Tumblr Redesigns: The Good, the Bad, and the Weird

[HeroicSpirit]

Hey!

So, this thread is about examining Tumblr Redesigns and determining how good or bad they are, as well as what elements you feel are most interesting.

Usually, Tumblr Redesigns work on the idea of “less sexy, more practical” for girls and “more sexy, less practical” for boys. Of course, how well this works depends on who you ask. For some designs, the more practical element can improve

However, a few rules to set:

-1. This will not be simply hate train; while I do not except many of the redesigns to be liked, I expect at least some objectivity; so if they’re is anything you like that was changed, take note of that at least.
-2. If you want to post anything yourself, please provide a link to the creator of the redesign. This is because doing otherwise would be not giving them credit, however dubious that may be in your opinion. It’s kind of a shitty thing to do.
-3. Please do not harass the creators of the redesign. That would be pretty shitty of you, as well as probably a good way to get yourself banned.

With that out of the way, let’s begin with the below, which are all from the same artist:

Spoiler: Mauw Redesigns

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[ScarletteKnight]

The BNHA original designs are just better, though giving Ochaco jets is cool, and Ryuko's (and Momo's) outfits being revealing serves a purpose. I don't like the Bleach original or redesign tbh, but taking away the giant sword is dumb.

 

[Evil]

Its been a quite a while since I saw Kill la Kill, but wasn't the skimpiness of the Kamui related to the amount of blood being taken to activate the Life Fiber armour, or to minimize the Life Fibers overwhelming the user? So errr, congrats, the artist made Ryuko Matoi less fanservicey and more dead....

 

[sumgai]

Yup.

The time when Ryuko got brainwashed and wore that other white suit that nearly covered her almost killed her from the blood loss. And the fighting probably didn't help either.

Also, funny story, is that the anime design for the Bleach lady villian... I forget her name(like most of Bleach, I put it in my memory dump), but anyways, it's covering up more then what was in the manga. In the manga, she had some glorious underboob going.

 

[HeroicSpirit]

The BNHA original designs are just better, though giving Ochaco jets is cool, and Ryuko's (and Momo's) outfits being revealing serves a purpose. I don't like the Bleach original or redesign tbh, but taking away the giant sword is dumb.

I would say I prefer the redesign there because it has a more cohesive design that communicates the idea of a wasp with its more rapier-like weapon and sleek form-fitting outfit, and that I also think the original design is pretty garbage, especially with that ugly-ass skirt.

I agree that the Momo Redesign isn’t as good, though, although there are elements of the redesign I think are alright, like the change in belts. I would also probably have there be a zipper going down the middle instead though, since it would let her use her quirk without the risk of accidentally starting a public indecency scandal, as well as wear a bra underneath the costume. I doubt that would be perfectly

 

[HeroicSpirit]

Some more redesigns to look at:

Spoiler: More

Some Soulcalibur:

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More BNHA:

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[ScarletteKnight]

I would say I prefer the redesign there because it has a more cohesive design that communicates the idea of a wasp with its more rapier-like weapon and sleek form-fitting outfit, and that I also think the original design is pretty garbage, especially with that ugly-ass skirt.

Her character was supposed to be a wasp...?

Some more redesigns to look at:

Spoiler: More

Some Soulcalibur:

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More BNHA:

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While the ninja and Ivy redesigns are actually good, I don't care for the Sophitia one. Present Mic's doesn't work for him at all.

 

[JustSomeGuy]

Her character was supposed to be a wasp...?

Shark, Tia is supposed to be a shark.

 

[HeroicSpirit]

Her character was supposed to be a wasp...?

No, but it does have a clearer, more readable design than the mess that is the original design.

Shark, Tia is supposed to be a shark.

Ah, thank you. Honestly, I had no idea what it was suppose to be in the original design.

 

[Tinman]

I would say I prefer the redesign there because it has a more cohesive design that communicates the idea of a wasp with its more rapier-like weapon and sleek form-fitting outfit, and that I also think the original design is pretty garbage, especially with that ugly-ass skirt.

But she's not supposed to be wasp-like. Her main attack is to throw huge amounts of seawater at enemies at high speed. Her original sword is fin shaped for that reason, although I agree the skirt is ugly as hell.

Also, Momo's outfit is skimpy because she turns fat cells across her body into other objects. The bigger the object the more skin area she needs to release the creation from. If that skin isn't exposed her creation will just tear through her outfit. The fact that the sexiness of her outfit and Midnight's is necessary for their quirks is addressed in the series.

 

[HeroicSpirit]

But she's not supposed to be wasp-like. Her main attack is to throw huge amounts of seawater at enemies at high speed. Her original sword is fin shaped for that reason, although I agree the skirt is ugly as hell.

Also, Momo's outfit is skimpy because she turns fat cells across her body into other objects. The bigger the object the more skin area she needs to release the creation from. If that skin isn't exposed her creation will just tear through her outfit. The fact that the sexiness of her outfit and Midnight's is necessary for their quirks is addressed in the series.

