As a mechanic, her whole thing works well enough as a metaphor for having your kid grow up. First off, you can just not go through with it, but you'd holding your wife and child in stasis for your own gratification. Then after being there for her elementary years, you are forced to bail out from her high school years, but come back for her college years. (To Kiyoko, Hime's pre-med and Inari's in the arts.) I think we're missing a "sending off to college", whether it ends well or not.
Some confusion about Kiyoko/Kinu content
- Thread starter TankHunter678
- Start date
What are you talking about. Garret and Kinu are both written by the exact same person. I've not paid much mind to this silly topic but I really can't ignore this, do you really know what you're talking about.
I know exactly what I said. Kinu's writing is very well done but despite Kinu's whole thing of trying to get out of her father's shadow, it never shown that way whatsoever really, hence why I said the writing is inconsistent. You are very well allowed to disagree with me and that's fine, we're adults. As for my last part, I know Kinu is written by one person. I asked why there isn't more than one person working on her? Sure I get some writers don't want others touching their characters but you got a handful of people working on a massive project. Why not pick a few dedicated volunteers you like to help you with your content such as Kinu while you focus on bigger, more important content within the project?
Because Tobs is the one who controls her story. Akin to how Savin controls Cait's quest or Bubs controlling Quins. (Yes I know they're companions and aren't the same thing but SHH)
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What gets me is this mythical number of volunteer writers, to be honest. We've got at most half a dozen consistent ones, by my count and excluding tobs (since he's the one you explicitly want working on other things).
It's also strange how you assume we can just... Tell them to do things. They're volunteers, submitting content that they wrote because either they wanted to write it or were paid to write it.
And lastly, you're really trivializing the work that goes into writing a character like Kinu over the course of what, five years now. Adding the complication of three or four more people each trying to build onto her even as Tobs takes her story and personalities in specific directions while all maintaining even half of her current consistency would be overwhelming when the man already has other shit on his plate
It's also strange how you assume we can just... Tell them to do things. They're volunteers, submitting content that they wrote because either they wanted to write it or were paid to write it.
And lastly, you're really trivializing the work that goes into writing a character like Kinu over the course of what, five years now. Adding the complication of three or four more people each trying to build onto her even as Tobs takes her story and personalities in specific directions while all maintaining even half of her current consistency would be overwhelming when the man already has other shit on his plate
Plus, most of the volunteer writers write for their own characters. How many of them mostly write for other writers' characters? Pretty short list.
And the whole thing is in service of "fixing" a problem that is mostly mythical (Kinu's allegedly inconsistent characterization) and that it wouldn't ameliorate even if it were a problem.
It is consistent but we can't tell the writers on how to write their characters or how to run their operation, the thing we can do is discuss the content that's in front of us.
Wow 5 years damn that's some dedication mad respect Tobs I raise my glass to you Tobs for making me care for my fictional floof fox daughter and giving me the inspiration to write a fanfic.
I think there's a sense that a new writer has to commit to this DEEP LORE that is being developed by the team, which you can't contradict it EVER. Which is a mistake in my opinion because
you couldn't even BECOME a kitsune if they committed to a certain rule for game overs in the design doc. Demons can't take my soul, I like my soul.
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TheShepard256
Well-Known Member
I think they're referring to the
"You can't become a demon" rule, as kitsune are technically demons due to their lack of individual souls.
There's a workaround for that particular "mistake", and it's spelled out pretty explicitly in the game.
All's you gotta do if you want to write new content for the game is check what you write with the writing team, especially with the primary writer on any bit of content and any character writers whose characters you include in it. So long as you don't try to wreck existing lore, you've got plenty of space to play.
The real problem is that writing is hard, and that limits the number of people who even try to submit content. Then there are the people who struggle to meet quality standards. In my experience, the dev team is very accommodating of new writers - the new writers just have to do the work.
But, again, this is a side issue. The fact of the matter is that Kinu is the way she is, and no amount of volunteer writer rewriting is going to change that.
So the engagement talk on inari's end is fine and kinda sweet.
The problem I have however is Kiyoko's variant of the talk, which is actually what infuriated me more.
She literally tells you straight up.. BLUNTLY at that, that you have no power in the family, no say in what happens in YOUR FAMILY whatsoever, that you have no fucking agency and it's all because of your role as a parent. Because ''culture''. This isn't a problem because of culture, it's the former that's a problem.
Honestly that makes me physically ill, the Champ and by extension the players when it comes to the out of orb content for their family has been nothing but a punching bag for the writer and now alongside being forced into being an absentee father against our will, we're officially a fucking useless deadweight absentee father at worst, while a frickin trophy sperm bank for Kiyoko to prance around with at best.
You're nothing but fucking obsolete to your family now, that same family you bothered to free... it's gotten to the point l don't even consider the champ a true part it at this point. Much less part of it at all, you just exist. You've exceeded your usefulness.
