Some confusion about Kiyoko/Kinu content

[Starstruck]

Equivalent exchange. The price of freeing Champ's floof family is ten years of their time together.

Precisely, it's certainly in his MO, the floofs have always been big on that particular practice too and we know where they got it from.

Superficially there was nothing "equivalent" about that exchange, yes you brought the Amulet of Transference back to them, but in return they gave you the Fox-Tail Charm and permission to come and go as you please.

Then he extracts the floofs and restores the Ruined Shrine to serviceable condition, complete with a back door into the Kurokawa Den's gate network even... but he doesn't take anything in exchange.

That doesn't seem like Keros at all now does it..? Unless he's already taken his tax.

 

[Vais]

Wow, was kinda expecting someone to be like "your PC a shity ass person" XD

As you can probably guess, my Kitsune pc is extremely salty about the entire situation, especially since, like alot have already said on this forum, the pc had no control whatsoever on the situation and that, combined with that fact, Kinu showed little care about what her father did for her and her family, that despite those ten years without him, he still clearly cared deeply for them when he was not only able to free them from their own prison, giving them a future, but also when he sacrificed his humanity so to say to become one of them, to spend his life with them, to better understand them and their way of life better as well as even marrying their mother in which he had no zero incentive to do so. Her father could have easily just let them live out the rest of her/their existence within the Astral Plane and kept on living his current life, keeping them as "pets" of sorts. That being said, despite everything he had done for them, he wasn't expecting them to be totally indebt to him beyond reasoning, like worship him or anything like that. He wasn't even expecting the same thing from before when they were in the Astral Plane but he was at least expecting Kinu to throw him a nice bone, some leveway for his efforts rather than what's been served to serve. It also bothered him Kiyoko never lost hope that he would free her but Kinu did.

Me personally, while I do share some views with my Kitsune PC, I would never abandon Kinu, she's a kind, gentle soul doesn't deserve that. Of course, I wouldn't put up with her facade of hers. Unlike about 99% of the characters in the game, I would be blunt but still tell her I would be there for her and tell I do love her. I would attempt to get to know the "modern" Kinu Hime but.....I probably give up after awhile If I couldn't get anywhere with her lol


With all that out of the way, on a side note, I'm not even sure if adult Kinu even loves the PC. Would she even care if the PC made the ultimate sacrifice? Or would she just resent him still for what happened in the Astral Plane and the most likely fact that she, along with her siblings would undoubtly be forced to live in his shadow? The whole time skip itself makes no sense on how it was implemented. You can go visit Kiyoko every day in game yet SOMEHOW, one day after your last visit, it goes from like a few months in the Astral plane to ten years >_>

 

[Emerald]

And I thought if I got out of the damn discord I could stop being depressed about this fricking topic, nope, I'm just sad again now. Thanks bro. ://

 

[Karamaru]

With all that out of the way, on a side note, I'm not even sure if adult Kinu even loves the PC. Would she even care if the PC made the ultimate sacrifice? Or would she just resent him still for what happened in the Astral Plane and the most likely fact that she, along with her siblings would undoubtly be forced to live in his shadow? The whole time skip itself makes no sense on how it was implemented. You can go visit Kiyoko every day in game yet SOMEHOW, one day after your last visit, it goes from like a few months in the Astral plane to ten years >_>

She would probably be very sad and even more traumitized to lose her father again after ten years only to see him go again permenantly this time not to mention Kiyoko's feelings who loves you no matter what, Kinu really does care or else she would not bother to spend time with you, she is an adult now and kids have very different relations with their parents as adults atleast in my experience, also as a Hime she treats you with the utmost respect you are due as her father and Champion of Hawkethorne/Keros wether you are Human or Kitsune, I am more curious how the other named floofs react to their father suddenly coming back

Precisely, it's certainly in his MO, the floofs have always been big on that particular practice too and we know where they got it from.

Superficially there was nothing "equivalent" about that exchange, yes you brought the Amulet of Transference back to them, but in return they gave you the Fox-Tail Charm and permission to come and go as you please.

