Wings and possible Evasion Effects in Combat?

[v.mum]

since change log 0.7.182 announced Hp battle related penalties in taking greater damage with negative evasion scores, ive had the question of is Wings contributed at all to Evasion.

My current iteration of Steele as Avian Wings and the Hollow Bones perk from amber seed transformatives. the most ive seen Flying take place at all as a result is with a few select individual scenes- which, frankly, fair. no need to rewrite scenes for abilities to fly, specially as i think not all wings would IVE one the ability to fly. When it comes to having both hollow bones, and avian wings, i think it most certainly is the case that my Steele can fly, and maybe other Steele wing types.

the question is if these abilities via wings are implemented at all in battle scenarios. being able to fly is a significant advantage early in the game- the Zil Male is a primary example. however, snooping the Fenoxo wiki pages alludes to no ability or effect related to wings, or to evasion.

Im not recommending re writing whole battle scenes for PC Steeles with wings, but, perhaps adding a Flight-Capable Perk to be seen in the Combat Statistics area of the codex for those that are flight capable and an Evasion or Reflex Boosting effect that comes with gaining the perk. based on a Steele PCs weight, or wing type, this effect could also differ and make some wings more... valuable, and gaining hard-to-get perks like the Hollow Bones Perk a very valuable perk that increases the Evasive/Reflexive Bonus of a Flight Perk.

 

[Raindrops]

It is deliberatly not implemented in battle scenes. If having wings gave a combat advantage, that means that everyone would feel pressured (if not straight up forced) to have wings, even if they don't want to.

 

[v.mum]

It is deliberatly not implemented in battle scenes. If having wings gave a combat advantage, that means that everyone would feel pressured (if not straight up forced) to have wings, even if they don't want to.

Then perhaps it should only be a small boost? just a +1 to Evasion would be simple and not much a push to get them or a forced kind of deal.

 

[Foxxling]

Or you could compensate with a jetpack accessory that gives the same bonus

 

[Holographic_Information]

I really like your attention to detail OP! Does anyone know if the hollow bones perk actually does anything other than saying "your bones are hollow and you weigh less" Is it just a description or a real in game effect?

Or you could compensate with a jetpack accessory that gives the same bonus

I absolutely agree, this is great thinking on Foxxlings part. Much respect to this wisdom!

 

[Darkpheonix]

I really like your attention to detail OP! Does anyone know if the hollow bones perk actually does anything other than saying "your bones are hollow and you weigh less" Is it just a description or a real in game effect?

I absolutely agree, this is great thinking on Foxxlings part. Much respect to this wisdom!

hallow bones perk is just descriptive it does not influence anything outside of the appearance screen

 

[Holographic_Information]

hallow bones perk is just descriptive it does not influence anything outside of the appearance screen

Oh okay. That's rather disappointing and also interesting as well. I had hoped it actually did something. It would be nice to gain some special features that strengthen the bones possibly making up for the hollow bones making them weaker. Remember all the different body upgrades from mass effect 1/2? maybe we can have a system inspired like that. The space suits too eh? super cool!

 

[Aullama]

Or you could compensate with a jetpack accessory that gives the same bonus

That just means that if you don't have wings, you'd feel pressured to then have the jetpack. Not even a bandaid fix. Just barely shifting the problem. Plus, there are other accessories other than the jetpack. The myr greatcoat is one of my faves right now, and probably will be for a while. I don't want to give that up just because people want their super-special-awesome Steeles to get special advantages.

 

[Holographic_Information]

That just means that if you don't have wings, you'd feel pressured to then have the jetpack. Not even a bandaid fix. Just barely shifting the problem. Plus, there are other accessories other than the jetpack. The myr greatcoat is one of my faves right now, and probably will be for a while. I don't want to give that up just because people want their super-special-awesome Steeles to get special advantages.

I agree, which is why we should let people wear the myr greatcoat with a jetpack. What's his name in guardians of the galaxy can wear a coat with a jetpack on the outside right? by the way I forget, what does that coat do? I can't find it in the wiiki
https://wiki.smutosaur.us/TiTS/index.php?search=myr+coat&title=Special:Search&fulltext=Search

also does anyone know the Item name in the code? like the save editing name for that and other items?