I didn't sign up for family content to be reduced to a fucking deadweight father. This is the first real family content in Fengames after a long time and this is what we're reduced to. If Kiyoko runs the house and we have no say there, not any feeling of being equal, the fuck Is our purpose there? It doesn't help that if you so much as speak about this the writer will only laugh at you and consider your (rather reasonable) feelings ad nothing but salt and/or be extremely dismissive about said concerns. But I guess people are okay with being a deadweight because they get a preggophile foxwife out of it and that's all the demographic that matters!
I'm gonna hope no more actual family content is written for Fengames after this experience if this is how the pc is gonna be treated in it. I don't wanna be a fucking punching bag, nor did I sign up for family content to feel completely unequal within it. Yes, I'm frustrated, and upset, dare I say even fucking vindictive, this whole experience has been extremely unpleasant and I'm so exhausted of feeling like this when I just wanted more engaging family stuff...
I'm never EVER touching floof family shit and anything related to it in this game again after this in any new saves I make. I do not care how 'well written' it is, for it has turned into my absolute least favorite batch of content due to how it now feels so condensending to player's wishes in the new talk scene and is almost like some form of torture porn towards the champ/player's because the writer gets off to that. It's honestly the worst way of handling family content to date imo. I only endured it for inari kinu, but now I can't fucking stand being shit on by the writer through his own fucking characters. I used to love the floof fam when it was just in the orb. Now I wish I never even got stuck in this abusive relationship with said content and never touched the orb at all. My attachment to it all is dead and staying dead for my sake.
The problem I have however is Kiyoko's variant of the talk, which is actually what infuriated me more.
She literally tells you straight up.. BLUNTLY at that, that you have no power in the family, no say in what happens in YOUR FAMILY whatsoever, that you have no fucking agency and it's all because of your role as a parent. Because ''culture''. This isn't a problem because of culture, it's the former that's a problem.
Honestly that makes me physically ill, the Champ and by extension the players when it comes to the out of orb content for their family has been nothing but a punching bag for the writer and now alongside being forced into being an absentee father against our will, we're officially a fucking useless deadweight absentee father at worst, while a frickin trophy sperm bank for Kiyoko to prance around with at best.
You're nothing but fucking obsolete to your family now, that same family you bothered to free... it's gotten to the point l don't even consider the champ a true part it at this point. Much less part of it at all, you just exist. You've exceeded your usefulness.
I didn't sign up for family content to be reduced to a fucking deadweight father. This is the first real family content in Fengames after a long time and this is what we're reduced to. If Kiyoko runs the house and we have no say there, not any feeling of being equal, the fuck Is our purpose there? It doesn't help that if you so much as speak about this the writer will only laugh at you and consider your (rather reasonable) feelings ad nothing but salt and/or be extremely dismissive about said concerns. But I guess people are okay with being a deadweight because they get a preggophile foxwife out of it and that's all the demographic that matters!
I'm gonna hope no more actual family content is written for Fengames after this experience if this is how the pc is gonna be treated in it. I don't wanna be a fucking punching bag, nor did I sign up for family content to feel completely unequal within it. Yes, I'm frustrated, and upset, dare I say even fucking vindictive, this whole experience has been extremely unpleasant and I'm so exhausted of feeling like this when I just wanted more engaging family stuff...
I'm never EVER touching floof family shit and anything related to it in this game again after this in any new saves I make. I do not care how 'well written' it is, for it has turned into my absolute least favorite batch of content due to how it now feels so condensending to player's wishes in the new talk scene and is almost like some form of torture porn towards the champ/player's because the writer gets off to that. It's honestly the worst way of handling family content to date imo. I only endured it for inari kinu, but now I can't fucking stand being shit on by the writer through his own fucking characters. I used to love the floof fam when it was just in the orb. Now I wish I never even got stuck in this abusive relationship with said content and never touched the orb at all. My attachment to it all is dead and staying dead for my sake.
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When Keros told me to grow a dick and have a kid with Kiyoko I told him to shove one up his ass politely refused.
We are talking about the douchebag god here. The one who created a race of soul sucking fox people who are unable to have friendly relations with other races due to being perceived as monsters because of their nature. I'm not trusting him with a glass of water, let alone my legacy.
But the real reason you get no choice in anything is because of the sheer scope of Kiyoko/Kinu content and the amount of content that would need to be written if Kinu were to marry anyone else. That's hundreds upon hundreds of pages, of which any one player will experience only a quarter in a single playthrough.
We are talking about the douchebag god here. The one who created a race of soul sucking fox people who are unable to have friendly relations with other races due to being perceived as monsters because of their nature. I'm not trusting him with a glass of water, let alone my legacy.