Then he extracts the floofs and restores the Ruined Shrine to serviceable condition, complete with a back door into the Kurokawa Den's gate network even... but he doesn't take anything in exchange.

That doesn't seem like Keros at all now does it..? Unless he's already taken his tax.

Well he probably wants to make a good impression to get the Champion to sell them their soul maybe thats a reason?, he also seems to want to offer another deal during your fox wedding as well but the Champion declines the offer to which he responds he will offer the same thing to Kinu when she gets married.

 

[Skandranon]

Precisely, it's certainly in his MO, the floofs have always been big on that particular practice too and we know where they got it from.

Superficially there was nothing "equivalent" about that exchange, yes you brought the Amulet of Transference back to them, but in return they gave you the Fox-Tail Charm and permission to come and go as you please.

Then he extracts the floofs and restores the Ruined Shrine to serviceable condition, complete with a back door into the Kurokawa Den's gate network even... but he doesn't take anything in exchange.

That doesn't seem like Keros at all now does it..? Unless he's already taken his tax.

Eh, Keros is the the one who asks you to free them in the first place. He even gets pretty pissy if you refuse.
Strictly speaking, you're providing your essence for basically nothing.

 

[Vais]

And I thought if I got out of the damn discord I could stop being depressed about this fricking topic, nope, I'm just sad again now. Thanks bro. ://

Apologizes, I had to vent my frustration about this topic. I've had it in for like a year now lol

She would probably be very sad and even more traumitized to lose her father again after ten years only to see him go again permenantly this time not to mention Kiyoko's feelings who loves you no matter what, Kinu really does care or else she would not bother to spend time with you, she is an adult now and kids have very different relations with their parents as adults atleast in my experience, also as a Hime she treats you with the utmost respect you are due as her father and Champion of Hawkethrone/Keros wether you are Human or Kitsune, I am more curious how the other named floofs react to their father suddenly coming back



Well he probably wants to make a good impression to get the Champion to sell them their soul maybe thats a reason?, he also seems to want to offer another deal during your fox wedding as well but the Champion declines the offer to which he responds he will offer the same thing to Kinu when she gets married.

I'm not sure about that honestly. part of me agrees with you but than at the other side of the spectrum, I feel as If she's only doing that since Kitsune culture & etiquette has been rammed into her head for ten years straight/been indoctrinated by Kiyoko to the point I'm not sure if she's even capable of not acting the way she was raised unless something was to push her off the edge to make her incredibly unstable. While I do agree with you over Kiyoko, whom surprisingly monogamous towards you considering COC's many elements, she does not get off the hook either, not until she explains why she decided to marry off my eldest daughter without even asking me for my opinion mere days after her escape from her prison lol

 

[TVGuru]

I'm the opposite of annoyed, the idea her father should choose her husband is antiquated and creepy.

I mean, that's basically what Kiyoko did. Arranged marriages is part of their culture apparently.

 

[Starstruck]

I mean, that's basically what Kiyoko did. Arranged marriages is part of their culture apparently.

The thing is though Hime would probably be drawn to Nakano with or without Kiyoko's intervention... actually in fact, was the union even prearranged? I don't remember reading anything of the sort.

Hitoshi on the other hand, while I do think she is genuinely attracted to him and he's certainly hubby material, Inari Kinu also probably at least initially is courting him in particular to rebel against her mother.

 

[TVGuru]

actually in fact, was the union even prearranged? I don't remember reading anything of the sort.

In the engagement talk with Kinu, she says that Kiyoko had arranged their marriage. Nakano didn't propose to her until after that had happened. While Hime Kinu didn't mind, which is part of her behavior anyway, she wasn't the one to decide to marry him that instant.

 

[Karamaru]

Hitoshi on the other hand, while I do think she is genuinely attracted to him and he's certainly hubby material, Inari Kinu also probably at least initially is courting him in particular to rebel against her mother.

