What is Lethicite... really? (Spoilers)

[Starstruck]

I've had some time to mull this over while I've been away, plus some content that was added in the interim and some that I'd yet to experience until recently have given me reason to ponder again...

Spoiler

Is Lethicite, really what we've believed it to be all these years? Or is it simply a by-product of someone's corruption peaking under certain... conditions and going full demon?

When Keros extracts the Champion's soul it is without preamble, minimal tinges of sensuality (all of which came from the Kitsune in attendance.) and certainly no ejaculations! Masculine or feminine.

Conversely, not all Demon's fit the perceived norms, Farrah being a prime example, but also to a lesser extent Kasyrra and even (to a point) the former guard captain Jael'yn. They've all become ravenously sexual since their turning but wouldn't necessarily call them *soulless* (and hell, most of Savarra could be described with those words.)

Dangerous? Most Definitely, but soulless? Questionably.

 

[Savin]

Lethicite is exactly what it's described as in CoC1: the product of a mortal soul being coomed out in crystalized form.

Were a soul extracted some other way than in a corrupt sex-frenzy, mayhaps it would take another shape.

 

[Starstruck]

Thus by Word of God my musings are shot dead, ah well... I appreciate the concise answer nevertheless. x3

 

[cobra]

If Lethicite is the equivalent of Ambrosia, Dragon Balls, or the Holy Grail or something along those lines, will the player be able to acquire some at some point in the game and if so, utilize it in some significant way? Maybe as currency for epic perks and powers or something? Is the stuff even useful to mortals? OG CoC had a little bit of this to some extent but in pretty underwhelming ways like a canopy for the Champion's camp so they can't get gang-raped by random imps. Yipee,

 

[WolframL]

Spoilers for post-WC content:

Spoiler

- Alissa's lethicite is now necessary to unlock Ryn's cage since it's soul-bound and Alissa and her soul are no longer on speaking terms. Last seen in the possession of Kasyrra and obviously going to show up again.
- Jael'yn can lose her soul if sent to the Wayfort and depending on who else is there, either Farrah or the Alraune was last known to be holding it. There's bolded text for this one so it's probably going to be important in the future.
- Farrah's lethicite is now in Kas' hands, though she doesn't seem to mind the lack of a soul right now. Who knows if it'll come up again but it's at least one potential crystal out there for future use.
- Kasyrra still has a quantity of the stuff other than the ones above.

 

[Savin]

will the player be able to acquire some at some point in the game

Yes.

Spoilers for post-WC content:

Spoiler

- Alissa's lethicite is now necessary to unlock Ryn's cage since it's soul-bound and Alissa and her soul are no longer on speaking terms. Last seen in the possession of Kasyrra and obviously going to show up again.
- Jael'yn can lose her soul if sent to the Wayfort and depending on who else is there, either Farrah or the Alraune was last known to be holding it. There's bolded text for this one so it's probably going to be important in the future.
- Farrah's lethicite is now in Kas' hands, though she doesn't seem to mind the lack of a soul right now. Who knows if it'll come up again but it's at least one potential crystal out there for future use.
- Kasyrra still has a quantity of the stuff other than the ones above.

You missed one that's super relevant. Not gonna say which tho~

 

[WolframL]

You missed one that's super relevant. Not gonna say which tho~

One that doesn't fall under the heading of 'Whatever Kas brought with her'? If I'm missing one that I should be remembering, this is gonna bug me until I figure out where I'm being such a derp.

 

[cobra]

One that doesn't fall under the heading of 'Whatever Kas brought with her'? If I'm missing one that I should be remembering, this is gonna bug me until I figure out where I'm being such a derp.

Spoiler: Possible Spoiler?

Could it be that mysterious package Master Tollus and the rest if the demon cult ran away with in the tutorial prologue before meeting Kas?

 

[Alypia]

One that doesn't fall under the heading of 'Whatever Kas brought with her'? If I'm missing one that I should be remembering, this is gonna bug me until I figure out where I'm being such a derp.

Oh, you definitely should be remembering this - but I won't say what it is either.

 

[WolframL]

Oh, you definitely should be remembering this - but I won't say what it is either.

...why are you making me use this image on you of all people?



<Goes off to think some more about what I'm forgetting>

 

[Starstruck]

On that note, i do fully expect Calla to return as a demon later in the story.

That's debatable, depends on what outcome of CoC1 is perceived as "Canon" by The Devs themselves. Mareth is, as Evergreen so aptly put it, unquestionably dangerous, but not without hope. If Mareth hasn't changed, or if the Champion of Ingnam has joined Lethice's ranks (one way or the other) or replaced her, then Calla is probably doomed, on the other hand if Mareth has begun to change for the better before and/or after the confrontation in Lethice's Palace then she may well have a strong fighting chance.