Fair point; the redesign doesn’t communicate that, really, and even if it does look cool imo, it would work better for another character with a different set of powers.

Also, I posted another redesign that has a lot of skin available (specifically around the belly), but also doesn’t risk showing off her titties to the public.

Speaking of Midnight, I found this redesign of her:

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Also, again; if you find anything you’d like to post to the thread yourself, please do.

 

[Evil]

I fail to see the logic in redesigning a character whose motif was of a BDSM dominatrix and replace it with a somewhat generic superhero costume.

I'll be the first to admit that having a character, usually female, wearing next to nothing is just pure fanservice, even with their excuses (looking at you Quiet). But most of the redesigns I've seen have often felt less like making the character wear something more practical and more like an almost puritan desire to make sure no skin is seen. "THERE'S AN ANKLE! COVER IT LEST THE MASSES SEE IT AND ARE DRIVEN INTO A LUSTFUL FRENZY!" They also show a lack of understanding of the character. Take Emma Frost for example, who is one of the biggest examples of the stripperific costume and yet, it serves a purpose - it distracts men and allows her manipulate them, even without her abilities. Its just another weapon to her.

But that's neither here nor there, so I'll stop now.

 

[HeroicSpirit]

I fail to see the logic in redesigning a character whose motif was of a BDSM dominatrix and replace it with a somewhat generic superhero costume.

I'll be the first to admit that having a character, usually female, wearing next to nothing is just pure fanservice, even with their excuses (looking at you Quiet). But most of the redesigns I've seen have often felt less like making the character wear something more practical and more like an almost puritan desire to make sure no skin is seen. "THERE'S AN ANKLE! COVER IT LEST THE MASSES SEE IT AND ARE DRIVEN INTO A LUSTFUL FRENZY!" They also show a lack of understanding of the character. Take Emma Frost for example, who is one of the biggest examples of the stripperific costume and yet, it serves a purpose - it distracts men and allows her manipulate them, even without her abilities. Its just another weapon to her.

But that's neither here nor there, so I'll stop now.

I mean, I can see that, but the usual argument is that while Male costumes are allowed to be any number of things, Female outfits are only allowed to be some variant of sexy or cute, depending on the character.

Often times, they try to combat the idea they are prudish while also pushing their point by doing shit like the below:

Spoiler

Sourced, but only so you can see just how cringey these people can get:

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Edit:
I was watching this video by JoCat when at the five minute mark it talks about these sorts of things:

 

[ShySquare]

This thread is a potential minefield, but oh well, I'll give my two cents.
There is more than one type of sexy. These designs are all appealing in different ways. And the redesigns were done by different artists for different purposes, so lumping them all together is meaningless.

That said, how would you all feel if male (super)heroes were only ever allowed to wear sexy clothes like the Dandelion and Geralt redesigns ? Would it be heaven or hell ? Why ?

 

[Tinman]

This thread is a potential minefield, but oh well, I'll give my two cents.
There is more than one type of sexy. These designs are all appealing in different ways. And the redesigns were done by different artists for different purposes, so lumping them all together is meaningless.

That said, how would you all feel if male (super)heroes were only ever allowed to wear sexy clothes like the Dandelion and Geralt redesigns ? Would it be heaven or hell ? Why ?

Considering I'm into women, it'd be a lot like playing a gay porn game. Cringey and kind of gross. That said, there's a huge difference between men and women wearing revealing clothes. Even straight women respond positively to attractive female characters/actresses. You can stick Yennifer in a skimpy outfit without shrinking The Witchers potential audience. Stick Geralt in something like the redesign however, and your target audience effectively becomes horny women and gay men. These redesigns also typically assume that only women get sexualized. There's a ton of male characters that get put in revealing outfits. That just doesn't come up much because most of the people playing video games, reading comics, and watching shonen anime are men who aren't interested in the sexualized male characters.

 

[ShySquare]

Considering I'm into women, it'd be a lot like playing a gay porn game. Cringey and kind of gross. That said, there's a huge difference between men and women wearing revealing clothes.

I disagree with a lot of what you said, but mostly I'd like to understand what you mean when you say that there's a difference between men and women wearing revealing clothes ? Like, do you mean because of the chest ? Or is it something I'm not getting ?

 

[HeroicSpirit]

Considering I'm into women, it'd be a lot like playing a gay porn game. Cringey and kind of gross. That said, there's a huge difference between men and women wearing revealing clothes. Even straight women respond positively to attractive female characters/actresses. You can stick Yennifer in a skimpy outfit without shrinking The Witchers potential audience. Stick Geralt in something like the redesign however, and your target audience effectively becomes horny women and gay men. These redesigns also typically assume that only women get sexualized. There's a ton of male characters that get put in revealing outfits. That just doesn't come up much because most of the people playing video games, reading comics, and watching shonen anime are men who aren't interested in the sexualized male characters.

