for if I see someone else posting an entry, it's nice to know page count, status, kinks and overview in a short form way before I open the doc. There was a deluge at the end and I wound up not reading many of them. It's nice to sort out potential favs and competition, lol.
Yeah an overview would be nice. Maybe it might be too much to ask, since there are 60+ entries, but a small sentence going along with each entry would be really nice.
 
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wallpaper

Well-Known Member
Nov 29, 2017
141
62
Like, max one sentence. An elevator pitch would be swingin' in a concatenation of all these entries into one list.
 

Night Trap

Scientist
Creator
Oct 31, 2016
294
765
"You can probably imagine how that'd seem like an insult coming from some random forum-goer to someone who's been writing for TiTS for over a year."
Yes I see how, because you feel like you need to be recognised for your past works like everyone would and it's not for others to shit on the status you worked hard to get, that goes both ways. We're all at different points you were at some time, we're all (other TITS writters) working hard to get were you're at but it'll take a lot of time for us to catch back with people that discovered it a longer time ago. I guess you can probably imagine how being called a random forum goer by someone with a creator status would give it a look of being cocky, I might be just one forum goer, but most people on the forum are here because we've played the game over and over and we LIKE the game, many of us are on patreon, many of us knew the game long before we joined the forums, some of us comment everywhere and others only on specific things, many of us are writting our first big submission or have submitted one in the past, all to say that it's not because we're just random forum goers that we're immune to wanting a certain recognition which makes it bad when we're disregarded. It's that feeling when someone is graded so above you that you don't deserve an explanation of why, it doesn't seem like they don't have the time, just that you're nothing to them. The more you care about the game and its community, the more it hurts.

Be it noted that everything said above was written at late hours of the morning of someone that didn't sleep, it is open to any criticism or modification should the way I phrased something make it say something I meant in a different way.

Anyhow, on a totally different tone, for the size of the doc, it's likely you either had it as a wip when I added it or that the 9 pages hadn't all loaded when I looked at the size of the document, I'll fix it.
I can't speak too much for Hugs personally, but I think he meant less that he's owed more respect for his title and more that someone with no roles or anything seemingly passing very condescending judgement on proven writers is insulting because it provokes a knee-jerk "Who are you to be saying this? On what authority do you judge this wanting when it's up to the same standards as what I've written that has been very widely praised?" Again, I don't really want to put words in HugsAlright's scary, 2-D mouth, but that is certainly what my own reaction was.

I was raised to be automatically distrustful of authority. I don't think a title inherently means anything. It's just an indication of either what a person did in the past, or what they should be doing now. As a result, I would not involve my Creator role in any discussion that didn't directly involve it. If someone said I was a shitty writer and my father smelled of elderberries, my first reaction would never be "Excuse me? Have you not noticed that my name is purple?!?" It'd probably be something like "Hey, fuck you. Eat my ass!" because I'm a very angry person for the next month or so.

What I'm trying to say with all these ramblings is: Don't let the purple be something you chase, because there's no substance to it at all. It's nice to have recognition, but once you have purple, you have that recognition in perpetuity. At that point, expecting everyone or even most everyone to like and respect you is a little masturbatory. You can crown yourself in laurels continuously, but you have to appreciate that not everyone's going to be there for your coronation, and you've got to keep going and doing shit worthy of more laurels, because you can't rest on them forever.

I personally have no idea what you've written and have never seen your work. I assume when talking to people who have done nothing for TiTS that has actually made it into the game (which I don't know if you have gotten something accepted or not) that the person in question is a novice writer. I (usually) try to help them in ways that I assume a novice would need help with, which can often come off as very condescending and infantilizing. I'm aware everyone's had a different journey to writing, but I don't know how much they've done outside of this community, at least until I've interacted more directly with them. Until that point, they're just a random forum goer to me, and that's not really an insult (except by association, hahaha.) It's just the only thing I know that person as until I speak with them personally. Don't let the fact that writers call you a random forum goer get you down. If you're not churning out new content all the time, even a writer is just a random forum goer. He's just one with a small fan club.
 

Kirorororo

Well-Known Member
Oct 6, 2017
177
57
Note: it's not really about getting the purple (kinda looks fushia actually :eek:) for recognition, just about taking the time to meet people if you have an issue with them. I won't go much more into that again but I love the contents you guys write, it's never about if you've written something cool, if it's been done right or not, but sometimes about maybe how you could make this or that specific submission (let's not say even better because that could imply connotations but you get the idea). It's easier to come back to a submission with any kind of summary or overview and remember exactly what it was about and what happenned in the scenes rather than to do the same with just a title and that really was all it was about in these cases, no authority, no decisional power, just making sure the works you appreciate are as complete as can be. After that it's up to the writter to decide if it's a real problem or not, if he wants to do something about it or not, if he wants to care about the comments or not and etc.
If he feels the thing was unjustified in any way, they may feel free to ask for answers or/and for the removal of it. Which there are no problems with. Any way, I'll close this subject in this thread because it's not really relevant to the goal of it, if you want to speak more about this it'll be in pm's.
 

Kuro_K

New Member
Dec 14, 2017
2
1
39
Drama aside, given that it was my first submission of any kind I'd be curious to see any critique/criticism/rating of my entry.
 
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wallpaper

Well-Known Member
Nov 29, 2017
141
62
Do we get feedback? I presumed they wouldn't have time to fully read, let alone grade or offer advice/crit.
 

SheepPun

Well-Known Member
Apr 30, 2016
133
566
Do we get feedback? I presumed they wouldn't have time to fully read, let alone grade or offer advice/crit.
If it's like the Halloween contest then there'll be minimum to none. Last time entries got a short comment with their grade though. I chalk this up to time restraints.
 
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