Hitoshi is a really swell guy even tough Kinu would marry him just to spite her mother.
But she made a good choice from what I have read he's probably slightly more reliable than Nakano and probably would not give the Champion a hard time, but then again Nakano tries to be nice to the Champion as well with Hime so its an improvement even its a small one.

In the engagement talk with Kinu, she says that Kiyoko had arranged their marriage. Nakano didn't propose to her until after that had happened. While Hime Kinu didn't mind, which is part of her behavior anyway, she wasn't the one to decide to marry him that instant.

Hmm makes me wonder if Komari would have agreed if Kiyoko had not arranged it, from all the interactions I have read she seems very against their marriage.

 

[Starstruck]

Hmm makes me wonder if Komari would have agreed if Kiyoko had not arranged it, from all the interactions I have read she seems very against their marriage.

I think Komari just wants Nakano to recognize and come to terms with the fact that he is not, and never will be, a member of the Old Country's upper echelon. He's the descendant of a disgraced Den Mother/Priestess, and he was born in a colony which means as far as the nobility is concerned he's a country bumpkin on top of all that.

As far as she's concerned a wedlock union with Kinu would only instill the boy with false hope, because at the end of the day wedding Kinu won't bring him the glory and status that usually comes with marrying royalty.

 

[Malpha]

I'm pretty sure she's against it because he's just as likely to get himself killed more than anything else, and she'd hate to have her son make her recently returned lord's heir a widow.

 

[SomeNobody]

So, what is being said in this thread is..?

 

[Starstruck]

I'm pretty sure she's against it because he's just as likely to get himself killed more than anything else, and she'd hate to have her son make her recently returned lord's heir a widow.

This too yes, but I still think she also doesn't want to keep watching her boy struggling to achieve an end she knows is unachievable.

 

[Vais]

The bigger question is why? since Kiyoko, while still holding onto a very prestigious title(Den Mother), she is no longer a noble but on the same level as a bastard after she decided to remove herself from her clan's tree of inherence as to prevent political issues for her clan back in the old country, thus there's no reason for a political/arranged marriage unless Kiyoko just wants control over whom her daughters marries. If anything, the Champion would have control since realistically, as Kiyoko is on the same level as a bastard and the Champion has been given basically the most prestigious tittle possible within Kitsune society that's essentially makes him a minor noble in his own right, a new bloodline, a new cadet branch, noble house revolving around the Champion's bloodline would be formed with the Champion holding all the power.

Of course, this seems to be glossed over or ignored entirely just to shit on the Champion from what I can see. What is the point of using medieval politics in your story when you only use it to suit your purposes. This is pretty much my only real grip with the Kitsune content besides adult Kinu herself.

 

[Vais]

If that's the case than why would Kiyoko make important family decisions without any sort of input from the Champion? She very well loves the Champion, she even holds him in the highest light to the point the only ones higher than him would be Keros himself. Perhaps her children as well but the Champion can persuade her to come with him on his journey, abandoning her duties as a Den Mother so that's debatable. By default, Kiyoko also knows how important their children are to the Champion so it seems like a misstep to me. The only conclusions I've come to regarding why she would go beyond her husband's back is either she's putting on a facade like Kinu does, which I highly doubt considering how she's written, she doesn't care about her husband's input at all when it comes to certain subjects such as this or she doesn't trust his judgement or might even think he's not intelligent enough since he's a outsider but at that point, who's fault is that? Keros screws you over intentionally for his own amusement and there's not much content that allows your Kitsune pc to educate and train himself in Kitsune culture, customs and etiquette. I think most people whom RP as a Kitsune pc would enjoy content such as that. You can argue the Champion far too busy to be around long enough to give his input but the game clearly isn't designed like that unless it's forced upon you for plot reasons even If it makes no sense.

There's also the fact that if you have the noble background, even If you are a third or forth born son of a noble family, that controls anything from a small barony to a massive duchy, it adds absolutely nothing to the story in any shape or form to the point It might as well not even be in the game at all. Realistically, marrying a noble into another noble house would grant boons, trading, martial alliances, contacts, prestige at the very minimum for at least one of the noble houses but here, there's no mention whatsoever of the Champion's origins or the effects it has on his family after he marries Kiyoko.