But the real reason you get no choice in anything is because of the sheer scope of Kiyoko/Kinu content and the amount of content that would need to be written if Kinu were to marry anyone else. That's hundreds upon hundreds of pages, of which any one player will experience only a quarter in a single playthrough.
Yeah I can totally understand this view point. Initially when there was no post-orb content and everything was just the Astral Plane - the content seemed "simplistic" in a way - or maybe even "idealistic" if I'm not overstepping my bounds here. I feel like the disparity between how the Champ interacts with Kiyoko and Kinu from the Astral Plane setting to the "IRL" (in the game sense) setting is night and day.
If we're thinking of it from the Champs perspective it actually is kinda sad - they literally go from seeing their Foxwife and kits on a semi-daily basis (depending on how often you keep the amulet equipped) - to losing 10 years in a blink of an eye. Not just that but the whole dynamic with their family life is kinda like "now you're obsolete - this is your fault btw".
I dunno, I guess I feel like there was a lack of forewarning about how exactly this was all gonna pan out. I tend to sort of not want to interact as much with Kinu and Co. as much as I used to due to sort of feeling bad or guilty in some way.
Almost as if the best case scenario would be to keep them in the orb... even if that is cruel moralistically. I dunno - I guess this is Tobs' overall goal in a sense. The content is very well written from the aspect that they seem like real characters, with their own lives and personalities... the only issue I find is my Champ is literally a bystander in most cases.
Anyways, don't mean to go on a tangent here - apologies for that, guess it does invoke an emotional reaction.
TLDR - Tobs' content is good, but also makes me sad - you win.
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Well, if you think that's bad don't read Hime's comment on her engagement she basically tells you that she admits having no respect for you and Nakano bad-mouthing you behind your back, and that felt colder than Hethia's vag, Kiyoko's comment isn't much different from her Inari talk with some minor differences at least in my opinion with Inari you and Kiyoko can both be miserable at the situation.
same as above love the content but it makes me sad.
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Yeah I saw Hime's comment about you through someone else's save.
I understand not wanting to tell us about the engagement for obvious reasons, inari is worried about us disapproving like Kiyoko did and leaves it at that, but the fact that Hime LITERALLY ADMITTED TO THINKING LESS OF YOU is so damn shitty. That's your fucking father you're literally shit talking Hime, holy shit as if I needed more of a reason to dislike Hime Kinu. That's fucking unnessecarily cold and further cements that the pc is a fucking punching bag...
Just... What in the absolute flying fuck did the champ do to deserve that? Hate the guy who wanted and STILL wants him dead? Just because that guy happens to be her fiance? Hime, you didn't have to reduce the Champ's morale about being stuck in the dark about his own fucking family like that, jfc. Even inari did better in not doing that.
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To be honest, my stance on it is - whilst Kinu is the oldest, and likes to think of herself as the most mature - she very clearly has flaws. Inari is isolated due to her views, whilst Hime is a people pleaser but retains not so much vibrant personality. That and I think Hime would be more inclined to insult you behind closed doors and not to your face - unlike Inari. Hence why the engagement scene is kinda different in that regard.
Regardless though, I think Hime technically would make the most sense without your Champ's influence over those 10 years. I'd think Inari represents the stubbornness from the Champ's side, which I doubt would have survived 10 years of Kiyoko.
So, regardless of how Hime treats the Champ, I think it's her lack of maturity as well as one sided parenting that'd have brought her to that point (as well as some underlying resentment). Whereas Inari retained the teachings from the Champ and ended up resenting her mother instead.
Overall though, regardless of the interactions between Kinu and her parents - or the opinions of her spouse about the Champ, none of that can sort of detract from the Champ. When you finally save the world - if the Kitsune's as a whole still dislike you (they do resent you currently due to the state of things), as well as Kinu and Co. then there was nothing that could be done to change their opinion of the Champ to begin with.
Could only hope that maturity would sort that out. Same with Inari - would hope that maturity would make it so that her relationship with Kiyoko is not so strained.
In fucking deed, the champion is literally stuck between a rock and a hard place with the choices here, you can either be a complete scumbag by keeping Kiyoko and Co in the Orb or letting them go free and your kids cutting you out for their lives because they found other foxes to interact with and their father is just a native so who cares about him, the only people in the family as far as I can tell who loves you without question (can't comment on the other named kids like Aya and Asagiri since you don't interact with them in any fashion yet hopefully we can in the future) is Kiyoko and Inari Kinu to some extent in my experience.
Well played Tobs well played.
Seems to me that Hime Kinu wants to cut you out completely, maybe because she feels ashamed that her father is a native? I could be wrong about Hime I have been before, so if anybody can correct me on that please do.
And she can be the perfect Kitsune princess for the colonies with no shameful baggage like your father being a non kitsune native or kitsune not from the old country.
