Some shower thoughts on Electrum

[Elekikiss]

Hello, I'm new, just to get that out of the way... and if the rest of the post doesn't make this painfully obvious, I'm fairly interested in economy. Specifically fictional economies. Because of that, I've had some Shower thoughts on electrum in this game, all from slightly different angles.

First, does alchemy consume Electrum? Like, is Electrum used for alchemy just gone from the world? It seems like the world would be in very short supply of what is already a limited and valuable resource to me...

Spoiler: Speaking of consuming Electrum...

That actually brings up another point: what happens to metals kobolds eat? Do they uhh... poop out metals or something? While I have no problems with a creature that eats metals, I have to wonder about how that's being metabolized, and what's going on with conservation of matter and everything. If they don't poop out metal... then that's another place where electrum goes to just "disappear" from the world, isn't it?

Which brings me to another thought, is there some kind of renewable source of Electrum (or Gold and Silver)? Say for example, some kind of magic that can "extract" alchemic properties from a material and convert that magic into electrum... or just simple "turn stone into precious metal" type spells in the world?

Next, while I understand it from a game mechanics perspective why just about every enemy would have and drop electrum... Would wolves actually drop electrum, if, say, we were actually in Savarra? If so, wherefore would the mangly beasts have coinage? Where did they even get it from? While if I were to say, write a fanfic or something, I'd brush wolves off as killing the wolves and selling the pelts, but even so... (Wolf meat is not appetizing enough to sell, although a hardy enough character might eat it anyways...)
Actually, this line of thinking extends to a lot of enemies, who simply should not have any need for coins. Combatable Kitsune, for example, in general, as far as I've read into the lore in game, should have no use for electrum, hence has no reason to be carrying them around. Same logic applies to Wyverns. I can see the Manticore girl taking coins off of people they beat to submission just because Manticores seem to like hoarding treasure, but...

Finally, and this is the thing that actually inspired me to write up this post:
So, Harpies in general are not welcome into towns. This is something I feel is relevant.
I understand that this is because they act as highwaymen (highwaywomen? ... bandits. I'll just use the broader term. Bandits.) in the Foothills.
While there's the double standard of three of the Marked Merk Mercs Boomer, Janeen, and Lusamine, who, are practically bandits, but are still being allowed into town, that's not something I'm actually concerned about.
What I am concerned about though is...
If they're not welcome into towns, why do Harpies need Electrum coins? Like, with the Forest Kitsune, who also turned to banditry, they take food and/or life force, since that's something they need and can actually use... and that makes sense. But Harpies don't exactly have... usage for electrum, since they're not going to be buying anything with them. So it seems odd that they are going around demanding coin... or do they need it?
Hmm... maybe Ovilixirs require electrum to make, just like potions we can make? That's about the only thing I can think of... Are there any other explanations available?

I understand that none of these might have any answers, but I just wanted to ask what people think (or answers, if the Writers have any).

---

Addendum:

Spoiler: Questions that only the writers can answer:

If the Baroness wasn't helping out with the funding, how much would Cait's Temple of Mallach actually cost you? What if Garth and his builders wasn't doing it for cost, how much would that add?
Actually, that makes me curious: how much of the nursery donations is you, and how much is the rest of the town? For simplicity's sake, let's assume the player maxed out the Nursery for this question.

 

[TheShepard256]

If they're not welcome into towns, why do Harpies need Electrum coins?

This point specifically is actually explained by Shar on the topic of how the harpies get the glass bottles Ovilixirs come in (since they don't have glass manufacturing capabilities); they trade with people who are allowed to enter and leave the settlements at will. I don't recall if she mentions money specifically, but that's certainly the implication.

 

[Alypia]

First, does alchemy consume Electrum? Like, is Electrum used for alchemy just gone from the world? It seems like the world would be in very short supply of what is already a limited and valuable resource to me...

Which brings me to another thought, is there some kind of renewable source of Electrum (or Gold and Silver)? Say for example, some kind of magic that can "extract" alchemic properties from a material and convert that magic into electrum... or just simple "turn stone into precious metal" type spells in the world?

In a practical sense, nobody is going to worry about Peak Electrum. First of all, there's a lot of electrum in the world, especially since the Belharans were able to refine and work it on a level that the Greeks and Romans could not (because the Greeks and Romans could not really refine electrum at all, an important factor in modern numismatic archaeology: we can track sources of gold and silver for classical Mediterranean coins through their alloy composition) and could even just straight up make it out of gold + silver. Even more than electrum, there's a lot of gold and silver in the world. Individual sources of ore were undoubtedly exhausted from mining-out during the Belharan imperium, but they're probably nowhere close to getting all of it...not least because the society that mined and coined the overwhelming majority of it was destroyed in an apocalypse from which its successor states still have not recovered. No industrial-level mining is happening in Old Belhar's corpse.