 

[Karamaru]

If that's the case than why would Kiyoko make important family decisions without any sort of input from the Champion? She very well loves the Champion, she even holds him in the highest light to the point the only ones higher than him would be Keros himself. Perhaps her children as well but the Champion can persuade her to come with him on his journey, abandoning her duties as a Den Mother so that's debatable. By default, Kiyoko also knows how important their children are to the Champion so it seems like a misstep to me. The only conclusions I've come to regarding why she would go beyond her husband's back is either she's putting on a facade like Kinu does, which I highly doubt considering how she's written, she doesn't care about her husband's input at all when it comes to certain subjects such as this or she doesn't trust his judgement or might even think he's not intelligent enough since he's a outsider but at that point, who's fault is that? Keros screws you over intentionally for his own amusement and there's not much content that allows your Kitsune pc to educate and train himself in Kitsune culture, customs and etiquette. I think most people whom RP as a Kitsune pc would enjoy content such as that. You can argue the Champion far too busy to be around long enough to give his input but the game clearly isn't designed like that unless it's forced upon you for plot reasons even If it makes no sense.

There's also the fact that if you have the noble background, even If you are a third or forth born son of a noble family, that controls anything from a small barony to a massive duchy, it adds absolutely nothing to the story in any shape or form to the point It might as well not even be in the game at all. Realistically, marrying a noble into another noble house would grant boons, trading, martial alliances, contacts, prestige at the very minimum for at least one of the noble houses but here, there's no mention whatsoever of the Champion's origins or the effects it has on his family after he marries Kiyoko.

Yea, I am going to agree with Malidica on this only the writer themselves can answer those in-depth questions regarding lore, though I would guess I would chalk this up to sheer work size of writing necessary and game limitations to accommodate to all the variables of the champion's origin, for example, being a Lunpine barbarian or Wyld elf hunter would have vastly different priorities on how to raise their kids.
And the champion's origin is more for flavor text and starting stats, but the difference in flavor text on how the champion thinks and talks is a pleasant addition.

As for your other question regarding the champion's noble family, I doubt an ancient noble line would really care about their child marrying a forgotten and abdicated princess from a land they barely know exists especally one who left his home; I think most nobles care more for rebuilding their shattered society and infrastructure, and the Old Country probably does not care about Kiyoko unless she forces herself back into the Old Country's high society, and she gave her birthright to her sister and both she and Kinu as are the rest of the floof family are pretty much of nobility in name only and wields no real power in her homeland so she can't really give anything and neither can Komari.

Also does the Kinu Quest only trigger when you accept Keros's bargin?, because the event needed to trigger it does not show up until I accept his deal.

 

[LonelyHydra]

If that's the case than why would Kiyoko make important family decisions without any sort of input from the Champion? She very well loves the Champion, she even holds him in the highest light to the point the only ones higher than him would be Keros himself. Perhaps her children as well but the Champion can persuade her to come with him on his journey, abandoning her duties as a Den Mother so that's debatable. By default, Kiyoko also knows how important their children are to the Champion so it seems like a misstep to me. The only conclusions I've come to regarding why she would go beyond her husband's back is either she's putting on a facade like Kinu does, which I highly doubt considering how she's written, she doesn't care about her husband's input at all when it comes to certain subjects such as this or she doesn't trust his judgement or might even think he's not intelligent enough since he's a outsider but at that point, who's fault is that? Keros screws you over intentionally for his own amusement and there's not much content that allows your Kitsune pc to educate and train himself in Kitsune culture, customs and etiquette. I think most people whom RP as a Kitsune pc would enjoy content such as that. You can argue the Champion far too busy to be around long enough to give his input but the game clearly isn't designed like that unless it's forced upon you for plot reasons even If it makes no sense.

