Soliciting ranged/melee feedback.

[The Observer]

So, while there've been some comments of the latest patch, but not regarding the ranged/melee split that was implemented. Hence, I'm going to be asking some questions of the community at large, and hopefully you all will answer.

• Have you checked out any of the new powers?
  • If so, which do you use and not use? Why?
• Have you needed to change your weapon to fit your power loadout, or vice versa?
• Do you prefer a ranged or melee weapon? Why?
• Are throwing weapons worth it for the versatility in powers they afford?
• Do you think there is enough of a delineation between melee and ranged powers while providing enough overlap to be functional?

Thanks.

 

[lisle]

My last play was as a melee oriented character. I brought the bow around to switch to and shoot at harpies with while they were flying but I didn't use any of the ranged-specific skills (IIRC Rend worked with the bow) since my image for the character was a frontliner. I wouldn't split melee/ranged weapon skills on a character since having to switch weapons during every fight just to go through a skill rotation would be a nuisance, and there aren't enough skill slots to bring stuff you won't use.

 

[Balaknightfang]

I definitely think the power limitations are where you'll see the largest issues arise, and it's certainly where I've noticed it. This is largely because while the idea is that you swap your weapons in order to fight enemies that fly and the like, you run into the major issue of not having most of your real combat powers, which is where most of a character's damage comes from, in my personal experience. I think that individually, the two weapon types and their powers work (though I may go and do a ranged run in order to provide more specific feedback on ranged powers and how they feel compared to melee ones), but the current switching system is where the greatest weakness is. The best solution I've been able to come up with in my thought process would be to allow us to have "sets" much like our companions that allow us to swap between weapon+power groups quickly.

 

[Upcast Drake]

I definitely think the power limitations are where you'll see the largest issues arise, and it's certainly where I've noticed it. This is largely because while the idea is that you swap your weapons in order to fight enemies that fly and the like, you run into the major issue of not having most of your real combat powers, which is where most of a character's damage comes from, in my personal experience. I think that individually, the two weapon types and their powers work (though I may go and do a ranged run in order to provide more specific feedback on ranged powers and how they feel compared to melee ones), but the current switching system is where the greatest weakness is. The best solution I've been able to come up with in my thought process would be to allow us to have "sets" much like our companions that allow us to swap between weapon+power groups quickly.

That'd completely bypass the 5 power restriction.

 

[lisle]

That'd completely bypass the 5 power restriction.

If that's strictly a balance objection regarding the effect on the frequency of power use one could address it by having the slots retain any cooldown they're on when a new power switches into them.

 

[Stemwinder]

I definitely think the power limitations are where you'll see the largest issues arise, and it's certainly where I've noticed it. This is largely because while the idea is that you swap your weapons in order to fight enemies that fly and the like, you run into the major issue of not having most of your real combat powers, which is where most of a character's damage comes from, in my personal experience. I think that individually, the two weapon types and their powers work (though I may go and do a ranged run in order to provide more specific feedback on ranged powers and how they feel compared to melee ones), but the current switching system is where the greatest weakness is. The best solution I've been able to come up with in my thought process would be to allow us to have "sets" much like our companions that allow us to swap between weapon+power groups quickly.

Aye, that's just what I was thinking. If the powers are going to be split it would be quite handy to have two or three of these weapon + power sets that can be quickly accessed during battle.

 

[Ideo]

So I am 20 days late to this thread but only recently have I started playing with a dual-wielding thief pc (busy playing mage) and this thread seems to be lacking a little feedback. This is going to be a really long reply so please bear with me. First I am going to show the build I am running followed by an explanation on how to use it and why it is so good, then I will explain in detail why I am using certain weapons, avoiding others and finally make a brief review of some powers (in regards to their usefulness for this pc). Please note that I am using version 1.4 of the game.

DUAL WIELDING THIEF BUILD​

This build focuses on doing high amounts of damage to large numbers of enemies in only a few turns since most encounters in the current game have beetween 3-5 opponents. The quicker you can take out enemies the better since that will reduce the amount of attacks your party endures each turn.

Main stats: Agility, Cunning and Strength (this are the stats you level up).

Gear:

• Main weapon: Dagger
• Side weapon: Short Sword
• Armor: Leather Jerkin or Coat.

The rest of your gear does not matter just don't pick anything heavy or with aim or evasion penalties.

Main Powers (this are your strongest options):

1. Heal
2. Crowd Control
3. Cleave
4. Smoke Bomb or Suppresive Fire

Secondary Powers (this are your second options, they are good just not as good as the ones mentioned above)

• Dirty Trick
• Shadow Strike
• Rend
• Song of Storms (only if you have decent spell power, otherwise avoid)
• Mark for Death
• Shell Cracker
• Amazon Strike (good but be careful since it increases your threat level)
• Crackle Powder
• Thunder Strike
• Summon Kiyoko

Powers you should avoid (these are bad)

1. Fading Strike
2. Wyvern Sting
3. Stick and Move
4. Nerves of Steel
5. Ranger's Stance
6. Triple Threat

Now I am going to explain how this build works. The dagger is extremely important since is what enables this build, it allows us the ability to equip a second weapon in the offhand slot, grants us access to both range and melee powers and has the highest crit bonus available on any weapon +15.

Why is this important?

