Any interest in cosmetics?

[Alexa]

And this is the problem's summary.

You have no argument and all you've done is insult me. Get lost. I'm getting real tired of you bunch of hardasses posting here and giving me trouble on a thread just asking if anyone liked the idea. It's not even constructive, you just sit here and whale on me for no good reason other than to insult me and make me out to be lazy.


I appreciate the lot of you who don't get a boner off of harassing people. Thanks.

 

[Etis]

You have no argument and all you've done is insult me. Get lost. I'm getting real tired of you bunch of hardasses posting here and giving me trouble on a thread just asking if anyone liked the idea. It's not even constructive, you just sit here and whale on me for no good reason other than to insult me and make me out to be lazy.

There are arguments. You are just ignoring them.

 

[Alexa]

There are arguments. You are just ignoring them.

I just told you to get lost. Discussion is over. If you wanted me to listen then maybe you should have kept your tough guy attitude to yourself.

You're right! Congrats! Now fuck off.

 

[Alexa]

I don't really see a huge demand for a faux version of other transformatives in the form of cosmetics. A lot of cosmetics in general would be an anachronism in the setting considering how easy it is to change things like coloration, so if there was to be any cosmetic stuff I would say it should probably come in the form of targeted mods for the coloration of certain things like lips or eyelids.

And yeah, someone would have to write the effects.

Not for already in place TFs. More or less you can just copy the descriptions that have been written. It's also a cheaper option so you don't have to break the bank to get a cute Nuki mask

 

[Nik_van_Rijn]

I don't really see a huge demand for a faux version of other transformatives in the form of cosmetics. A lot of cosmetics in general would be an anachronism in the setting considering how easy it is to change things like coloration, so if there was to be any cosmetic stuff I would say it should probably come in the form of targeted mods for the coloration of certain things like lips or eyelids.

Don't forget how prohibitive the cost of even the simple TFs are from the lore perspective. Plus, a good number of people might prefer at least some part of their choice in cosmetics to be easily removable/modifiable. So, while both TF mods and make-up professional/body artists applying specialized professional transformatives to the area to create a certain image is definitely a thing in TiTS, as demonstrated by Inessa's tattoos and Aislinn's facials, more traditional make-up can have its place.

 

[Nik_van_Rijn]

To follow my own advice, this is my suggestion: Take Couch's idea for an NPC that handles cosmetic appearance, and set it up similarly to Misty's facial fairy that's planned for Ceria's shop. Like, she's an art major, and practices her craft on customers or something. As for actual effects, maybe she gives you a makeover that improves sexiness until you shower (represented in a status), or maybe she can give the player tattoos on parts of their bodies (cheeks, upper arms, belly, lower back, wherever). You seem interested in the Vanae markings, maybe she can give those to the player, or other styles of markings? Like tiger stripes, or tron lights, or whatever.

I really like this idea, especially the customization options for PC's markings. Making a tiger-striped kaithrit ala the ones in Renezuo's Bestiary would be pretty awesome.

You have no argument and all you've done is insult me. Get lost. I'm getting real tired of you bunch of hardasses posting here and giving me trouble on a thread just asking if anyone liked the idea. It's not even constructive, you just sit here and whale on me for no good reason other than to insult me and make me out to be lazy.


I appreciate the lot of you who don't get a boner off of harassing people. Thanks.

For a supposed throwaway suggestion, you seem to have took a (perceived) negative reaction you got too close to heart. Come on.

Couch's and Owen's position might be a little jaded, but it's far from unreasonable. Threads like these typically serve no practical purpose, since the answer to the initial question is obvious in the context of a game that's in big part about perfect PC customization. Moreover, without concrete suggestions on how you plan to go about things, the devs can't even tell you if those okay or not lore- or mechanics-wise. So, the old guard just makes sure that you are aware of that, with Etis being himself and pointing out the flaws of your plan in a somewhat abrasive fashion. He is not wrong in what he says though.

That being said, I see no harm in idly tossing random concepts around. It's half of what this forum subsection is for, after all.

 

[Alexa]

@Nik_van_Rijn
I didn't really have an issue with Owens. Just Couch and Eris, but even Couch was at least a little mild mannered about it. I also don't care if it's just a suggestion, they don't need to be passive aggressive for any reason whatsoever or make the insinuations they did.