I mean, it’s suppose to make you feel uncomfortable; that’s the point.

The thing is, revealing or sexy outfits for men are the exception, not the rule, and there is a big difference between “Heroically Idealized” and “Sexualized Object.”

For a prominent example, Conan the barbarian is, while dressed in very little, ultimately a power fantasy. Sure, he might not wear much beyond a loincloth, but he isn’t ended as an object of affection for the audience. The same can be said of many other characters, such as Kratos or Naked Snake. Generally, they’re designed with features that are generally considered appealing to straight men (huge bulging muscles, heavy amounts facial hair, aggressive) rather than straight women (lean muscles, clean-shaven faces, broody.)

In essence, Male characters are suppose to work as avatars for the player, and have more than one body type. Meanwhile, it’s the opposite way for female characters, regardless of how revealing their outfits are, since even if they have deep characters, they are not really intended to be related to.

This isn’t to say exceptions don’t exist; obviously, they do. However, whenever they pop up, a lot of gamers get really upset because it’s not designed for them, so most female characters end up having the same goddamn body type and face.

An example of this is SAO, whose Sameface Syndrome can be demonstrated by the below gif:

(I think it speaks for itself.)

 

[ShySquare]

I mean, it’s suppose to make you feel uncomfortable; that’s the point.

The thing is, revealing or sexy outfits for men are the exception, not the rule, and there is a big difference between “Heroically Idealized” and “Sexualized Object.”

For a prominent example, Conan the barbarian is, while dressed in very little, ultimately a power fantasy. Sure, he might not wear much beyond a loincloth, but he isn’t ended as an object of affection for the audience. The same can be said of many other characters, such as Kratos or Naked Snake. Generally, they’re designed with features that are generally considered appealing to straight men (huge bulging muscles, heavy amounts facial hair, aggressive) rather than straight women (lean muscles, clean-shaven faces, broody.)

In essence, Male characters are suppose to work as avatars for the player, and have more than one body type. Meanwhile, it’s the opposite way for female characters, regardless of how revealing their outfits are, since even if they have deep characters, they are not really intended to be related to.

This isn’t to say exceptions don’t exist; obviously, they do. However, whenever they pop up, a lot of gamers get really upset because it’s not designed for them, so most female characters end up having the same goddamn body type and face.

An example of this is SAO, whose Sameface Syndrome can be demonstrated by the below gif:

(I think it speaks for itself.)

Yesss!!!! All of this^^^^

The point isn't that "sexy female character = bad", it's that "all female characters must be sexual all the time = bad".

For example, there are cases where I (AFAB) don't mind sexualised characters. Example: Midnight from BNHA:

Spoiler: Reasons Midnight doesn't make me uncomfortable

• a) though sexy, her costume is still moderately practical (her heels aren't that high, no cleavage so her boobs can't burst out, she handles her whip like an actual weapon, etc). And she can afford this kind of costume since she's a mid-range fighter anyway
  
  
• b) her combat ability doesn't rely on her sexiness (her strategy is to hold on until her quirk disables her foe by putting them to sleep, and she does not only use gentle persuasion to do that)
  
  
• c) her outfit is obviously a parody/hommage to the sexualised swimsuits a lot of comics superheroin wear/used to wear
  
  
• d) she still has a distinct personality and backstory; Midnight is unique amongst the cast, not just "Eyecandy #356"
  
  
• e) she's the only character who is that sexualised in the manga. You could argue Momo is too, but there's enough variety in all the other female characters that I don't mind one or two sexy female characters. In the cast, we also have : cute badass gravity girl, actual frog girl, old granny who heals with kisses, invisible girl, toxic alien girl, hero's chubby mom, dead badass mentor of the hero's mentor, loud spiky mom of the rival, shapeshifting vampire yandere, badass bunny warrior, etc.
  
  
• f) though not to the same extent, some of the guys's suits are pretty revealing too

In short, unlike many other "sexy female characters", I personnally don't mind Midnight because she does not break my suspension of disbelief.

@Tinman You're really underestimating the percentage of women interested in comics, video games and shonen ; I think the gender split was close to 50/50 in the latest studies ?
like, where do you think all the fan works and meta analyses come from ? Especially for BNHA ? And the Witcher TV show is probably going to result in even more female players for the video games

 

[Tinman]

I mean, it’s suppose to make you feel uncomfortable; that’s the point.

The thing is, revealing or sexy outfits for men are the exception, not the rule, and there is a big difference between “Heroically Idealized” and “Sexualized Object.”

For a prominent example, Conan the barbarian is, while dressed in very little, ultimately a power fantasy. Sure, he might not wear much beyond a loincloth, but he isn’t ended as an object of affection for the audience. The same can be said of many other characters, such as Kratos or Naked Snake. Generally, they’re designed with features that are generally considered appealing to straight men (huge bulging muscles, heavy amounts facial hair, aggressive) rather than straight women (lean muscles, clean-shaven faces, broody.)