• When dual wielding you get to do a second hit with your off hand weapon every time you attack and when you use certain powers. This includes powers which make an attack against all enemies such as Cleave, Crowd Control and Suppresive Fire. In essence this means that upon using one of this powers you will do two separate attacks against each enemy. (Against full parties like Arona's, 5 opponents, you can do 10 separate attacks).
• Using the dagger enables the usage of all powers which do not require a catalyst, allowing all sorts of combinations.
• The thief class has a passive ability which grants a bonus to critical chance against enemies with negative status effects as well a party bonus to critical chance from sleeping (level 3), add to that a high cunning and you got a ridiculous high chance to score a critical hit.

So in short by using Smoke Bomb (inflicts blindness which reduces enemies evasion and increases your odds of landing a critical) + Cleave / Crowd Control you can do around 90 damage to each opponent and you are almost guaranteed to land at least one crit against one of them. Check out the images attached to this post for an example of how much damage this combo does.

After that you and your party should have no problem finishing the fight, especially if Brint decides to use Cleave.

I prefer to take both Cleave (ground enemies) and Crowd Control (flying enemies) and use them one after the other for a quick win. You can switch out one of them for any of the powers in the secondary list and still be very effective in combat, any power which does high damage to one target or applies a negative status effect is useful (like Dirty Trick, Shadow Strike, Mark of Death, Rend, etc). You can switch your encounter ability to summon Kiyoko as well since she can inflict a number of negative status effects throughout the fight. Also of the weapons you can wield alongside the dagger (the short sword or another dagger), I find the sword is best since it has higher damage and the dagger carries a penalty to accuracy.

Weapons and Powers you should not use and why:

Bows: there are decent weapons for a range focused pc but in my opinion they are overshadowed right now by the dagger-sword combo which enables both melee and range attacks.

Lance: this weapon is the only other which enables the use of both melee and range powers but it is crap compared to the dagger. It does only 2 points of extra damage, has no accuracy or armor penetration bonus and does not allow you to wield a second weapon in your offhand.

Any Weapon with accuracy or evasion penalties: this is mostly in regards to this build, in the end which weapons you pick depend on your character and playstyle.

Before I move on to the powers you should avoid I want to clarify something. As of the state of COC2 right now I think that your priority in combat should be either to take out as many enemies as quickly as possible or stun them long enough for your party to take them out, otherwise you and your party will get overwhelmed by barrage of attacks from a large number of foes. This is why I prefer high damaging powers or those with stun capabilities and avoid those with damage penalties.

At - Will powers: With the exception of Heal and the almighty Withering Bolt (AOE attack with no cooldowns? Seriously?) the rest of the powers you can place in this slot are bad (Guard is only useful for a tank warrior). This is why I suggested you take Heal as a backup for emergencies.

Fading Strike: These ability gives you a -50 attack penalty and the obscure status is not very useful since half the time you will still get attacked. You are better off just attacking normally than wasting a turn with this ability.
Wyvern Sting: As of the current state of COC2 attacks that deal resolve damage are pretty much useless and there other abilities that inflict higher damage quicker like Dirty Trick or Rend.
Stick and Move: Another -50 damage penalty. I suppose that in a pc with low agility and heavy armor this might have some uses but I still think you are better off just attacking normally.
Nerves of Steel: Pretty much all enemies encounters in the game with the exception of the mercenaries (which can stun you and still interrupt this attack) can cause resolve damage which makes this a very risky option, especially since you can only use it once, I personally think you got better alternatives for your encounter slot.
Ranger's Stance: This stance is in my opinion only useful for a character with low accuracy or if you are planning to use Triple Threat, otherwise I don't find the evasion and initiative penalty worth it.
Triple Threat: Again I would pass on this one it is very rare for all 3 attacks to connect, I suppose Ranger's Stance would help but I still think there better options.

Anyway thank you for reading these far, I hope someone finds these rant helpful. If you have any suggestions or feedback, want clarification on a certain topic or disagree with my opinion please let me know, I am not a native speaker and any help towards making these chunk of text more accurate and easier to understand is welcome.

Edit: I will add a save file of the build in case someone wants to try it out without having to make a new characters. This is pc is a herm, I am telling you now just in case.

 

[The Observer]

Good feedback, but I think I need to explain my thought process behind designing this:

Nerves of Steel: Pretty much all enemies encounters in the game with the exception of the mercenaries (which can stun you and still interrupt this attack) can cause resolve damage which makes this a very risky option, especially since you can only use it once, I personally think you got better alternatives for your encounter slot.

Nerves of steel was designed as a strategic option. You'd need either there to be no remaining resolve enemies to be on the field, or rely on something else to disable them before moving in. Using it alone runs the risk of it being ruined; it's meant to be comboed with another power or companion to get off safely. In the end, you need to know your enemy and have some options, and in return it will practically always hit and always crit, so +200% attack power is deceptively low. One of the impetuses of rthe creation of this power were complaints at how thunder strike kept on randomly missing.

 

[Stemwinder]

As it stands now "strategic options" are fairly useless in general, fights are all a damage race and so powers that allow you to do the most damage possible at once or to stun or to heal are going to make options that -don't- do those things a waste of a turn.

Battles would need to flow quite differently or have more to them for strategy to factor in. Currently the pace of battles is quick, most don't last more than 5 turns (it comes down to the sheer number of enemies taking out everyone at once or your damage abilities coming together to take them all out at once); they'd need to move more slowly or have more elements that factor into them for the battles to be at all strategic.

Resistances, turn order, positioning - stuff like that would need to be a factor. With this sort of bare bones combat you'll end up designing a bunch of skills no one's going to use just because the system itself doesn't reward them and really isn't designed to take advantage of them.