I'm all for argument but I've already lost all interest in what you have to say when you decide you need to scratch your testosterone itch and be a dick to someone for no reason. @Etis

The only thing Etis is trying to say is that it's a TF, which if you boil anything down to the level he did, you can say it's the same as something else. "Oh, this phone and this wall are made of atoms, so they must be the same.". He is also trying to say that content needs to be written for it, which is true, but that point is irrelevant as appearance descriptions can be taken from the TFs the cosmetics emulate and Ceria is already written. There just needs to be an action scene for when Ceria applies the cosmetics, which would be simple because it's just a blurb where Ceria works her magic.

That being said, I see no harm in idly tossing random concepts around. It's half of what this forum subsection is for, after all.

So maybe you can see why I'm a little irritated.

 

[NotYouNorI]

I just told you to get lost. Discussion is over. If you wanted me to listen then maybe you should have kept your tough guy attitude to yourself.

You're right! Congrats! Now fuck off.

Just FYI, this is a public forum and you have no authority or right to "shoo" somebody away from a thread.

 

[Alexa]

Just FYI, this is a public forum and you have no authority or right to "shoo" somebody away from a thread.

I just spent the first page of this thread getting subtly called a lazy dumbass and you decide it's appropriate to point that out to me?

Consider it a request that would be courteous to heed. You don't stick around and annoy someone unless you're a real dick.

 

[NotYouNorI]

I just spent the last page and a half of this thread getting subtly called a lazy dumbass and you decide it's appropriate to point that out to me?

You guys must actually think I'm a dumbass.

Nobody was calling you "lazy" or a "dumbass", subtly or otherwise.

You were, however, called out on making wrong assumptions and you were told how things actually work.

 

[HugsAlright]

I just want to say: (incoherent screeching).

 

[Nik_van_Rijn]

Just Couch and Eris, but even Couch was at least a little mild mannered about it. I also don't care if it's just a suggestion, they don't need to be passive aggressive for any reason whatsoever or make the insinuations they did.

Couch's latest comment was 100% polite from where I stand, and he also has never flung any accusations or told you that you can't have threads like this one. Just that it's mostly pointless - which it is for everyone who doesn't find simply participating in discussions for the hell of it fun.

The only thing Etis is trying to say is that it's a TF, which if you boil anything down to the level he did, you can say it's the same as something else. "Oh, this phone and this wall are made of atoms, so they must be the same.". He is also trying to say that content needs to be written for it, which is true, but that point is irrelevant as appearance descriptions can be taken from the TFs the cosmetics emulate and Ceria is already written. There just needs to be an action scene for when Ceria applies the cosmetics, which would be simple because it's just a blurb where Ceria works her magic.

Etis has pointed out that on the actual mechanics involved in any cosmetic changes work the same way no matter what the scene looks like on the outside; TFs and the services of cosmetic specialist NPCs are identical in that sense. And even if you only want to have that cosmetic service give the appearance traits that already exist as part of the TF mods, it still needs work put into it. Because for example the kui-tan mask is the face type, so to make it work with other faces you'll need adjustments to the Appearance screen descriptions. And simple as it may be (in case of more boring options), writing those application scenes is still work.

Additionally, Ceria is a hair stylist. Aislinn might fit the bill better, but Misty is preoccupied at the moment and is adamantly against other people writing for her characters. So it'll need another character written for the salon, and that's assuming that Couch is still on board with the concept.

So maybe you can see why I'm a little irritated.

Not really, no. You are overreacting and fighting against imaginary adversaries, since again, no one made any assertions about you.

I'd sincerely advise you to take a pause and potentially get back to this later if you'd still be interested in continuing the discussion of this idea.

I just want to say: (incoherent screeching).

Come on, man. Why you do this? That's not how a proper Waifuist should behave.

 

[Alexa]

Nobody was calling you "lazy" or a "dumbass", subtly or otherwise.

Yes, they were. They aren't even denying it. You are. What does your word mean if you weren't the one who said it? Couch wasn't as bad as Etis as he didn't flat out insult me, but it still pissed me off that he ASSUMED I was just pitching the idea and demanding someone else to write it.

Etis flat out insulted me with his assumptions that I didn't know what I was talking about. He then proceeded to nitpick the word I used to refer to a variable and used that as an excuse to say I didn't know what I was talking about.