There's also the fact that if you have the noble background, even If you are a third or forth born son of a noble family, that controls anything from a small barony to a massive duchy, it adds absolutely nothing to the story in any shape or form to the point It might as well not even be in the game at all. Realistically, marrying a noble into another noble house would grant boons, trading, martial alliances, contacts, prestige at the very minimum for at least one of the noble houses but here, there's no mention whatsoever of the Champion's origins or the effects it has on his family after he marries Kiyoko.

IMO the fact that she is willing to be a companion for the Champ explains why she is so decisive with Kinu: she is raising her to be the heir to her title, with differing results depending on your parenting. Hime seems to take her inheritance much more seriously than Inari does.

This is also why I believe the best direction to take writing Inari Kinu, despite the ton of (real and in-fiction) issues it raises, is to effectively replace Kiyoko as a companion. Having your rebellious kid satisfy her desire for independence by answering the call to adventure solves a lot: she clashes way too much kitsune society as it is, and can take out her frustrations on her enemies for once. Especially if the Champ explicitly forbids any actual sex with him around.

 

[Alypia]

despite the ton of (real and in-fiction) issues it raises

These are sufficiently large as to immediately remove any Kinu Companion content from consideration.

 

[Emerald]

Also does the Kinu Quest only trigger when you accept Keros's bargin?, because the event needed to trigger it does not show up until I accept his deal.

Nope. I'd call it random chance, a specific Kinu vintage needs to pop up for it, you don't need to be bound.

 

[Vais]

It would certainly be interesting If you could have Kinu rather than Kiyoko as a companion as that could bring significant character development for either Kinu's as well as give the Champion the time they no doubt need to bond with their daughter.

 

[LonelyHydra]

These are sufficiently large as to immediately remove any Kinu Companion content from consideration.

Oh I know. I think's it's doable: limit it by being temporary, copy and replace Kiyoko code. But it's obvious why the project would be low priority if it even reaches the list.

Girl just needs to go on a retreat.

 

[GEESE]

It would certainly be interesting If you could have Kinu rather than Kiyoko as a companion as that could bring significant character development for either Kinu's as well as give the Champion the time they no doubt need to bond with their daughter.

I think I asked for this before and they said no because Kinu is too OP. also cuz she's supposed to be getting OUT of your shadow, or something.

 

[Vais]

I think I asked for this before and they said no because Kinu is too OP. also cuz she's supposed to be getting OUT of your shadow, or something.

How's that even possible when the Champion hasn't reached anywhere near their potential and their constantly fighting and improving through countless dangerous situations where as Kinu doesn't even leave the den. I realize Kinu essentially has Goten tier potential here but she still have to put significant effort to ever be on the same tier as her father. Even with her potential, I don't think she could ever match her father's skill unless she did something similar but I doubt that considering she takes her duties as heiress too seriously. I swear if they just make her OP just cause reasons, I'm gonna seriously hate that character >_>

Besides lets get real, If COC II is ever finished, by the time the game ends, your most likely going to be viewed as a legendary hero who saved the world and If you serve Keros, you most likely be viewed as one of the greatest Kitsune's that has ever lived. No matter what Kinu does, she never escaping her father's shadow.

 

[GEESE]

She doesnt have to be stronger than her father to be op, she just has to be stronger than the rest of the companions :V

 

[Karamaru]

I think I asked for this before and they said no because Kinu is too OP. also cuz she's supposed to be getting OUT of your shadow, or something.

Which is kinda funny because I don't get that feeling at all that's she living in your shadow or I am just too blind to see it?, because she seems to be content doing her own things and the Champion is never mentioned in the Kinu events, so people are comparing her to her sire when you're not looking or something because I don't see it and she neither mentions this in your interactions with either Inari or Hime.
The only person who kinda mentions this is Komari of all people.

 

[Vais]

Which is kinda funny because I don't get that feeling at all that's she living in your shadow or I am just too blind to see it?, because she seems to be content doing her own things and the Champion is never mentioned in the Kinu events, so people are comparing her to her sire when you're not looking or something because I don't see it and she neither mentions this in your interactions with either Inari or Hime. The only person who kinda mentions this is Komari of all people.

