Stat max?

OblivOreo

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May 21, 2022
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I want to preface this by saying this is NOT a criticism, I'm just genuinely curious. I find game design fascinating, and since I, personally, haven't run into something like this (or if I have its been extremely rare/I've forgotten) I'm asking for insight/opinions.

Has anyone asked or does anyone know what the philosophy was behind having a maximum value for stats that increases as you level?
Or rather, maybe,the reason why, instead of having a stat value threshold (ex. physique=14), we have checks that are based on a "percentage towards max" value(ex. physique > 70%).

And what is everyone else's opinions on it?

I can see this maybe being a "balancing" measure? But it can also lead to some tasks, that may have been relatively easy starting out, becoming increasingly difficult as you level up... Which can leave some players feeling like they've made negative progress... It also almost prevents a certain level of "you're not skilled enough to do this" unless you hard code a character level requirement... which may not give a player the same satisfaction as trying and realizing "oh, that's a higher level for a reason"

On the other hand, it somewhat forces players to think about what stats they're putting their points into, or forces them to train (which, tbh, I didn't know was possible until recently... I genuinely thought Ten Ton Gym was just for increasing tone without mods ), which, by the story of the game, they may not have the "time" to do. It also, more or less, prevents Captain Steele from becoming obscenely broken, by giving them a top threshold to their power, which, I can see the merits for, as a designer. It also, I suppose, lends to a more sandbox approach. As long as you have the areas unlocked, and have decent enough gear, you can go almost anywhere... which, for a game where a large portion of the content revolves around sleeping with as many aliens across the universe as possible, is a good thing. You WANT to have the freedom to go anywhere (and bang anything).
 

Theron

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Nov 8, 2018
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With an increasing cap, 13/level is enough to keep two stats maxed and one reasonably high. If you could dump all of your points into one stat, you could max it by about level 8 (assuming a max of 100) but all your other stats would be terrible.
A lot of transformatives that boost stats cap at a percentage of your current max.
It gives a tighter expected stat range for designing encounters:
You get 1/2 Physique/Aim to Melee/Ranged damage, respectively, so you'd get 6.5 damage/level, instead of 2.5.
You'd out scale opposed checks (typically Attacker Stat/2 + (random 1-20) vs Defender Stat/2 + 10). Or they'd balance so you'd need maximum investment.
Or just take a few weeks and get everything to whatever the max is at level 1.
Dumb4Cum got nerfed because it let you get 70 Intelligence at level 10, which is insane on a Tech Specialist. I also feel like it got some of the TS Perks nerfed before D4C did. Imagine having 120 Intelligence with all the things that Tech Specialists get to run off of Intelligence. Smugglers get 1/2 Intelligence to Sneak Attack/Aimed Shot as well.

As for time to do things other than the main quest, while the Cousin gets to the Mhen'ga Probe first, no matter what you do, the player can get Tarkus' first. At that point, It seems reasonable to me to feel that you can take some time to go train stats. Likewise Myrellion and Zheng Shi. Personally, I usually held off on seriously training at the Ten Ton Gym until after I got the Augment-Weave Armor from Zheng Shi for it's double Soreness recovery.

It's somewhat counter-intuitive, but you actually don't want to put your Affinity into a stat you intend to max with Level Up points, because it mitigates the diminishing returns of Stat Training as you approach the cap, while Level Up points are always one-to-one. It's also possible to bank enough points to never have to Train again after you reach certain stat totals.
 