Wowee, Etis. You use a different word than I did to describe the same thing. What do you call it? Field? Variable? You sound like those pompous snobs who think someone's an idiot for referring to their Ami Du Chambertin as "stinky cheese".

 

[JDeko]

sweet

 

[Alexa]

You were, however, called out on making wrong assumptions and you were told how things actually work.

Uh, on what exactly? I'm failing to see where I'm wrong. The only things Etis bitched about were: content, which I have said for the sixth time already existed in current TFs / The content being a TF, which why does that even matter? He just brought that up for the sake of arguing it even though there is no reason to. Congrats! You can consider it a TF. It changes nothing.

That's it. The only two points Etis had, both of which were dealt with and are irrelevant.

 

[NotYouNorI]

Yes, they were. They aren't even denying it. You are. What does your word mean if you weren't the one who said it? Couch wasn't as bad as Etis as he didn't flat out insult me, but it still pissed me off that he ASSUMED I was just pitching the idea and demanding someone else to write it.

Etis flat out insulted me with his assumptions that I didn't know what I was talking about. He then proceeded to nitpick the word I used to refer to a variable and used that as an excuse to say I didn't know what I was talking about.

Wowee, Etis. You use a different word than I did to describe the same thing. What do you call it? Field? Variable? You sound like those pompous snobs who think someone's an idiot for referring to their Ami Du Chambertin as "stinky cheese".

Uh, on what exactly? I'm failing to see where I'm wrong. The only things Etis bitched about were: content, which I have said for the sixth time already existed in current TFs / The content being a TF, which why does that even matter? He just brought that up for the sake of arguing it even though there is no reason to. Congrats! You can consider it a TF. It changes nothing.

That's it. The only two points Etis had, both of which were dealt with and are irrelevant.

They may not be denying it, but they aren't confirming it either. Most likely because they decided to opt out of this and may have better things to do than to continue this argument with you. As you are building a "straw-man"of them and ignoring their criticism.
Speaking of which, the points they brought up were more than just simple semantics corrections and they were offering solutions, which you declined and stuck to your idea that some kind of framework for make-up needs to be established in TiTS (something you as a non-developer and non-coder aren't able to work on) and that scenes for various make-up seeming TFs should be reused (regardless of any loss of context those scenes might get from this). Also not to mention how you think you need to gouge interest for this.

And even if they did call you a "dumbass" or "lazy", so what! Offense is always taken, not given. So just don't take any.

 

[Alexa]

ignoring their criticism.

I have answered all of their points at least four times now.

 

[NotYouNorI]

I have answered all of their points at least four times now.

You have handwaved them off with more baseless assumptions on how things work.

 

[Zavos]

If you want your idea to make any meaningful progress, you should listen to people rather then deflecting their constructive criticism.

 

[Noob Salad]

This thread is an example of why this entire subforum shouldn't exist.

@Savin pls. We don't need ideas; those kinds of things along with discussions belong in the general TiTS forum. Anything that actually has a Google doc to show for it should just start out in Events, ready for exhibition/criticism/whatever. I mean seriously, every kind of "real" idea we've had in this subforum so far at least has some work to show for it.

 

[Alexa]

You have handwaved them off with more baseless assumptions on how things work.

Sure thing. I see there's no convincing you. Going with the momentum of the thread doesn't make you right.

If you want your idea to make any meaningful progress, you should listen to people rather then deflecting their constructive criticism.

Same deal. Also not constructive whatsoever. Etis's points were not constructive and were only the result of him nitpicking. His only points were:

"It's TECHNICALLY a TF if we count this: ... "

"You aren't using the correct word for the variables we use to store player attributes so therefore you don't know what you're talking about."

"You're lazy for pitching an idea in the ideas subforum with hopes that it might be picked up by someone else."

Right or wrong? I've been waiting for someone to do something other than slander me for standing up for myself.

Offense is always taken, not given. So just don't take any.

Wow, just sit there and take it. That's your suggestion?

 

[Noob Salad]

Wow, just sit there and take it. That's your suggestion?

No, his suggestion is actually write something or fuck off.

 

[Alexa]

No, his suggestion is actually write something or fuck off.

What's the need for people to write things that float by in an ideas subforum? I don't really see the issue? Can't we just toss ideas around?