This is the portion of the Kitsune content, that to me, is consistent in it's writing. Kinu Hime's content from what I've read is always her doing her job in the den, helping her siblings or solving disputes between den inhabitants peacefully. I've yet to see any content where she's by herself, either doing a hobby, enjoying some private time or even in deep thought that aren't related to one of the three subjects up above.

 

[Emerald]

Which is kinda funny because I don't get that feeling at all that's she living in your shadow or I am just too blind to see it?, because she seems to be content doing her own things and the Champion is never mentioned in the Kinu events, so people are comparing her to her sire when you're not looking or something because I don't see it and she neither mentions this in your interactions with either Inari or Hime.
The only person who kinda mentions this is Komari of all people.

Yea it's weird. If she's living in our shadow I'd expect more implications of it.
Garret for instance is the perfect example of living under his father's shadow, he has a whole talk about it even, to the point it actually affects him, to the point that we see that it does and see that yes, he doesn't want to live like that. But with Kinu, the Champ is not mentioned anywhere in her scenes. She (At least with Inari in my experience, idk about Hime but probably similar here) IS allowed to be her own person in the den when she's not around her parents, do her own thing, make her own choices, the champ is never mentioned in her vignettes at all, in fact Kiyoko is mentioned more (Due to the fact that unlike us she's allowed to be present there), not much in terms of talking to most others in the den yourself implies it, she doesn't bring this up to you in either of her adult outcomes either for us to even tell that this is a thing going on, and she unlike Garret is NEVER compared to the champ or reduced to "The commoner's/champion of Kero's daughter" or anything to suggest she's struggling to live on her own without anything hanging over her of the such.

So it just leaves me asking.... literally what shadow is she stuck under? Because as it is, it feels more as if she's trying to distance herself from her father without that even needing to be there, leading to just cruelly once again making the PC the punching bag even moreso regarding his relationship with Kinu on either outcome of her adulthood, we get that she doesn't wanna be babied anymore but that's not the same as "living under someone's shadow" and she's gonna get stronger and kill Raphael later anyways. There is literally no shadow she's stuck under, because the writing does not from all I've seen so far, outside that Komari thing you mentioned, write her under one, not even in a "oh this happened off-screen" thing. >.>

With Garret, while we are told that he is under his father's shadow, we actually SEE that it affects him personally, that he doesn't like it and wants to not live that life. With Kinu on the other hand, we're ONLY TOLD that she is stuck in your shadow by Word of God only and that she needs to get out of it, but this is never SHOWN to us in a way that is actually readable to see that yes, it is a thing that is happening. And I think that's another reason as to why this bothers me so much about this being the point of KinuQuest, it's so weird. If that is a legit thing and plot point it should at least be shown to us somewhere, implication or otherwise. As it stands, the implication of what the writer is trying to go for not shown ANYWHERE in the actual writing itself, and yes, that is a problem.

 

[Karamaru]

This is the portion of the Kitsune content, that to me, is consistent in it's writing. Kinu Hime's content from what I've read is always her doing her job in the den, helping her siblings or solving disputes between den inhabitants peacefully. I've yet to see any content where she's by herself, either doing a hobby, enjoying some private time or even in deep thought that aren't related to one of the three subjects up above.

It is consistent, but not very accurate to what the writer intends to tell his story about a daughter living in her hero father's shadow since she doesn't seem to care what you are trying to do or what you are all about and doubly so for Hime, which strikes me as very ignorant but it lines up with Kinu being very intelligent but very ignorant and closed minded of the world at large.

Yea it's weird. If she's living in our shadow I'd expect more implications of it.
Garret for instance is the perfect example of living under his father's shadow, he has a whole talk about it even, to the point it actually affects him, to the point that we see that it does and see that yes, he doesn't want to live like that. But with Kinu, the Champ is not mentioned anywhere in her scenes. She (At least with Inari in my experience, idk about Hime but probably similar here) IS allowed to be her own person in the den when she's not around her parents, do her own thing, make her own choices, the champ is never mentioned in her vignettes at all, in fact Kiyoko is mentioned more (Due to the fact that unlike us she's allowed to be present there), not much in terms of talking to most others in the den yourself implies it, she doesn't bring this up to you in either of her adult outcomes either for us to even tell that this is a thing going on, and she unlike Garret is NEVER compared to the champ or reduced to "The commoner's/champion of Kero's daughter" or anything to suggest she's struggling to live on her own without anything hanging over her of the such.