Furthermore, Old Belhar coined a shitload of electrum, the overwhelming majority of which was not consumed alchemically or eaten by kobolds. Like in the Black Death - and like it says in the Currency codex entry - men died, but coins did not. There are probably millions upon millions of hawks squirreled away in Godswar-era hoards all over what's left of the old empire, and periodically they get found and introduce additional liquidity into the currency market.

Next, while I understand it from a game mechanics perspective why just about every enemy would have and drop electrum... Would wolves actually drop electrum, if, say, we were actually in Savarra? If so, wherefore would the mangly beasts have coinage? Where did they even get it from? While if I were to say, write a fanfic or something, I'd brush wolves off as killing the wolves and selling the pelts, but even so... (Wolf meat is not appetizing enough to sell, although a hardy enough character might eat it anyways...)
Actually, this line of thinking extends to a lot of enemies, who simply should not have any need for coins. Combatable Kitsune, for example, in general, as far as I've read into the lore in game, should have no use for electrum, hence has no reason to be carrying them around. Same logic applies to Wyverns. I can see the Manticore girl taking coins off of people they beat to submission just because Manticores seem to like hoarding treasure, but...

[...]

What I am concerned about though is...
If they're not welcome into towns, why do Harpies need Electrum coins? Like, with the Forest Kitsune, who also turned to banditry, they take food and/or life force, since that's something they need and can actually use... and that makes sense. But Harpies don't exactly have... usage for electrum, since they're not going to be buying anything with them. So it seems odd that they are going around demanding coin... or do they need it?
Hmm... maybe Ovilixirs require electrum to make, just like potions we can make? That's about the only thing I can think of... Are there any other explanations available?

I understand that none of these might have any answers, but I just wanted to ask what people think (or answers, if the Writers have any).

It's an abstraction of the saleable items that they do carry or that can be extracted from them, because vendor trash is dumb.

 

[Wint3rRyd3r]

Eat money like an absolute chad. The only way to achieve wealth is not to eat the rich. The only way to achieve wealth is to eat the rich's money. But why stop there? Consume all of the money. Cut the middle man and his potions out and just put the electrum into your mouth. Raid your local frontier treasure to satisfy this newly acquired and expensive palate. It most likely grows on trees anyway. Why else is there an infinite amount?

 

[MeloPuss]

i tried to look up historical sources for how electrum might work and where they go.....but then i realized two things.

one, historically electrum doesn't seem to be used to alchemy, which, in hindsight, should have been obvious considering the one of ultimate goals of alchemy was to turn stuff into gold. it would be rather silly of them to use an alloy that already contains gold.

two, alchemy is mostly bollocks and there's no such thing as a reliable source for something that's basically ancient people's headcanon for chemistry. so the entire idea of researching alchemy is also rather silly.

there's no way you can explain any system of alchemy and have it make any amount of scientific sense.

on the topic of wolves, wyverns and harpies, animals like shiny things, especially birds, as can be attested by any cyclist who's been pecked to death by magpies due to their shiny helmets.

and also the shiny helmets of the gigantic penis growing out of their foreheads. the lack of a bike lane doesn't mean you get to use the motorway or the pedestrian walkway, it means the city council HATES YOU AS MUCH AS EVERYBODY ELSE STOP SIGNS AND TRAFFIC LIGHTS MEAN THINGS YOU'RE NOT SPECIAL.

so it would make sense that people who are about 50% bird would like to collect electrum even if they have no use for them. and that's another thing, electrum has value outside of being currency. it's used in alchemy and enchanting, the latter of which can provide an edge for a gang of roaming bandits, so it would make perfect sense for harpies to collect them even if they can't trade.......if the game had shown anyone but vivian enchant anything ever. the devs kinda just forgot they wrote enchanting into the world. my dreams of creating my own enchanted weapon called the deathboner remains vehemently dashed.

 

[Stupid_Goo]

the lack of a bike lane doesn't mean you get to use the motorway or the pedestrian walkway, it means the city council HATES YOU AS MUCH AS EVERYBODY ELSE STOP SIGNS AND TRAFFIC LIGHTS MEAN THINGS YOU'RE NOT SPECIAL.

I'm protesting this because, until my country learns that stop signs and red lights are to be obeyes 100% of the time and people don't wanna go 65mph on a road that clearly states 25mph limit on top of all the phone & makeup & etc distractions, I'll stick to biking on the sidewalk where I see almost nobody acrually walking around here anyways - and even then I can just go down a driveway to go around them and then back onto the sidewalk; I've been hit too many times as it is not to avoid the roads.

TL;DR - things after this: things like to make no sense in games because fantasy headcanon.