This community is nastier in more ways than one if someone can't post an idea in an idea subforum and not get jumped on.

What ESPECIALLY confuses me is why you hardasses lurk in the ideas subforum and then freak out when someone has an idea on it.

 

[Kesil]

Can't we just toss ideas around?

Not really.

 

[Noob Salad]

Can't we just toss ideas around?

No.

This community is nastier in more ways than one if someone can't post an idea in an idea subforum and not get jumped on.

Then just leave. This entire subforum was a mistake; no one asked for it and no one wants it around anymore.

What ESPECIALLY confuses me is why you hardasses lurk in the ideas subforum and then freak out when someone has an idea on it.

Fuck off, you're going to need bigger bait than that.

 

[Gedan]

Knock it the shit off, tia.

 

[Alexa]

Then just leave. This entire subforum was a mistake; no one asked for it and no one wants it around anymore.

Then why would someone purposefully hang around it to bitch when someone posts in it?

Fuck off, you're going to need bigger bait than that.

Bait? I just described the past three days of this thread's life. I post an idea, the first person to respond is Couch and following that the only reason he responded to it was to give me hell that I wasn't going to write it. If I wanted it written, it'd be done. It would be sitting in the event submission subforum.

THERE'S AN IDEA IN THE IDEA SUBFORUM. SWITCH TO ATTACK MODE.

 

[PyrateHyena]

T'ing is in my humble opinion, that you @Alexa are not following the, unwritten and written rules of this here subforum, which need to be followed to be taken seriously. Your assumption seems to have been something like tossing an idea without a throughout articulated concept of how it is going to work will make people here toss in their own ideas and maybe debate a little. But with so little technical detail and your seeming unwillingness to write something like make-up application scenes, there is not much to debate about. At the risk of sounding dumb to you, I did not understand what you want. Simple application scenes or services? Thats fine, but they need to be written. A whole new slot for make-up? Even better whole new parsers and/or flags, so that you f.e. can have a kui-tan mask from the regular TF and put a different colored one on top of it, whenever you feel like it? That would make a bit more sense if we treat these as real cosmetics and not just 'traditional' TFs, right? You were not clear about what you want, that is why Etis asked in his usual way, like it or do not. You have to deal and argue with people, but for something meaningful to come out of that, you need to understand what others want from you. And some open-minded digging around in the forum should have made you realize what is expected. I am sorry if I sound like an asshat. I do not mean to discourage you, I am simply giving my opinion. There are some, who do not follow 'the rules' as described here, and myself also tends not to from time to time, but being a bitch about it (criticism, however harsh is not meant to insult you) does not solve nor provide anything.

 

[Noob Salad]

THERE'S AN IDEA IN THE IDEA SUBFORUM. SWITCH TO ATTACK MODE.

You deserve to be attacked. Not at all because you keep trying to pass off vague thoughts as a so called "idea", but because you're an asshole.

You see, I don't care if your idea was God's gift to Fen, or if Etis raped your sister. The "past three days of this thread's life" have just been you proving you're an unlikable, insufferable cunt, that continues to overreact and refuses to listen to anyone's opinion but their own. Also you're a big stupid head and you have no right to not refer to me as Captain* Hardass.

Hell, I'm not even mad though; I don't owe you shit, let alone that satisfaction. Etis and everyone else have been way too generous as it is, bothering to respond at all as they have these past couple of days.

TL;DR: I guess, at the end of the day, what I'm really trying to say here is: Fuck off.

 

[Etis]

Then why would someone purposefully hang around it to bitch when someone posts in it?

Bait? I just described the past three days of this thread's life. I post an idea, the first person to respond is Couch and following that the only reason he responded to it was to give me hell that I wasn't going to write it. If I wanted it written, it'd be done. It would be sitting in the event submission subforum.

THERE'S AN IDEA IN THE IDEA SUBFORUM. SWITCH TO ATTACK MODE.

And that's what I've talked about. There was a post #54 with explanation what is ideas forum and what is it for, but you've totally ignored it.

You see, your "idea" doesn't fit either category. It is totally not second since you've admitted that you don't want to write a shit. And it is not first since you are stubbornly rejecting any actual ideas about how it could be implemented; instead, you are rambling something incoherent about "framework." Tossing in some smart word does not make you look smart.