 

[Alypia]

...why are you making me use this image on you of all people?

View attachment 15765

<Goes off to think some more about what I'm forgetting>

I provided you with non-trivial information - you should know what this is - but informed you that I wasn't going to be able to hint at or even confirm it. That's not bulli, even for my personal expansive definition of the term.

 

[WolframL]

Oh... is it

Spoiler

The damned stone we've been using to access the Ways Between this whole time?

Yeah, that's a derp and a half on my part.

That's debatable, depends on what outcome of CoC1 is perceived as "Canon" by The Devs themselves.

The public design doc lists what the devs consider the canon ending in the absence of (now more or less moot) save transfers from the first game:

Players who don't import a save from CoC1 will be treated to the "default" world state: a Tainted futa champion eventually purified Lethice, and did all the quests so that the demons lost, but didn't kill any of them . Marae is alive and well, since the Factory was Destroyed . Taoth was rescued from Urta's balls.

It's possible that what they consider the canon ending could have shifted slightly since the doc was written, but in the absence of Savin coming out and saying so we can assume the above is what 'happened' in CoC1 for purposes of this game's story.

 

[Starstruck]

Oh... is it

Spoiler

The damned stone we've been using to access the Ways Between this whole time?

Yeah, that's a derp and a half on my part.
.

Spoiler

Sudden realization! We might've been gallivanting around with Kasyrra's Soul in our pocket. xD

 

[WolframL]

Spoiler

Sudden realization! We might've been gallivanting around with Kasyrra's Soul in our pocket. xD

Yeah, that's got to be the one I was overlooking and I do think you might be onto something. I re-ran the Palace of Ice to check something and found this:

Spoiler

 

[hawke56]

I'm still kind of uncertain what exactly a soul even is in the first place in the Corruption of champions universe. In most fiction (and actual religions) the soul of the person usually is the person so to speak. Meaning if it leaves the persons body said body is usually dead or at least comatose in some way (Unless there is some sort of Phylactery stuff going on where a soul is actually locked away in an item but remotely controls other bodies). This however is not the case in the Corruption of Champions universe since people can loose their soul and apparently this soul in the form Lethicite can even be destroyed/ consumed by a demon without the person it belonged to suffering life threatening drawbacks.

Going by CoC 1 alone it seems like a "soul" could be described as a "vaguely defined something that makes you able to feel empathy". But then again apparently Kitusnes in CoC 2 also do not have a soul and unlike demons they seem to be able to have empathy for other people (or at the very least other Kitsune) well enough unlike the demons of CoC 1.

 

[TheShepard256]

Going by CoC 1 alone it seems like a "soul" could be described as a "vaguely defined something that makes you able to feel empathy". But then again apparently Kitusnes in CoC 2 also do not have a soul and unlike demons they seem to be able to have empathy for other people (or at the very least other Kitsune) well enough unlike the demons of CoC 1.

It's not just empathy, it's also the ability to not be obsessed with your desires. The soul is also what separates demons from non-demons; The Observer has said multiple times that kitsune are technically demons because they lack individual souls (I'm pretty sure it's their connection to a communal soul that makes them normal people rather than demons). I think it's also implied that a lack of soul is the reason for demon's offspring always being imps.

Also, there's a wiki page on souls.

 

[Savin]

apparently Kitusnes in CoC 2 also do not have a soul

Kitsune are like liches; their souls are in Keros's pocket.

 

[hawke56]

Kitsune are like liches; their souls are in Keros's pocket.

If that is how it works, shouldn't demons whose Lethicite crystal is still lying around somewhere still be able to not be sociopaths as well until it is destroyed? Or are the Kitusnes able to retain their less selfish emotions because it is specifically a deity that safeguards their soul?

 

[Malpha]

If that is how it works, shouldn't demons whose Lethicite crystal is still lying around somewhere still be able to not be sociopaths as well until it is destroyed? Or are the Kitusnes able to retain their less selfish emotions because it is specifically a deity that safeguards their soul?

They keep themselves in check with regular feeding and the power of community. They can still go bad, and those that do are declared no face and hunted down.

 

[Starstruck]

Yeah, that's got to be the one I was overlooking and I do think you might be onto something. I re-ran the Palace of Ice to check something and found this:

Spoiler

View attachment 15766

Right, I hadn't played a Dark Knight, let alone courted Kasyrra until very recently, so when I did do it that particular excerpt stood out and rooted itself in my memory, then you and Alypia brought it up... xD

Spoiler

Lugging a little piece of Kasyrra around in your pocket or hanging from your neck certainly would explain how she is able to pull the Champion into "her" dream when they sleep too, not unlike the Amulet of Transference.