From what I see in the game, the only alchemy we deal with is making foodstuffs that normally wouldn't turn you into their namesake into something that'll specifically change a part of you, using... mostly more foodstuffs - who eats branches, roots and sticks?
"Alchemy is bollocks," you say? Hasn't anyone ever said that alchemy was chemistry before it became an actual topic of study?
As for enchanting... you kind of have your own little set of spells to do that, albeit temporarily, in battle - I doubt there'll ever be a mechanic for actual enchanting via "take weapon, find expensive item, turn a Balanced Blade into one that now does sum'n like more Accuracy or causes Disarm on hit for some reason." Those kinds of systems never really made sense to me - I mean, really? A dagger that could stun people? Maces and hammers that cause bleeding?
And yes, many a crow will yoink that sparkly ring or pendant you left sitting where they could see it because it makes their nest look pretty.

 

[WolframL]

if the game had shown anyone but vivian enchant anything ever. the devs kinda just forgot they wrote enchanting into the world

Enchanting requires study and very specific components; it's less that the devs forgot about it and more that nobody else we regularly come into contact with has the skills to perform it and the only times we're able to use her services are when the writing requires it. Which by the way just recently happened with Arona's totally not a Ghostbusters reference quest, with Viviane enchanting up some magic gear once we procure the necessary physical remain of the powerful soul.

From what I see in the game, the only alchemy we deal with is making foodstuffs that normally wouldn't turn you into their namesake into something that'll specifically change a part of you, using... mostly more foodstuffs - who eats branches, roots and sticks?

For our purposes this is mostly the case but other uses of it are mentioned in the game, the Champion just doesn't make use of them. Alchemy is also the most common explanation for (non-elf) intersex characters.

"Alchemy is bollocks," you say? Hasn't anyone ever said that alchemy was chemistry before it became an actual topic of study?

Pretty much. The stuff in alchemy that worked became the basis for chemistry, the rest got jettisoned until it resurfaced in speculative fiction because even if transmuation or the philosopher's stone aren't real, they make excellent material for stories.

 

[MeloPuss]

"Alchemy is bollocks," you say? Hasn't anyone ever said that alchemy was chemistry before it became an actual topic of study?

do internet people have selective blindness towards the word "mostly"?
also i literally called it ancient people's headcanon for chemistry.

 

[Stupid_Goo]

do internet people have selective blindness towards the word "mostly?
also i literally called it ancient people's headcanon for chemistry.

S'nice to see your attitude is as lovely as ever.

Back to the main topic of this thread, though...

 

[Wint3rRyd3r]

Alchemy is science fan fiction. Alchemy is the "My Immortal" of chemistry.

 

[Wenyang Hao]

I won't worry about the nursery, as my MC donated like literally a million Electrum in a small town where beer cost 10 EC and a decent weapon cost like 100 or so. With this money, the good puppy built a 2 level house with a library, a schoolroom, and a music house, while the temple is able to be finished with 5000 EC. Even if there are hundreds of kids who need to be fed every day, I still suspect Gwyn saved most of the money.

For the temple, I feel that there might be more things added to it as there are many empty rooms. We might be able to upgrade it with expensive furniture or experienced staff in the future, might take another million EC in the process.

Judging from how the economy is running now, these costs can be covered by inflation introduced after the underground city update. The only exploration result of this map is encounter and Imps yield 2000 EC per battle at the speed of Americans printing dollars.

 

[Karamaru]

To be fair, I don't mind getting money instead of vendor trash since I can actually use money into funding the Wayford or nursery (even though I don't use it) unless some enemies drop super rare items.

The stuff in alchemy that worked became the basis for chemistry, the rest got jettisoned until it resurfaced in speculative fiction because even if transmuation or the philosopher's stone aren't real, they make excellent material for stories.

exactly all the benefits of the mystery of magic and some science sprinkled in and makes for good foundations in fantasy with no need for explaining every little detail.

 

[Elekikiss]

It's an abstraction of the saleable items that they do carry or that can be extracted from them, because vendor trash is dumb.

Hrmm... I agree with vendor trash is dumb, and that makes sense...

But also, it still doesn't make sense wolves are giving us anything valuable, since we don't actually kill any of the wolves, just fend them off... which means no pelts :<

 

[Stupid_Goo]

But also, it still doesn't make sense wolves are giving us anything valuable, since we don't actually kill any of the wolves, just fend them off... which means no pelts :<

Animals like shiny things.

And if we killed everything that attacked us, animal or humanoid, we'd both eventually run out of wolves to fight and we'd be labeled monsters or murderers - because plenty of those random encounters have sentience and intelligence; sending things off with a beating is better than raising death flags all around you because you wanted better stuff off of them.