In essence, Male characters are suppose to work as avatars for the player, and have more than one body type. Meanwhile, it’s the opposite way for female characters, regardless of how revealing their outfits are, since even if they have deep characters, they are not really intended to be related to.

This isn’t to say exceptions don’t exist; obviously, they do. However, whenever they pop up, a lot of gamers get really upset because it’s not designed for them, so most female characters end up having the same goddamn body type and face.

An example of this is SAO, whose Sameface Syndrome can be demonstrated by the below gif:

(I think it speaks for itself.)

SAO is a pretty terrible example for several reasons. The least of which is that Sameface Syndrome is common in a lot of anime. To the point where male and female characters can often be swapped with each other just by changing hair styles and clothes. More importantly though, very few gamers get upset at female characters not being designed as sex objects. What people object to is being demonized for this fallacy that all female characters are sexualized, then force-fed flat poorly written obese/lesbian/masculine women who exist purely to rage against the system rather than for any genuine purpose. If game companies would stop relying on tokenism to push "diversity" in the hopes of appeasing non-gamers there'd be way less backlash from gamers.

This obviously goes way beyond video games too. Admiral Holdo was a brand new character whose one trait was to have a plan and tell no one about it until morale dipped so low half the crew mutinied, and then she was proven right at the end and given a heroic sacrifice to make Poe seem like the bad guy in that whole situation. There are so many better ways to tell that story that don't rely on bashing male characters. Why not have Leia tell Poe the plan in the first place only for him and Finn to look for a different solution so they can save the Resistance' few remaining ships? No new characters needed, Poe has a valid reason for wanting a different plan, and we still have a strong female leader for little girls to look up to. And that's just the first idea to come to mind while writing this. Does it upset me to be called a sexist for disliking The Last Jedi? Yes. Do I have a problem with Leia, a woman, leading the resistance? No. If you actually talked to people about what is upsetting them in these situations you'd likely find most dislike cheap writing and tokenism, not female characters. Most just lack the ability to clearly explain what it is that makes them dislike the writing.

I disagree with a lot of what you said, but mostly I'd like to understand what you mean when you say that there's a difference between men and women wearing revealing clothes ? Like, do you mean because of the chest ? Or is it something I'm not getting ?

Exactly what I said. Straight women are proven to respond positively to attractive women. It's why ads targeting women can have models in their underwear and still boost sales. Meanwhile straight men avoid buying underwear because the packaging displays another guy's bulge prominently. The female form is more appealing even to those that aren't sexually attracted to it. As a result scantily clad women don't hurt sales, while scantily clad men can hurt sales.

Yesss!!!! All of this^^^^

The point isn't that "sexy female character = bad", it's that "all female characters must be sexual all the time = bad".

For example, there are cases where I (AFAB) don't mind sexualised characters. Example: Midnight from BNHA:

Spoiler: Reasons Midnight doesn't make me uncomfortable

• a) though sexy, her costume is still moderately practical (her heels aren't that high, no cleavage so her boobs can't burst out, she handles her whip like an actual weapon, etc). And she can afford this kind of costume since she's a mid-range fighter anyway
  
  
• b) her combat ability doesn't rely on her sexiness (her strategy is to hold on until her quirk disables her foe by putting them to sleep, and she does not only use gentle persuasion to do that)
  
  
• c) her outfit is obviously a parody/hommage to the sexualised swimsuits a lot of comics superheroin wear/used to wear
  
  
• d) she still has a distinct personality and backstory; Midnight is unique amongst the cast, not just "Eyecandy #356"
  
  
• e) she's the only character who is that sexualised in the manga. You could argue Momo is too, but there's enough variety in all the other female characters that I don't mind one or two sexy female characters. In the cast, we also have : cute badass gravity girl, actual frog girl, old granny who heals with kisses, invisible girl, toxic alien girl, hero's chubby mom, dead badass mentor of the hero's mentor, loud spiky mom of the rival, shapeshifting vampire yandere, badass bunny warrior, etc.
  
  
• f) though not to the same extent, some of the guys's suits are pretty revealing too

In short, unlike many other "sexy female characters", I personnally don't mind Midnight because she does not break my suspension of disbelief.

@Tinman You're really underestimating the percentage of women interested in comics, video games and shonen ; I think the gender split was close to 50/50 in the latest studies ?
like, where do you think all the fan works and meta analyses come from ? Especially for BNHA ? And the Witcher TV show is probably going to result in even more female players for the video games

But not all female characters are sexy, let alone all the time. If you think that's happening it seems more like you're fixating on the sexy female characters and ignoring the rest. Since you talked about MHA's Midnight, let's look at some more shonen anime. How many female characters are sexualized in Naruto? Most of the female characters are more practically dressed than the titular orange jackass. There are about 5 adult kunoichi that really get sexualized, and most of the others are random background characters Naruto and Pervy Sage peep on at the hot springs. Plus arguably Temari. I don't think I've met a Naruto fan that didn't have a thing for Temari. Compared to the absolutely massive cast of that show those numbers are nothing.