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OblivOreo

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May 21, 2022
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As for time to do things not for the main quest, while the Cousin gets to the Mhen'ga Probe first, no matter what you do, the player can get Tarkus' first.
Genuinely didn't know this. I don't think I've EVER gotten tarkus's probe first. I always end up in a bidding war at Shekka's... I guess I just assumed that was how it was written to be. Neat!
And I know it doesn't really matter, I was just saying, like, within the logic of the story, at least to me (and maybe I'm in the minority), it feels like the point is to get them as fast as you can while stopping occasionally to bang a hot alien or two on the way.
It's somewhat counter-intuitive, but you actually don't want to put your Affinity into a stat you intend to max with Level Up points, because it mitigates the diminishing returns of Stat Training as you approach the cap, while Level Up points are always one-to-one. It's also possible to bank enough points to never have to Train again after you reach certain stat totals.
I actually JUST read this in another thread (was it you?) about newbie builds. I'm not "new" to the game, but I AM pretty bad at optimizing game mechanics, so hearing peoples' input on how to do that has been nice.
I'm usually the "dump everything into my attack stat" person, if I'm being honest. Philosophy has pretty much always been "hit first and hit hard." After all, they can't hit me if they're dead before they get a chance. That or max defense and just passively wait it out... lol
It gives a tighter expected stat range for designing encounters. You get 1/2 Physique/Aim to Melee/Ranged damage, respectively.
This... makes a lot of sense, actually.
 

Theron

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Genuinely didn't know this. I don't think I've EVER gotten tarkus's probe first. I always end up in a bidding war at Shekka's... I guess I just assumed that was how it was written to be. Neat!
Well, you do always end up in a bidding war. The important thing is if you win, the Cousin doesn't know what the coordinates are for the next Probe, and says they'll just follow you.
And I know it doesn't really matter, I was just saying, like, within the logic of the story, at least to me (and maybe I'm in the minority), it feels like the point is to get them as fast as you can while stopping occasionally to bang a hot alien or two on the way.
The main thing that makes it ASAP is the threat of the Cousin getting them first. But if they don't know the coordinates, they can't get too far ahead. Myrellion, they get there first, but you get the Probe and it's retrieved by Steele Tech employees. Zheng Shi, it's on the Sidewinder, and it never leaves. While it might be plausible that the Cousin could sneak onto the ship after you leave, if you steal the Sidewinder, it's highly unlikely.
I actually JUST read this in another thread (was it you?) about newbie builds. I'm not "new" to the game, but I AM pretty bad at optimizing game mechanics, so hearing peoples' input on how to do that has been nice.
It may very well have been. I give this advice a lot.
I'm usually the "dump everything into my attack stat" person, if I'm being honest. Philosophy has pretty much always been "hit first and hit hard." After all, they can't hit me if they're dead before they get a chance. That or max defense and just passively wait it out... lol
I did a Melee Drone Tech Specialist run where I neglected everything except Intelligence, jus to see how far I could get. I got all the way through Zheng Shi. Used the Atma Armor until I upgraded to Augment-Weave.
Oh no! Feruze reduced my 3 Physique by half. What will I do now that I do 1.5 less damage?
I didn't even use Dumb4Cum on that character. Granted, this was before the nerfs to Charge Weapon and Rapid Recharge. I also abused the FZR Fire Suppression System's Deep Freeze effect for the Janeria and Shizuya. That also got nerfed.

It's kind of important to encourage investing in more than one stat. A lot of enemies have disables that are resisted by Physique, Reflexes or Willpower.
 

OblivOreo

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May 21, 2022
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Well, you do always end up in a bidding war. The important thing is if you win, the Cousin doesn't know what the coordinates are for the next Probe, and says they'll just follow you.
Ah, okay, yeah. I thought you meant you can find it first. lol
It may very well have been. I give this advice a lot.
I checked and it absolutely was. XD You helped me start my newest character, so thanks!
It's kind of important to encourage investing in more than one stat. A lot of enemies have disables that are resisted by Physique, Reflexes or Willpower.
Oh, yeah. Thanks to the stat maxes in this game, I've kind of had to (which is why I went to the build thread)
I just meant in games IN GENERAL
 

arch99

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Dec 24, 2019
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Yeah optimal stat maxing, for me, someone who always plans to max every stat in this game, is ignore Int early game (can easily be farmed via Syri, though that gets much harder later in the game as she progresses, so I stop bothering), ignore phys/reflexes (can slightly more annoyingly be farmed at 10 ton, and while progressing through Mirrin's storyline, and max willpower at every level (hard/not infinite to farm), and aim after training a bit with the archer dude on Mhenga around level 2-3 (it's a pain in the ass and limited in how you can train that).
So, levels 1-3, I just max willpower and let my phys and reflexes suck, train aim with archer guy, and train int to max with syri since it's holding a button. After that, I start maxing willpower + aim, and only start putting points into int once syri's off mhen'ga in late game. Phys and Reflexes I farm up until I can finish both off with leftover points - say, I have 17 points, I'd get phys to 42 and relflexes to 41 for example, then cap off both and be done with it all.
 

