WHY is the pc a ninja?

[king of tentacle]

look i get it every body wants to be naruto or whoever

but how come there's no direct approach options for these dungeons and before you say out numbered

let me just say that's the best kind of party the few vs the few hundred or thousand specially with aoe attacks and explosives

 

[Lukistr]

You are right running headlong into the enemy when you are massively outnumbered IS THE BEST STRATEGY............If you want to get killed like an idiot.

 

[king of tentacle]

You are right running headlong into the enemy when you are massively outnumbered IS THE BEST STRATEGY............If you want to get killed like an idiot.

hey at least i go down swinging taking all of with me when i go instead of hiding in the shadows like a cowardly ninja

i mean it's roleplay for cthulu's sake my character wouldn't sneak

 

[Lukistr]

hey at least i go down swinging taking all of with me when i go instead of hiding in the shadows like a cowardly ninja

i mean it's roleplay for cthulu's sake my character wouldn't sneak

Fair enough but he/she would die. Nothing wrong with a proper last stand and stuff like that but there is a time and place for charging in unless your char is suicidal. I like living as do most of my characters. To be fair I might also be pretty biased since I hate power fantasy with a passion. There is nothing wrong with a powerful character but there is a fine line between strong and overpowered. That's why I actually like that you can't solve everything by just charging in like a madman.

 

[king of tentacle]

Fair enough but he/she would die. Nothing wrong with a proper last stand and stuff like that but there is a time and place for charging in unless your char is suicidal. I like living as do most of my characters. To be fair I might also be pretty biased since I hate power fantasy with a passion. There is nothing wrong with a powerful character but there is a fine line between strong and overpowered. That's why I actually like that you can't solve everything by just charging in like a madman.

for me a power fantasy would be taking them all down with a single attack that costs nothing

where as what i'm talking about would be draining the character would be a bleeding exhausted mess but barely alive

also there is more than one way to charge the front gate especially if you call out their toughest guy first to a 1v1 there by demoralizing the rest of them or ya know get some kind of exploding battering ram

also what with the charmer class plus courtesan background i don't see why you can't just walk right in works in the movies all the time bonus if the guards get a freebie

 

[Lukistr]

for me a power fantasy would be taking them all down with a single attack that costs nothing

where as what i'm talking about would be draining the character would be a bleeding exhausted mess but barely alive

also there is more than one way to charge the front gate especially if you call out their toughest guy first to a 1v1 there by demoralizing the rest of them or ya know get some kind of exploding battering ram

also what with the charmer class plus courtesan background i don't see why you can't just walk right in works in the movies all the time bonus if the guards get a freebie

Well why you do have some points their toughest guy would not just come out and if he did and you somehow won 1v1 which is doubtful I doubt the orcs would care all that much. The orcs are raiders you would show up at the gates challenged them to a 1v1 and they would probably bum rush you. Also the charmer courtesan walk in is just as ninja like as what you actually do ingame just less likely to succeed. Also about the power fantasy there is at least 70 orcs{probably more] in the camp and at least a few can use magic if you walk up there and beat all of them with a party of 3 or even everyone so 8 that's a clear example of overpowered even if somehow you challenge and beat their strongest [which would be Argoth that would not do it] first.

 

[Lukistr]

Also I see where you are coming from but the problem with things like that the way I see it is that they basically invalidate the plot. You just took a camp of hardened raiders with a tiny party at basically the start of your journey. If that is the case you can do something like that again "no problem" so what is the point of the story then if there is no challenge. I might not be explaining myself clearly but an example would be the Eragon books. By the last book[and kind of from second half of book 2 really] only ones that matter in the book are Eragon Murtagh and the king literally everyone else is filler. The same with every shonen manga ever the character grows so powerful they and the villain of the arc[who is somehow just strong enough to be a challenge but lose in the end] are the only ones to really matter.

Edit: you basically have to invent bigger and bigger threats just to create the challenge and the setting goes of the rail and makes the "normal people" not matter.