The gender split for interest in those areas is nowhere near 50/50. Those studies typically use overly broad definitions of what constitutes a comic or video game to create false statistics. I think we can all agree that there's a big difference between playing a slot machine game on your phone when bored and spending 300+ hours on a Witcher game. Or even between playing facebook's farmville and completing a playthrough of Harvest Moon or Stardew Valley. Those studies ignore that difference. So when 80% of the people playing slots on their phone are women and 80% of people playing Witcher games are men the study combines those 2 to say that 50% of gamers are women. The Witcher specifically might have a larger female audience thanks to the books, but those female players don't spill into other RPGs let alone other genres of video game. There simply isn't an interest there despite a lot of work to create some. And not just from game companies. I've spent my whole life trying to get more women to enjoy playing video games. I don't know a single gamer who doesn't want to share their hobby with the women they know.
Men can be artists and writers too. Why do you think fanart and analyses only come from women?

 

[HeroicSpirit]

SAO is a pretty terrible example for several reasons. The least of which is that Sameface Syndrome is common in a lot of anime. To the point where male and female characters can often be swapped with each other just by changing hair styles and clothes. More importantly though, very few gamers get upset at female characters not being designed as sex objects. What people object to is being demonized for this fallacy that all female characters are sexualized, then force-fed flat poorly written obese/lesbian/masculine women who exist purely to rage against the system rather than for any genuine purpose. If game companies would stop relying on tokenism to push "diversity" in the hopes of appeasing non-gamers there'd be way less backlash from gamers.

This obviously goes way beyond video games too. Admiral Holdo was a brand new character whose one trait was to have a plan and tell no one about it until morale dipped so low half the crew mutinied, and then she was proven right at the end and given a heroic sacrifice to make Poe seem like the bad guy in that whole situation. There are so many better ways to tell that story that don't rely on bashing male characters. Why not have Leia tell Poe the plan in the first place only for him and Finn to look for a different solution so they can save the Resistance' few remaining ships? No new characters needed, Poe has a valid reason for wanting a different plan, and we still have a strong female leader for little girls to look up to. And that's just the first idea to come to mind while writing this. Does it upset me to be called a sexist for disliking The Last Jedi? Yes. Do I have a problem with Leia, a woman, leading the resistance? No. If you actually talked to people about what is upsetting them in these situations you'd likely find most dislike cheap writing and tokenism, not female characters. Most just lack the ability to clearly explain what it is that makes them dislike the writing.



Exactly what I said. Straight women are proven to respond positively to attractive women. It's why ads targeting women can have models in their underwear and still boost sales. Meanwhile straight men avoid buying underwear because the packaging displays another guy's bulge prominently. The female form is more appealing even to those that aren't sexually attracted to it. As a result scantily clad women don't hurt sales, while scantily clad men can hurt sales.



But not all female characters are sexy, let alone all the time. If you think that's happening it seems more like you're fixating on the sexy female characters and ignoring the rest. Since you talked about MHA's Midnight, let's look at some more shonen anime. How many female characters are sexualized in Naruto? Most of the female characters are more practically dressed than the titular orange jackass. There are about 5 adult kunoichi that really get sexualized, and most of the others are random background characters Naruto and Pervy Sage peep on at the hot springs. Plus arguably Temari. I don't think I've met a Naruto fan that didn't have a thing for Temari. Compared to the absolutely massive cast of that show those numbers are nothing.

The gender split for interest in those areas is nowhere near 50/50. Those studies typically use overly broad definitions of what constitutes a comic or video game to create false statistics. I think we can all agree that there's a big difference between playing a slot machine game on your phone when bored and spending 300+ hours on a Witcher game. Or even between playing facebook's farmville and completing a playthrough of Harvest Moon or Stardew Valley. Those studies ignore that difference. So when 80% of the people playing slots on their phone are women and 80% of people playing Witcher games are men the study combines those 2 to say that 50% of gamers are women. The Witcher specifically might have a larger female audience thanks to the books, but those female players don't spill into other RPGs let alone other genres of video game. There simply isn't an interest there despite a lot of work to create some. And not just from game companies. I've spent my whole life trying to get more women to enjoy playing video games. I don't know a single gamer who doesn't want to share their hobby with the women they know.
Men can be artists and writers too. Why do you think fanart and analyses only come from women?

1. Ah yes, having lesbian and overweight female characters totally diminished the sales figures! Such as in games like Borderlands and Overwatch! Not a lot of people playing either of those two! It’s not like they’re massive franchises!

