Something I want to have a Conversation about

[Primename]

So, we all kinda know how most/some people respond to most content that is not for them or they don't like. "Take this out of the game." "Let me murder this NPC, they suck." "How could you do this to me?!" ect-ect-ect.

And one of the more common responses to that sort-of tirade of comments is this.

"You don't have to play it." and it's many variations.

Now, this is an entirely valid thing to say to someone and definitely works in this kind of situation. But something has been bothering me about that phrase.

Now, I think we all know how much work goes into those scenes and NPC submissions. Days upon weeks upon months of work no doubt about it.

But when one of those creators say "If you don't like it, then don't play it." It kinda...bums me out?

When it comes to certain types of games I really like (Like TiTS and other games like it) I can become sort of a completionist. I want to meet everyone, see just about all outcomes before I choose which one I go with, try a few of the items to see how I like them.

So, whenever I see the phrase mentioned above, it really bums me out ( forgive me if I phrase this in a harsh manner ) I'm being told not to play the game or its contents. I enjoy TiTS as a whole (who doesn't?) and I am always looking forward to where it's going.

Now, I'll be honest, there is some content in this game I am not a fan of (one police officer that comes to mind) but I still try to see if I can enjoy the product of TiTS overall, and I do.

So, I guess where this rambling thread is going is that, as creators of these sort-of mixed or poorly received content, how does that make you feel when you or Fen have to tell someone not to play it. Do you think that mindset affects the game's overall quality as it is now or do you think it doesn't matter?

Not really calling anyone out, I just want to see some thoughts from creators and fan alike.

 

[Dark67titan]

its more of a suggestion than a command

 

[Primename]

its more of a suggestion than a command

Fair point, but it's not really where I'm wanting to take the conversation. It's not really the act of telling someone not to play your content, but how it affects the creator behind the content to have to make that suggestion with their content.

 

[Dark67titan]

Fair point, but it's not really where I'm wanting to take the conversation. It's not really the act of telling someone not to play your content, but how it affects the creator behind the content to have to make that suggestion with their content.

o right sorry i miss took what you were asking as "how pissed off are when somesone tells not to play blah blah blah)

 

[ShySquare]

Tbh, I was already kinda used to the philosophy of Don't Like? Don't Read before playing TiTS, because I've been reading fanfiction for a long time (and more recently, comics). Thing is, fandoms really require every individual fan to focus on what interests them and essentially ignore the rest (even elements of the canon).
So "don't like, don't play" was more of the same for me.

Plus TiTS is a game that feature a LOT of fetishes and kinks, which means its playerbase in turn has varied sets of kinks and fetishes, which makes making every piece of content appealing to everyone in that playerbase impossible.

And imho, just because some people won't play your content, doesn't mean writing it wasn't worthwhile. I mean, take Omega Oil. It's a tf for a very niche kink, so obviously only few players are gonna use it, and others will even be actively turned off and grossed out by it. Doesn't mean writing it wasn't worth it for the players who do enjoy it.


Though things might be different for the people who wrote really "controversial"* content that the players wanted to remove from the game/murder with fire.

*controversial as in, some people threw a screaming fit in the forums and were met with passionate defenders of said content

 

[SoAndSo]

It's quite mixed for me.

Aside from Jesse and Maike, I don't think I've ever not had some negative 'feedback' upon release of something. I've never had something that was straight up poorly received (pretty much every thread I've got has heaps of praise, likes and even odes post-release) and most negative feedback stems from the 'lack' of illusion of choice I tend to use when I have my idea finalised in words or specific fetishes that are a little 'too much'. Akane is a good example of having had both: electro-stim BDSM for a goofy ninja clan that turns invisible in the blink of an eye just upsets people it seems.

My general response is a shrug.

I'm a musician first and foremost so doing what feels absolutely the best on the inside and outside has always won over a potential listeners 'quibbles'. I've got my fans and I've got the tools I need to make it sound good. So you don't like punchy math rock with jazz chords and shit? It's whatever dude.

Writing for TiTS has felt nearly the same but the people with negative 'feedback' tend to really amp up their inner distress at it all. They'll go out of their way to hammer in how they felt absolutely violated to the very soul that something I did ended up making them angry in some way but, again, I can only shrug. I've never wanted my stuff to appeal to everybody but apparently the mindset of the loudest, angriest bits of the community is that all content must appeal to them always perfectly with no mistakes. Actual criticism on my end has been mostly mechanical and related to the 'lack of illusion of choice' I mentioned, things which I've readily taken on as fixes or compromises to some of my more JRPG inspired writing choices. When put together, one is simply me fixing an admitted mistake and the other is the blithering of entitled weirdos.

That said, I passively encourage anyone to try anything in the game unless it's just such low overall quality that nobody can enjoy it (cough, pig, cough, bartender demon, cough). If they play it and don't like it, then ok. I they don't play it then ok. If they play it and do like it then nice.

 

[Kesil]

I rarely if ever read GDocs when contents are being under work, so I mostly jump into new characters and events with the faintest idea of what they are about. I enjoy learning about new contents, and I try not to judge them without reading what the game offers first as they may catch my eye even if their kinky contents aren't what I'm into (Brandy and Lane were two of these instances for me).

The problem comes when certain contents gate rewards such as weapons. Then I'm torn between enduring stuff I dislike or save editing to spare me the hassle. Yet both options are not ideal for me. Nor is "don't like it? Don't play it".

