Why do bows suck?

Drac33

Active Member
Dec 17, 2022
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Wasn’t sure whether to post this in the Gripes thread or as its own topic, but I figure this might get a bit long so may as well do it as its own thing.

It seems to me that bows have a serious problem in this game. For first, they’re two-handed weapons, with all the downsides thereof (no shields, catalysts, or dual-wielding), yet they do worse damage than almost all other two-handers, save for those which have some other special effect to justify it (eg. swift sword, caranbrot).

On top of which, Warriors—the one class which, if any, should be good with ALL weapon types—who wish to use a bow are locked out of using practically all of their own class’s powers. Literally, there are only two warrior powers in the entire game that work with ranged weapons (“rend” and “get over here”). And, even worse, the dedicated ranged weapon powers are mostly inferior to their closest melee equivalents, with only a couple of them being any good at all (“sure shot”, “triple threat”).

ON TOP OF WHICH, despite there being two bows seemingly designed for magic users, bows are also incompatible with every single weapon/spell power save one (“thunderbrand”). Literally the only way to really “use” a bow as a spellblade type character is to just use it to apply crackle powder to your foes, and then, assuming the storm vulnerability manages to last until your next turn (probability: LOW), deal your actual damage with normal storm spells/charms.

As if all that wasn’t enough, just to rub salt in the wounds, thrown weapons exist, which are compatible with every power in the game including ranged-only ones. Yes, they usually deal less damage (glacial spike and blight tendril excepted), but on the other hand many of them can be dual-wielded to reduce or even eliminate that deficit.

As for how to fix this… well, I really see only two options:

One, probably the simpler choice, is to just remove the melee-only restrictions from the majority of warrior and spellblade-type powers, to give bows the same versatility in builds as other weapons.

The second, trickier—and IMO less satisfying—way, would be to simply buff bows’ damage to the point it would be worth limiting yourself to their highly restrictive move-set. I say trickier (from a balancing standpoint), because honestly in order to be worth it they’d pretty much have to become the most powerful per-hit weapons in the game. Like, I’m talking buffing most bows from the around 40-45 damage where they are now, up to maybe 60-65.

Personally I’d much rather option one, because it’s not so much their damage potential that turns me away from bows, but rather their so-limited and generally bland move-set.

Or maybe it’s just me, IDK. What do y’all think?
 

Drac33

Active Member
Dec 17, 2022
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They do work with charge weapon iirc, so spellswords can use them pretty well
Huh. I could have sworn it had a [melee] tag in there, but at least according to the wiki you are correct. Nice to know.

Still, when I think 'spellblade', I tend to think of using [spell][weapon]-tagged powers, which scale off both your weapon attacks and your spellpower together.

But I like to play as an archer character.
I mean, I like the idea of playing as an archer too... in theory. The problem is that every time I try to, I quickly find myself growing either bored, frustrated, or both, with bows' generally dull and lackluster-performing powers, and switch back to using a melee weapon of some sort instead.

Which isn't even to mention another annoying fact which I'd somehow managed to forget (probably for good reason) in typing my original post:

Namely, that there actually do exist in game multiple 'spell-bow' type powers used by various NPCs. Hell, you can even learn one of them, "Frost Arrow", by equipping Hethia's whitewood bow if you beat her in combat during Dog Days and decide to take it. Which would be all well and good... if only, subsequent to learning that power, you could then use it with any bow, not just the whitewood one (sort of like how you learn "Cone of Cold" the first time you equip any of Rimescour's forms, but subsequently don't need the weapon equipped or even in your inventory to actually use it), but unfortunately this isn't the case. Meaning you're left with the choice between either being able to use "Frost Arrow"... or making peace with Hethia so you can access all her content post-Winter City.

The only other thing even close to a 'spell-bow' power we have access to at present is the sadly underwhelming "Frostfire Shot." +50 attack power, even for a Recharge 1 power, is just kind of meh by the time you reach level 6 at which you can learn it, and way less effective than a comparable spellblade power like "Power Wave". (Although, really, I suspect this is due to the way that +attack power abilities in general seem to scale more poorly than spells, due to the bonus being fixed rather than based upon your stats, meaning the relative benefit decreases the higher level you get... but that's a whole other issue.)

I also forgot to mention the further annoying fact that some of the only new [ranged] powers that have been added recently (other than the even more disappointing "Flashburn Shot" for thieves) can only be acquired by deliberately doing the Winter Wolf quest wrong, and mirror stancing them from Hawkeye Arona during the Lureling fight. (But then, the number of powers which can only be acquired---mutually exclusively---by that method is, again, really a whole other issue unto itself.)
 

denzo12362

Member
Apr 1, 2024
9
8
25
Ranged should have more in them in order for them to be viable.

One idea would be to have ranged weapons have innately worse accuracy, but you also gain less threat from the weapon damage + your evasion is also increased. You are going fire shots from afar, of course things will be less accurate but the same would be said for the enemy too.

Moreover, some melee powers that does not explicitly require being melee (like "Holy Shock") should be usable for ranged. Other examples would be "Power wave", "Smite evil" and "Double attack". You probably can charge holy energy on an arrow and fire 2 in quick succession, right?

Lastly, a stance that allows you to redirect some damage (if it ever lands) to one of your companions. You are basically hiding behind your allies, making yourself safer and perhaps also redirecting some of the threat generation to the designated companion.
 

Fuzzybear

Well-Known Member
Sep 15, 2015
46
11
Instead of making an already broken thing even weaker with less accuracy, you could instead have more "piercing" damage, or perhaps a chance to cause bleed/poison/ other status stuff or maybe do more damage at the cost of "you cant dodge/block"?