 

[Lukistr]

Sorry for the walls of text and just spouting my opinions so here is a last one. You are also not really doing anything like a ninja in most of the dungeons. I will get you the orc camp that is basically ninja. But the rest? Hornet and centaur dungeon you draw majority away and then plough through that's military tactics not ninja. Winter city to a point but the only other option is to siege the castle and good luck with that. Been a while since I did Into the closet but there you can basically run in and just bash everything in your way until you stop at the end. As for fort Marrok I really can't see any other way of dong the dungeon.

 

[king of tentacle]

Also I see where you are coming from but the problem with things like that the way I see it is that they basically invalidate the plot. You just took a camp of hardened raiders with a tiny party at basically the start of your journey. If that is the case you can do something like that again "no problem" so what is the point of the story then if there is no challenge. I might not be explaining myself clearly but an example would be the Eragon books. By the last book only ones that matter in the book are Eragon Murtagh and the king literally everyone else is filler. The same with every shonen manga ever the character grows so powerful they and the villain of the arc[who is somehow just strong enough to be a challenge but lose in the end] are the only ones to really matter.

Edit: you basically have to invent bigger and bigger threats just to create the challenge and the setting goes of the rail and makes the "normal people" not matter.

and yet "normal" people irl still manage to kill 100s and thousands with explosives everyday
all i'm saying is you stockpile enough curatives and explosives and poisons and anything is possible except killing a god maybe? for that you usually need a plot weapon

it's not how many you kill that makes you op it's how you kill period. besides it doesn't wreck the plot if you have contingencies in place for player choice
i mean just about anything from https://www.choiceofgames.com/ tends to do that and those are one person projects with mostly no art

just cause you massacre an entire dungeon with explosions and brute force determination doesn't mean kas can't still ragdoll you

also the shounen anime problem is they do it more than once dbz should have ended at frieza saga with goku being a golden haired god

 

[king of tentacle]

Sorry for the walls of text and just spouting my opinions so here is a last one. You are also not really doing anything like a ninja in most of the dungeons. I will get you the orc camp that is basically ninja. But the rest? Hornet and centaur dungeon you draw majority away and then plough through that's military tactics not ninja. Winter city to a point but the only other option is to siege the castle and good luck with that. Been a while since I did Into the closet but there you can basically run in and just bash everything in your way until you stop at the end. As for fort Marrok I really can't see any other way of dong the dungeon.

no probs even if the result is just a bad ending i'd take that over no choice at all

 

[Lukistr]

Sorry but as someone with military training I have to strongly disagree with you on the explosives part. A fragmentation grenade does not make nearly as big an explosion as people think. Anything stronger than that does not exist in-universe to our knowledge [Granted the grenades in Savarra might be more destructive]. And if you read the description for the lay-grenades or whatever they are called they are a relic of Belhar as in people can't make more of them so where exactly do you stockpile them/how do you get enough of them. Nothing else except magic which the orcs have too is explosive napta is effectively napalm and granted using that smartly would be brutal and effective but probably not enough to take on a whole fortified camp and you would need time to prepare it so we are back to "ninja" tactics. Same with everything else supplies are limited and how do you carry them/get enough of them in the first place. And again I don't disagree with everything you say. I just believe the way things are makes a lot more sense in-universe.

Edit: And yes I know it's a game and I might be digging a bit too deep into it but what I like about this is that it is "semi-realistic".

 

[Balaknightfang]

but how come there's no direct approach options for these dungeons and before you say out numbered

Because, frankly, we have better things to write than the player futilely beating their head against an impossible wall or providing incentive to try and cheat your way to victory by breaking your saves even more than some of the dumb shit we've seen. Because three or four people isn't enough to siege a city, orc camp, or any of the other dungeons that don't allow such things.