2. I personally felt the Last Jedi was pretty alright film and much better than the travesty that is Rise of Skywalker, something I haven’t seen but already hate based on the fact that, from what I know, everything that was interesting about the Last Jedi was basically thrown in the garbage, especially in regards to Rey.

3. Determining things value based on how many people like them isn’t a good argument: a lot of people like Riverdale and the Flash, and those shows are absolute trash. Such is the same with character designs looking all the same.

4. I mean, the fact they’re not many female characters at all is a problem in its own right, and the percentage of female characters sexualized vs the percentage of male characters sexuallized is very disproportionate.

5. You’re making some pretty broad statements there, especially since, from what I know, a lot of the games boys play are slot machines; they’re just packaged with a first person shooter. Also, I think I’ll just leave this video for you, at least regarding your last statement about Male Gamers wanting to share their hobby:

6. Yes, male artists and writers create some fan theories and fan art, obviously; I’m male too. It’s just pointing out a lot of fan art and fan theories are from women too. I mean, there are 6299 Naruto/Sasuke works on Ao3, most of which I pressume are ah least mostly written by women, compared to the 1876 Hinata/Naruto works and 2895 Sasuke/Sakura works.

 

[ShySquare]

Exactly what I said. Straight women are proven to respond positively to attractive women.

I'm sorry to disappoint you, but straight women respond even more positively to hot, non threatening guys.

It's why ads targeting women can have models in their underwear and still boost sales. Meanwhile straight men avoid buying underwear because the packaging displays another guy's bulge prominently. The female form is more appealing even to those that aren't sexually attracted to it. As a result scantily clad women don't hurt sales, while scantily clad men can hurt sales.

That's a complex topic to talk about, but no, the female form isn't inherently more appealing (much to my chagrin lol).
I'm sure gay men and straight women would rather have a scantily clad man in their ads, but the world of advertising has been targetting straight white men for a while because overall they have the most buying power, so scantily clad women it is.

And I don't know that it's not hurting sales ? Maybe it is, but maybe ads targeted to straight men are so prevalent that women have no choice but to buy products with this kind of ads ? Or maybe other demographics don't buy their products only based on ads ?

But not all female characters are sexy, let alone all the time. If you think that's happening it seems more like you're fixating on the sexy female characters and ignoring the rest. Since you talked about MHA's Midnight, let's look at some more shonen anime. How many female characters are sexualized in Naruto? Most of the female characters are more practically dressed than the titular orange jackass. There are about 5 adult kunoichi that really get sexualized, and most of the others are random background characters Naruto and Pervy Sage peep on at the hot springs. Plus arguably Temari. I don't think I've met a Naruto fan that didn't have a thing for Temari. Compared to the absolutely massive cast of that show those numbers are nothing.

You're right, Naruto's female characters aren't overly sexualised as a whole, which is why I loved the manga when I was a kid. But like, Naruto is just one show.
Compare it to Bleach, another big name success, or One Piece, or Fairy Tales, or the trillion other shows where all the female characters serve as fanservice (not only, but it's still there). Unless they're comically ugly, because ugly women are always jokes.
My point still stands : there isn't enough variety. And it's uncomfortable, cringey and boring.

The gender split for interest in those areas is nowhere near 50/50. Those studies typically use overly broad definitions of what constitutes a comic or video game to create false statistics. I think we can all agree that there's a big difference between playing a slot machine game on your phone when bored and spending 300+ hours on a Witcher game. Or even between playing facebook's farmville and completing a playthrough of Harvest Moon or Stardew Valley. Those studies ignore that difference. So when 80% of the people playing slots on their phone are women and 80% of people playing Witcher games are men the study combines those 2 to say that 50% of gamers are women. The Witcher specifically might have a larger female audience thanks to the books, but those female players don't spill into other RPGs let alone other genres of video game. There simply isn't an interest there despite a lot of work to create some. And not just from game companies. I've spent my whole life trying to get more women to enjoy playing video games. I don't know a single gamer who doesn't want to share their hobby with the women they know.

By definition, any game that's played on a screen is a video game, so you're nitpicking a bit.

It is interesting that you bring up that men and women are typically interested in different types of video games, though. That's mostly due to the fact that different types of games try to cater to different audiences, and one type tends to cater to one gender only.

Example : take the romance options. In most games where you have romanceable companions, they're all or mostly women, because the main character is typically a man. So any romance in the game, and any character involved in it, are gonna resonate most with straight male players, because they're heterosexual romances told from the point of view of a cis straight man. So any player who's not straight, cis or a man is going to resonate less with the story.

For instance, in Persona 5 you can only date female characters, and a lot of female fans were disappointed and wanted ATLUS to fix it because they really, really wanted to date the boys. Same thing with Persona 4 and 3.
And that's just one example of one aspect of one game that lessens the enjoyment of players who aren't cis straight men.​

So it's not really surprising that men and women like different types of games at all. But it is a shame, and the solution is to make more diverse games, for all types of games.