 

[Kesil]

It's not "Myr Coat", but "Myr Greatcoat": https://wiki.smutosaur.us/TiTS/Myr_Greatcoat

 

[Foxxling]

That just means that if you don't have wings, you'd feel pressured to then have the jetpack. Not even a bandaid fix. Just barely shifting the problem. Plus, there are other accessories other than the jetpack. The myr greatcoat is one of my faves right now, and probably will be for a while. I don't want to give that up just because people want their super-special-awesome Steeles to get special advantages.

I really just don't get people who complain that "That person's build has an easily exploitable advantage!" you can choose to do the thing or NOT to do the thing. IF this were a multiplayer game I'd understand because going up against ppl who are automatically better than you sucks but this isn't the case.

So why not consider the opposite perspective? Why should being able to fly get nerfed just because you don't want to include it in your character's kit?

Like if you don't want wings or a jetpack don't get them... keep your appearance and accessories. There are already parts of the game where having climbing equipment or a jetpack give you an advantage.

Also one could create armor that has a built-in jetpack (or gravity leveling device), psionics could allow flight (ik they're not implemented)... It is a fictional world we can be creative with it. But all I'm saying is that if you give an advantage like flight to one build creating multiple ways to get the same advantage (in this case flight) is better than nixing the advantage because some ppl won't like other people having an advantage... advantage

 

[Aullama]

I really just don't get people who complain that "That person's build has an easily exploitable advantage!" you can choose to do the thing or NOT to do the thing. IF this were a multiplayer game I'd understand because going up against ppl who are automatically better than you sucks but this isn't the case.

So why not consider the opposite perspective? Why should being able to fly get nerfed just because you don't want to include it in your character's kit?

Like if you don't want wings or a jetpack don't get them... keep your appearance and accessories. There are already parts of the game where having climbing equipment or a jetpack give you an advantage.

Also one could create armor that has a built-in jetpack (or gravity leveling device), psionics could allow flight (ik they're not implemented)... It is a fictional world we can be creative with it. But all I'm saying is that if you give an advantage like flight to one build creating multiple ways to get the same advantage (in this case flight) is better than nixing the advantage because some ppl won't like other people having an advantage... advantage

You're not seeing the issue. It's a matter of balancing fights. If TF's suddenly started giving combat advantages, with a bland "just use accessories with the same stat, brah" bandaid fix, fights would have to be balanced around that. And once you start balancing fights around TF's, they start becoming necessary - you could even say they become the meta. So instead of having a jetpack that gives you additional evasion, it becomes needed evasion. Or if nothing changes with the way fights are thought out, then TF's automatically become easy mode, since you can have the wings/other TFs, AND the gear. Any semblance of balance the game currently has, is based on class build, not physical appearance.

 

[v.mum]

While all those raised points are pretty valid in terms of game mechanics, and very understandable concerns, i catn help? feeling like the Hollow Bones Perk and the variety of wings are dead ends?

Appearance Factors all have some sort of effect that vary on different opponents. some opponents like it when you have long hair or all bald. the size of your stomach or the tone on you muscles has a big effect on evasion capabilities and strength. Im sure it doesnt stop players from playing the hypersized steele of their dreams, or female steele's walking around with long gorgeous hair.

Those are easy perks to gain while the Hollow Bones Perk takes a lot of difficult moding, and its often difficult to get the Wings you want without side effects. That said, maybe not all wings even offer evasion perk? perhaps Avian Wings provide an evasion perk only when coupled with hollow bones. Having the modded gene for Bee Wings might provide +1 seductive effects against zil. Maybe there's a type of wings that's completely useless, but they look pretty so they have an effect toward seduction. maybe theres even wings with a negative indicator- big Demonic wings, while an excitable aesthetic for those who like is, increase cold vulnerability but also give a +1 to strength? maybe wings need the negative trade off to balance them and prevent them from being just accessories to the Steele, so Perhaps avian wings are also -1 reflex for their bulk, and zil wings are -1 aim because theyre too small for stable flight.

I personally like the hollow bones perk and avian wings just out of aesthetic, and will continue to use them no matter the case. just, while im fuckin around trying to get the hollow bones perk (which is difficult), i cant help but wondering why Wings, a relatively cool mod, has less effect on steele and NPC/hostile interaction characters than hair cuts.

 

[Dragonice]

While all those raised points are pretty valid in terms of game mechanics, and very understandable concerns, i catn help? feeling like the Hollow Bones Perk and the variety of wings are dead ends?

Appearance Factors all have some sort of effect that vary on different opponents. some opponents like it when you have long hair or all bald. the size of your stomach or the tone on you muscles has a big effect on evasion capabilities and strength. Im sure it doesnt stop players from playing the hypersized steele of their dreams, or female steele's walking around with long gorgeous hair.