 

[king of tentacle]

Because, frankly, we have better things to write than the player futilely beating their head against an impossible wall or providing incentive to try and cheat your way to victory by breaking your saves even more than some of the dumb shit we've seen. Because three or four people isn't enough to siege a city, orc camp, or any of the other dungeons that don't allow such things.

fair enough life is short and growing shorter by the nanosec

 

[king of tentacle]

Because, frankly, we have better things to write than the player futilely beating their head against an impossible wall or providing incentive to try and cheat your way to victory by breaking your saves even more than some of the dumb shit we've seen. Because three or four people isn't enough to siege a city, orc camp, or any of the other dungeons that don't allow such things.

so feel free to berate me if i'm wrong in assuming this but does the pc exist just to change a lightbulb?

because we don't seem to have the usual chosen one plot armor ?

which makes me think that its one of those right place right time right body position angle things where once we're there it's just a case of lefty loosey righty tighty ?

 

[Evil]

Because the PC has a modicum of intelligence.

"Hey, I'm about to enter an Orcish warcamp filled with dozens upon dozens of enemy fighters. Well, better take my healing kitty and my minotaur fuckbuddies and charge them head on!"

They'd be dead before they even got near the gate.

 

[Paradox01]

so feel free to berate me if i'm wrong in assuming this but does the pc exist just to change a lightbulb?

because we don't seem to have the usual chosen one plot armor ?

which makes me think that its one of those right place right time right body position angle things where once we're there it's just a case of lefty loosey righty tighty ?

Does anyone else feel like they just had a stroke?

 

[sumgai]

so feel free to berate me if i'm wrong in assuming this but does the pc exist just to change a lightbulb?

because we don't seem to have the usual chosen one plot armor ?

which makes me think that its one of those right place right time right body position angle things where once we're there it's just a case of lefty loosey righty tighty ?

Does anyone else feel like they just had a stroke?

The PC has a modicum of Plot Armor, which is why Kas hasn't soul raped them yet. Not enough to go up against an entire fortified camp like s/he is Billy Lee from Double Dragon tho.

 

[Savin]

but how come there's no direct approach options for these dungeons

Because I don't really feel like writing a false choice "You attack the entire dungeon headon and die immediately!" for every single dungeon. There's a false ending Farcry homage in the intro, that's enough of that meme.

 

[The Observer]

Because I don't really feel like writing a false choice "You attack the entire dungeon headon and die immediately!" for every single dungeon. There's a false ending Farcry homage in the intro, that's enough of that meme.

But boss, don't you know that player autonomy and agency is paramount and that we should give them infinite choices to do whatever they want so they can stay true to their characters?

 

[Paradox01]

Yeah, every GM/DM in the history of RPGs everywhere LOVES when a player goes off script and wants to do something absolutely batshit crazy.

 

[Alypia]

"Players make their own choices, but they do not make them as they please. They do not make them under self-selected circumstances, but under circumstances existing already, given and transmitted by the devs."
-some designer somewhere, probably

 

[Balaknightfang]

Does anyone else feel like they just had a stroke?

That's been this whole thread

 

[king of tentacle]

That's been this whole thread

well at least you're not pulling a bioware and avoiding choice altogether because 99% of players mash paragon or something

 

[Tobey Maguire]

what the fuck did I just read
Spider-Man can't help you this time.

 

[king of tentacle]

what the fuck did I just read
Spider-Man can't help you this time.

oh don't worry about spidey he's to busy preaching the values of woke marvel with the rest of the "heroes" to help anyone anymore

at least super crime is up!

 

[king of tentacle]

Because I don't really feel like writing a false choice "You attack the entire dungeon headon and die immediately!" for every single dungeon. There's a false ending Farcry homage in the intro, that's enough of that meme.

never played farcry so i wouldn't know

i did play metal saga on the ps2 however where you could end your jrpg adventure before it began by listening to your mom and taking over the family business there by getting a credit sequence detailing everything you didn't do
also that wasn't the only ending like that in that game

 

[Tobey Maguire]

oh don't worry about spidey he's to busy preaching the values of woke marvel with the rest of the "heroes" to help anyone anymore

at least super crime is up!

Not I, Tobey Maguire, the best Spider-Man!!!

 

[king of tentacle]

Not I, Tobey Maguire, the best Spider-Man!!!

give it time they'll re-cut and re-edit your movies to fit the narrative soon enough

 

[Balaknightfang]

Okay, I'm stopping this thread now. It's caused enough brain damage and it's going places that have no place on this forum.