 

[Tinman]

I'm sorry to disappoint you, but straight women respond even more positively to hot, non threatening guys.

That's a complex topic to talk about, but no, the female form isn't inherently more appealing (much to my chagrin lol).
I'm sure gay men and straight women would rather have a scantily clad man in their ads, but the world of advertising has been targetting straight white men for a while because overall they have the most buying power, so scantily clad women it is.

And I don't know that it's not hurting sales ? Maybe it is, but maybe ads targeted to straight men are so prevalent that women have no choice but to buy products with this kind of ads ? Or maybe other demographics don't buy their products only based on ads ?

That's not supported by the statistics. Women spend more money than men. Most ads target women because they're more likely to be the ones buying. What advertising firms have found works is to use attractive women regardless of targeted demographic.

You're right, Naruto's female characters aren't overly sexualised as a whole, which is why I loved the manga when I was a kid. But like, Naruto is just one show.
Compare it to Bleach, another big name success, or One Piece, or Fairy Tales, or the trillion other shows where all the female characters serve as fanservice (not only, but it's still there). Unless they're comically ugly, because ugly women are always jokes.
My point still stands : there isn't enough variety. And it's uncomfortable, cringey and boring.

Have you watched any of the shows you listed? I can count on one hand the number of women sexualized in Bleach. One Piece switched to a hyper simplified stylized female form so that the artist didn't kill himself maintaining deadlines like so many other mangaka. Fairy Tale strips Lucy as a recurring gag, and it's two other main female characters are a non-sexualized loli and an armor clad super badass. Even Cana, despite her bikini top, is pretty much never depicted as anything more than a binge drinking tomboy who can throw down with the rest of the guild. You really are hyperfocused on the sexualized characters to the detriment of everything else.

By definition, any game that's played on a screen is a video game, so you're nitpicking a bit.

It is interesting that you bring up that men and women are typically interested in different types of video games, though. That's mostly due to the fact that different types of games try to cater to different audiences, and one type tends to cater to one gender only.

Example : take the romance options. In most games where you have romanceable companions, they're all or mostly women, because the main character is typically a man. So any romance in the game, and any character involved in it, are gonna resonate most with straight male players, because they're heterosexual romances told from the point of view of a cis straight man. So any player who's not straight, cis or a man is going to resonate less with the story.

For instance, in Persona 5 you can only date female characters, and a lot of female fans were disappointed and wanted ATLUS to fix it because they really, really wanted to date the boys. Same thing with Persona 4 and 3.
And that's just one example of one aspect of one game that lessens the enjoyment of players who aren't cis straight men.​

So it's not really surprising that men and women like different types of games at all. But it is a shame, and the solution is to make more diverse games, for all types of games.

So here you're just ignoring every point I made to keep pushing diversity at the solution to a problem that you can't prove exists without baseless assumptions. Why did you even bother replying?

 

[ShySquare]

That's not supported by the statistics. Women spend more money than men.

Not by choice. Ever heard of the pink tax ? And then there's the fact that women are usually the ones who buy groceries for their whole family, Add to that that there are certain hygiene products women can't do without - like the pill, or pads. So of course the average amount is higher.

Most ads target women because they're more likely to be the ones buying. What advertising firms have found works is to use attractive women regardless of targeted demographic.

This study begs to differ. And this one. This one says sex doesn't even sell that well in ads. This one too.

Have you watched any of the shows you listed? I can count on one hand the number of women sexualized in Bleach. One Piece switched to a hyper simplified stylized female form so that the artist didn't kill himself maintaining deadlines like so many other mangaka. Fairy Tale strips Lucy as a recurring gag, and it's two other main female characters are a non-sexualized loli and an armor clad super badass. Even Cana, despite her bikini top, is pretty much never depicted as anything more than a binge drinking tomboy who can throw down with the rest of the guild. You really are hyperfocused on the sexualized characters to the detriment of everything else.

Yep! I read the mangas. I used to be fairly weebish, and still am sometimes.
To you those female characters aren't sexualised, but believe me, they are. I don't like that gag, and I feel it's pure fanservice. There's nothing wrong with fanservice, but Fairy Tail in particular has way too much.
You don't need big boobs to simplify your art style - if anything it makes it more complex, lol

I don't need to hyperfocus on sexualised female characters, they're everywhere. You just don't notice as much because they don't make you uncomfortable/ruin your suspension of disbelief.
Like. Imagine if every male character was dressed like the Jaskier or Geralt redesigns above. You said it would feel uncomfortable and cringey.
Why do you insist women (especially straight women) don't feel the same as you when they see needlessly sexualised female characters ? Especially when there aren't that many well-developed female characters in media to begin with.

So here you're just ignoring every point I made to keep pushing diversity at the solution to a problem that you can't prove exists without baseless assumptions.