So it just leaves me asking.... literally what shadow is she stuck under? Because as it is, it feels more as if she's trying to distance herself from her father without that even needing to be there, leading to just crudely once again making the PC the punching bag even moreso regarding his relationship with Kinu on either outcome of her adulthood, we get that she doesn't wanna be babied anymore but that's not the same as "living under someone's shadow" and she's gonna get stronger and kill Raphael later anyways. There is literally no shadow she's stuck under, because the writing does not from all I've seen so far, outside that Komari thing you mentioned, write her under one, not even in a "oh this happened off-screen" thing. >.>

With Garret, while we are told that he is under his father's shadow, we actually SEE that it affects him personally, that he doesn't like it and wants to not live that life. With Kinu on the other hand, we're ONLY TOLD that she is stuck in your shadow by Word of God only and that she needs to get out of it, but this is never SHOWN to us in a way that is actually readable to see that yes, it is a thing that is happening. And I think that's another reason as to why this bothers me so much about this being the point of KinuQuest, it's so weird. If that is a legit thing and plot point it should at least be shown to us somewhere, implication or otherwise.

Yes, 100 percent exactly this you worded this better than I ever could.

 

[Vais]

Yea it's weird. If she's living in our shadow I'd expect more implications of it.
Garret for instance is the perfect example of living under his father's shadow, he has a whole talk about it even, to the point it actually affects him, to the point that we see that it does and see that yes, he doesn't want to live like that. But with Kinu, the Champ is not mentioned anywhere in her scenes. She (At least with Inari in my experience, idk about Hime but probably similar here) IS allowed to be her own person in the den when she's not around her parents, do her own thing, make her own choices, the champ is never mentioned in her vignettes at all, in fact Kiyoko is mentioned more (Due to the fact that unlike us she's allowed to be present there), not much in terms of talking to most others in the den yourself implies it, she doesn't bring this up to you in either of her adult outcomes either for us to even tell that this is a thing going on, and she unlike Garret is NEVER compared to the champ or reduced to "The commoner's/champion of Kero's daughter" or anything to suggest she's struggling to live on her own without anything hanging over her of the such.

So it just leaves me asking.... literally what shadow is she stuck under? Because as it is, it feels more as if she's trying to distance herself from her father without that even needing to be there, leading to just cruelly once again making the PC the punching bag even moreso regarding his relationship with Kinu on either outcome of her adulthood, we get that she doesn't wanna be babied anymore but that's not the same as "living under someone's shadow" and she's gonna get stronger and kill Raphael later anyways. There is literally no shadow she's stuck under, because the writing does not from all I've seen so far, outside that Komari thing you mentioned, write her under one, not even in a "oh this happened off-screen" thing. >.>

With Garret, while we are told that he is under his father's shadow, we actually SEE that it affects him personally, that he doesn't like it and wants to not live that life. With Kinu on the other hand, we're ONLY TOLD that she is stuck in your shadow by Word of God only and that she needs to get out of it, but this is never SHOWN to us in a way that is actually readable to see that yes, it is a thing that is happening. And I think that's another reason as to why this bothers me so much about this being the point of KinuQuest, it's so weird. If that is a legit thing and plot point it should at least be shown to us somewhere, implication or otherwise. As it stands, the implication of what the writer is trying to go for not shown ANYWHERE in the actual writing itself, and yes, that is a problem.

Couldn't have said it better than myself. That is what I meant at the writing being inconsistent, It just didn't come out that way. I really hope Kinu is reworked. Surprised there isn't dedicated writers just for specific content. There has to be enough volunteers by now.