 

[Slab Bulkhead]

So, I guess where this rambling thread is going is that, as creators of these sort-of mixed or poorly received content, how does that make you feel when you or Fen have to tell someone not to play it.

I don't have to tell anyone anything. I'm always glad to hear someone liked my work. But if someone doesn't like it, and decides to tell me, I just ignore them. I know I can't please everyone and I don't even try to, I just write what I want to write. If someone doesn't like it, oh well.

 

[null_blank]

As a player it doesn't bother me.

With that said, as a long time AD&D player, I hate being railroaded. But there is a huge difference in the relationship between my DM whom I have known for almost 20 years and some stranger on the internets.

How can I hate being railroaded but totally be okay with Shizuya's encounter?

Intent. I don't know QuestyRobo from Adam and can only assume that the initial encounter was a mere story hook AND NOT MEANT TO EMASCULATE, HUMILIATE OR TRAUMATIZE the PC, because there is no evidence of that beforehand. If it were my DM you can bet we'd have some words at the table. That's because I know him. I know when MY DM is trying to fuck us over. There is nothing in Shizuya's gdoc or thread that even hints that there was ill-intent behind the encounter. It happens. Story hooks are not all equal. It may have been not the best story hook but there was no ill-intent behind it and thus I give it a pass. Also: don't come on the fucking forums to yell and scream and REEEEEEEEE at the content creator like you know them and get flustered when people call you out.

However, there are things that I simply don't like: The content creator assuming (not the character) that everyone's Steele is a rich, spoiled kid. There are multiple childhoods that players can choose from at the start, not all Steeles grew up with a silver spoon in their mouths. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to check up on my 8,000+ kids in my private nursery that has it's own floor on a space station. What? You don't have?

 

[Wsan]

I don't think I've received too much overt negative attention but if someone doesn't like what I wrote for someone else for money then I literally could not give a fuck less. I think this current companion I'm writing might be divisive but that's sometimes the price you pay in order to appeal to a certain audience. Otherwise you're restricted to weaker actions.

 

[Karretch]

As a consumer the one issue I have is not being one of those people that follow literally every WiP document and character and having beforehand knowledge of said character then being thrown into a situation where I am most definitely not comfortable because everything up to that point was not hinting or leading to this. Most recent example, Tessa, I played it nicely with her and didn't push it when asking about job so I didn't learn about her more aggressive side (had to look up in source about her "alley" scene), then flirt and without any indication thrown into a situation that was not my cup of tea.

 

[Alabaster Chimes]

As a consumer the one issue I have is not being one of those people that follow literally every WiP document....

*Looks at Master Doc*

Well arent you just FUCKING LUCKY

https://giphy.com/gifs/laughter-9a1...um=landing&utm_campaign=Media Links&utm_term=

(Just Kidding)

 

[Savin]

But when one of those creators say "If you don't like it, then don't play it." It kinda...bums me out?

It shouldn't. We can't make content to please everyone; trying to do so is madness, and will end up with a muddied product that doesn't really appeal to anybody. So we don't try. It's totally okay, and indeed very much intended, that not everybody is going to be into or even okay with every piece of content.

For example: If you don't like huge bara dudes running a buttfuck train on you, don't read content that revolves around that. It's that simple. That content isn't there for you: it's for the people that do like it. Similarly, those folk might not like the huge tiddy milky bimbo stuff Fen's super into; it's also not made for them. Just enjoy the content that appeals to you and ignore what doesn't.

You don't go onto PornHub and just watch every video for the simple fact it exists, do you? Same concept here.

 

[Nonesuch]

I think you'd have a fairer argument about 'don't play it if you don't like it' not being in the spirit of a game if TiTS was a more focused game. Most porn games concentrate on a single kink, or a small collection of related kinks, and in that case it's harder to shrug off criticism about contentious content because your audience are all here for a specific thing.

But TiTS prides itself on running a huge gamut of fetishes and erotica. It's a generously sized sandbox where in theory anybody could craft or commission the thing they want to see. It's both the game's big strength and weakness. So yeah, in order for the game to function as intended we almost *have* to tell players to avoid the stuff they won't like.

Imo one of the most important things to do when creating content for TiTS is to properly gatekeep it - crafting the encounter so that ideally only the players who are into the content get to see it. It's one of the things I think bad or newer writers are the worst at, because they tend to work on the assumption that the audience is like themselves, or simply don't do it particularly skillfully.

 

[Evil]

From a player's perspective, and with no insult meant to the writers, I like that there's content that I can ignore.

I'm not someone who likes forced sub-content, so the fact that I don't have to do the Uveto collar material, or Akane or the Zephyr loss content is something of a boon and really, no skin off my nose.

A game like TiTS can't please all of the people all of the time. You just can't, its impossible. What you can do is write content that appeals to a lot of people, who will enjoy it (hopefully). The fact that there are people who will complain about that content proves that you can't please them all. Going back to Zephyr, I quite like her, but at the same time, I'm not going to let her dominate me, so until I know that I can beat her in arm wrestling, I can wait to pound her ass. Because that's the content that appeals to me.

A writer saying "don't like it? Don't play it." isn't meant to be condescending, its a reminder that they aren't catering specifically to you. But its also a reminder that not everything that gets added to the game is going to appeal to you.

And hey, if there's content that anyone really wants to see, there are plenty of writers on here who take commissions.

 

[Mirmulnir]

most of the people that get told dont play something are just there to bitch about it anyway and wont be satisfied no matter what an author does, so it does no good to get upset by the crybabies