I'm blatantly not ignoring your points. I'm explaining that while you may not consider Harvest moon or puzzle games video games, they are.
I then provided an example (using what you would consider a """"real game"""") of why different genders are attracted to different types of games. Namely, because some types of games tend to cater to different gender. If the industry started making RPGs targeted specifically towards straight women, or gay men, or lesbians, or trans people, then those games would become even more popular amongst those demographics.

In short, you've got it backwards : it's not because less women don't play RPGs that RPGs don't cater to them ; it's because RPGs don't cater to them that less women play RPGs.

Why did you even bother replying?

Because I think you're wrong, but I also think you sound reasonable, so I think it's worth a shot to try and explain to you why I think you're wrong.

 

[Tinman]

Not by choice. Ever heard of the pink tax ? And then there's the fact that women are usually the ones who buy groceries for their whole family, Add to that that there are certain hygiene products women can't do without - like the pill, or pads. So of course the average amount is higher.

The pink tax has been debunked on numerous occassions. Women spend more because they shop more. Not just for everyday goods either. Furniture, jewelry, clothes, etc.

This study begs to differ. And this one. This one says sex doesn't even sell that well in ads. This one too.

This study says people in general remember ads better when women are present as "decorative" models. This study found that attractive "average" body sized women generate more positive response than plus sized women. And this study finds that despite supposedly disliking the portrayal of women in these ads women showed a positive attitude to ads with decorative models.

Yep! I read the mangas. I used to be fairly weebish, and still am sometimes.
To you those female characters aren't sexualised, but believe me, they are. I don't like that gag, and I feel it's pure fanservice. There's nothing wrong with fanservice, but Fairy Tail in particular has way too much.
You don't need big boobs to simplify your art style - if anything it makes it more complex, lol

How is Wendy sexualized? Or Juvia? Or Bisca? Or Carla? I agree the gag gets used too much but most of the female characters are not really sexualized. If you believe they are that sounds more like a you problem than a Fairy Tale problem. As for the One Piece style change, women are basically two curvy lines now. They can be drawn quickly and filled in later by an assistant, which is also why most new female character wind up looking like clones of Nami except for the ones introduced on Whole Cake Island. It really is just an oversimplification of the female form so that an old man isn't pushed into an early grave by an industry known to do so. Can it be called hypersexualized? Sure, it's the sexual characteristics that have been exaggerated by this oversimplified style. But it's a far cry from the intentional sexualization and objectification you're talking about.

I don't need to hyperfocus on sexualised female characters, they're everywhere. You just don't notice as much because they don't make you uncomfortable/ruin your suspension of disbelief.
Like. Imagine if every male character was dressed like the Jaskier or Geralt redesigns above. You said it would feel uncomfortable and cringey.
Why do you insist women (especially straight women) don't feel the same as you when they see needlessly sexualised female characters ? Especially when there aren't that many well-developed female characters in media to begin with.

Because they're not everywhere, and the data suggests women are less likely to experience said discomfort. Why should I ignore decades of successful business and statistical data over the word of someone who is clearly exaggerating the scale of the problem?

I'm blatantly not ignoring your points. I'm explaining that while you may not consider Harvest moon or puzzle games video games, they are.
I then provided an example (using what you would consider a """"real game"""") of why different genders are attracted to different types of games. Namely, because some types of games tend to cater to different gender. If the industry started making RPGs targeted specifically towards straight women, or gay men, or lesbians, or trans people, then those games would become even more popular amongst those demographics.

I do consider Harvest Moon a real game. I was explicitly comparing it to the relatively similar Farmville, which is not a video game beyond the most technical of definitions. There's a difference between actual video games and the money-sucking addiction simulators people use to pass time on the toilet. I just wanted to make the closest comparison possible so you wouldn't try to claim I was being too extreme with my example. If you weren't ignoring my point you really should have known that.

As for target demographics, game companies have tried expanding to new demographics with no success. Comics have done the same and been on a steady decline as their pursuit of new demographics alienates their core readers. Most women are simply not interested. You seem to be the one that has it backwards by believing interest can be forced with enough effort. Even in the early days of Tetris and Space Invaders video games were a primarily male interest. No amount of targeting seems to be capable of changing that. Maybe it's time to stop assuming otherwise and let people enjoy their hobbies without demonizing them for enjoying something that "insert minority group here" is less likely to enjoy.

Because I think you're wrong, but I also think you sound reasonable, so I think it's worth a shot to try and explain to you why I think you're wrong.

If you think I'm reasonable, try taking a few more moments to re-read the things I've written. I know my grammar isn't the best but my meaning should still be fairly clear. I do have good reasons to think the way I do. You on the other hand seem to have emotional reasons to think the way you do. Your assertion that sexualized women are everywhere isn't even true in the few examples discussed in this thread. Your emotions are understandable given how frequently this topic comes up in various forms of media, and how hard the narrative that women are objectified gets pushed. But it doesn't change the fact that there's lots of evidence to contradict how you feel about the matter.