arch99

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Dec 24, 2019
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I'm a girl, her extremely heterosexuality makes me fairly uninterested in engaging with or recruiting her. It pisses me off every time I see all these characters who are exclusively het but basically none who are exclusively gay.
 

SmithEK

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I'm a girl, her extremely heterosexuality makes me fairly uninterested in engaging with or recruiting her. It pisses me off every time I see all these characters who are exclusively het but basically none who are exclusively gay.
Yeah I agree but maybe (wishful thinking) Ramis writer might expand.. doubtful but who knows. Riya (racist human cop) you could say is a lesbian.. she only fks pure female Steeles.

Does min maxing make the play easier?
 

arch99

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Yes, since all of the stats have pretty strong effects on gameplay, minmaxing makes the game much easier.
 

Theron

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Ramis strikes me as deliberately playing against type: Tall, heavily muscled, heavy drinker? Must be a butch lesbian! Nope. In fact, she prefers masculine males.

Deciding where to put your limited stat points is Min-Maxing. Stat Training is just Maxing.
The game is designed to be beatable with just the default Stat Points, so increasing your stats beyond that does have an impact.
In addition to the stated effects for each Stat, there are a number of attacks that target Physique, Reflexes or Willpower, so raising those can help you avoid being Stunned/Tripped/Blinded/whatever else. I can't think of one that targets Aim.
 

arch99

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Dec 24, 2019
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Ramis strikes me as deliberately playing against type: Tall, heavily muscled, heavy drinker? Must be a butch lesbian! Nope. In fact, she prefers masculine males.

Deciding where to put your limited stat points is Min-Maxing. Stat Training is just Maxing.
The game is designed to be beatable with just the default Stat Points, so increasing your stats beyond that does have an impact.
In addition to the stated effects for each Stat, there are a number of attacks that target Physique, Reflexes or Willpower, so raising those can help you avoid being Stunned/Tripped/Blinded/whatever else. I can't think of one that targets Aim.
The problem being that "just kidding! the girl is actually only interested in men" isn't actually like, breaking expectations, because society and people in general assume heterosexuality as default.
 

Atryx10

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Jan 7, 2017
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I'd like to add to this that I got the uttermost annoying situation possible thanks to the game being percentage based on certain checks. I was going to Tavros at level 10, to hire Ramis so that I could grind stats with her (My stats at the time were 4/25/30/35/52), but turns out that if you go to the bar after you've basically beaten the game, you're forced to interact with Nastizia, who then railroads you into save editing the game to have all stats maxed because otherwise you're basically guaranteed to fail the quest. All I wanted was to recruit Ramis, get my stats to max, then start exploring side-quest -_-
 

SmithEK

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Apr 20, 2021
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I'd like to add to this that I got the uttermost annoying situation possible thanks to the game being percentage based on certain checks. I was going to Tavros at level 10, to hire Ramis so that I could grind stats with her (My stats at the time were 4/25/30/35/52), but turns out that if you go to the bar after you've basically beaten the game, you're forced to interact with Nastizia, who then railroads you into save editing the game to have all stats maxed because otherwise you're basically guaranteed to fail the quest. All I wanted was to recruit Ramis, get my stats to max, then start exploring side-quest -_-
You can just reject the pussy princes.. a
 

Syth Dracous

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Apr 14, 2022
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For those that don't mind interacting with and dealing with her "lab" encounters (which used to be cheeseable with the EMP 'nades Anno sells,) Dr. Badger allows for infinite stat training to any of them just use the Dollmaker's temporary effects. After I think 4 to 7 in game days they wear off and leave the stat higher that it started.