Those are easy perks to gain while the Hollow Bones Perk takes a lot of difficult moding, and its often difficult to get the Wings you want without side effects. That said, maybe not all wings even offer evasion perk? perhaps Avian Wings provide an evasion perk only when coupled with hollow bones. Having the modded gene for Bee Wings might provide +1 seductive effects against zil. Maybe there's a type of wings that's completely useless, but they look pretty so they have an effect toward seduction. maybe theres even wings with a negative indicator- big Demonic wings, while an excitable aesthetic for those who like is, increase cold vulnerability but also give a +1 to strength? maybe wings need the negative trade off to balance them and prevent them from being just accessories to the Steele, so Perhaps avian wings are also -1 reflex for their bulk, and zil wings are -1 aim because theyre too small for stable flight.

I personally like the hollow bones perk and avian wings just out of aesthetic, and will continue to use them no matter the case. just, while im fuckin around trying to get the hollow bones perk (which is difficult), i cant help but wondering why Wings, a relatively cool mod, has less effect on steele and NPC/hostile interaction characters than hair cuts.

I understand why you want this to be a thing but remember that some things are better left out. In coc 1 you can be a naga and as a naga you can bind and totally fuck anything that isn't immune to bind. Seriously it was broken when combined with venom bite. That's why combat effects aren't combined with body types.

 

[Raindrops]

I understand why you want this to be a thing but remember that some things are better left out. In coc 1 you can be a naga and as a naga you can bind and totally fuck anything that isn't immune to bind. Seriously it was broken when combined with venom bite. That's why combat effects aren't combined with body types.

That and the Kitsune TFs gave you some insane magic IIRC

 

[v.mum]

honestly, genuinely understandable. i don't even care if it helps in a fight, it just seems like it could do /something/, you know? hell, id be satisfied if there was even a little bit more detail about it in the codex when you had wings- like, what the coloration looks like. I don't know what i'm really advocating for- just that i think the addition of wings in TiTs is really cool, i like the variety of mods, Dove wings having 6+ wings?? cool as heck!

but having the wings makes /everything/ exactly the same? no one notices you have the wings? they dont do anything?
it just feels like its incomplete content, the way the nursery feels incomplete because the rooms dont do anything, and you couldnt interact with /any/ of your kids for a while. but hat got better- breeding unlocked things like gastigoth, or the Breedwell station. somethin incomplete got filled up and still looks cool. my only curiosity is if anything is intended for wings. or are they just gunna stay benign?

maybe all i want is a character that people with wings can like, talk to or do something with, a mini quest or even just wing specific dialogue? its just odd to me that something cool like wings, with a specific perk like Hollow Bones that's so difficult to actually get, doesn't... doesn't do anything. Hollow Bones doesn't even effect character weight, i don't think? it just screams unfinished?

 

[Dragonice]

honestly, genuinely understandable. i don't even care if it helps in a fight, it just seems like it could do /something/, you know? hell, id be satisfied if there was even a little bit more detail about it in the codex when you had wings- like, what the coloration looks like. I don't know what i'm really advocating for- just that i think the addition of wings in TiTs is really cool, i like the variety of mods, Dove wings having 6+ wings?? cool as heck!

but having the wings makes /everything/ exactly the same? no one notices you have the wings? they dont do anything?
it just feels like its incomplete content, the way the nursery feels incomplete because the rooms dont do anything, and you couldnt interact with /any/ of your kids for a while. but hat got better- breeding unlocked things like gastigoth, or the Breedwell station. somethin incomplete got filled up and still looks cool. my only curiosity is if anything is intended for wings. or are they just gunna stay benign?

maybe all i want is a character that people with wings can like, talk to or do something with, a mini quest or even just wing specific dialogue? its just odd to me that something cool like wings, with a specific perk like Hollow Bones that's so difficult to actually get, doesn't... doesn't do anything. Hollow Bones doesn't even effect character weight, i don't think? it just screams unfinished?

The game is still in the works and not many people work on kid stuff because this is a sex game. While yes their is some and the some is nice it's not the devs top priority. Plus people don't really account for none human mods very much unless it's the writers thing. Hence why their isn't more taur, naga, etc scenes.

 

[Vory]

I think adding unique stuff in regards to TF's adding abilities is good. I also think making the combat more balanced is good, but I think such an overhaul should wait until the end near the end of the development to make it a priority.