She basically disrespects you b not telling you and assuming you would make a temper-tantrum because her fiance hates natives (delicious irony I guess, Keros is probably laughing his ass off at the situation) and Kiyoko in being made complicit in her deception and disrespecting Keros by turning his deal with the champion into a joke.
Iove the situational drama and misunderstandings and other funny moments serrounding two different cultures coming together but I also hope they can settle their differences and grow as closer as a family for the better I hope things turn for the better when Kinu quest continutes.
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I recently encountered the "Engagement" tab dialogues, the problem with them is it comes off as somewhat condescending.
Not talking about an in-character sense, but an undercurrent of the writer's feelings towards the player.
There's always been something a little off about the kitsune segment of the game, as if it almost wants to be its own major thing instead of just a minor part of the story/game that is currently going on.
Part of this is simply that so much of it comes from a single author who is dedicated to creating content but its something I can understand why people have been troubled over.
Not talking about an in-character sense, but an undercurrent of the writer's feelings towards the player.
There's always been something a little off about the kitsune segment of the game, as if it almost wants to be its own major thing instead of just a minor part of the story/game that is currently going on.
Part of this is simply that so much of it comes from a single author who is dedicated to creating content but its something I can understand why people have been troubled over.
you took all the words out of my mouth, I hope that in the future, all this suffering of the champ in relation to your family, will result in something good.
It's not real, just my head canon of my Champion's reaction to the request.
They didn't even offer to lend the magicock for a night to get it done and immediately jumped to alchemical alteration. No, thanks. A god should be more than capable of finding someone else to breed Kiyoko. But somehow I doubt that since the tool tip says that refusing will Permanently remove Kiyoko from the game.
As for not telling you directly... ah, I suppose there is no hiding it. Both you and Nakano have some degree of animosity, for reasons that I should not have to expound upon. I had not hoped to wish to have this confrontation, even if it was inevitable, and hence kept on delaying the matter of informing you... this is, of course, a failing that is entirely on my part. Did she really think so little of you to imagine that you would get in her way if it came down to it? Uncomfortable silence. "Yes."
Everything else is the same as Inari with in reasoning differences but the tone was set with that
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To be fair... she isn't wrong. I can't speak to the Champion themselves but most players seem to vehemently hate Nakano and doesn't approve of the engagement at all. There's been several objections to Hime Kinu's choice of mate in The Observation Post and this very thread too. xD
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Can't argue with that but as for Nakano I dont hate the man I just wish he would chill out but it's nice to see Kinu has a positive effect on him and him actually trying to be nice, hopefully he will change his tune later on
I don't hate Nakano, I just hope he realizes the irony that he was de facto opposing Kiyoko & Kinu + siblings from returning to the world, and that the Champion (if delivering the amulet) was actually trying to do a service to the Kitsune. Still, I'm sure he secretly burns a little hotter knowing that his love is the child of someone who handed him his ass. (I don't count people that lost to Nakano, reee)
As for Hime Kinu engagement talk, that was a bit of a punch. No doubt intended. I can fully understand TObs not wanting to write a bunch of variations in the Champ's reaction however, it would be a lot of work for not much pay off from TOb's perspective.
As for Hime Kinu engagement talk, that was a bit of a punch. No doubt intended. I can fully understand TObs not wanting to write a bunch of variations in the Champ's reaction however, it would be a lot of work for not much pay off from TOb's perspective.
Nah Nakano says you are equally matched to which I rolled my eyes and thought "Yea dream on buddy" xD
I don't have any real problem with Nakano, he's desperately prideful so it would be fun to rub it in as his father-in-law.
Before the poor direction the writing has seemingly taken recently I always liked little Kinu having taken him as her boyfriend and tried to make him a less foolish person. They're cute.
We already beat the stuffing out of him and every other capable fighter in their treehouse in a row on the way in the first time so any pissbaby nationalism or racism on his part comes across as laughable attempts to shore up a fragile ego when I could just put him in a headlock and noogie the boy.
Before the poor direction the writing has seemingly taken recently I always liked little Kinu having taken him as her boyfriend and tried to make him a less foolish person. They're cute.
We already beat the stuffing out of him and every other capable fighter in their treehouse in a row on the way in the first time so any pissbaby nationalism or racism on his part comes across as laughable attempts to shore up a fragile ego when I could just put him in a headlock and noogie the boy.
I'm not saying you're wrong, (especially once you've gained a few levels from the IIRC, five that you'd be at if you took on the Floofhaus when it was new) but he has grounds (albeit perchance a bit shaky) to assert that he's at least equally matched with the Champ, after all the one time you've faced him in battle it wasn't single combat but three on one.
Which unless TObs lets us spar with the good Provost Mano a Mano he can hold until he dies. xD
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Now why did you go on and ruin my power fantasy
Also rematch yes please even though at this point the champ will rofl stomp him.