Ship Size

[Couch]

There will be at least one ship that is the best you can acquire through pure use of cash.  I predict that the best ship that you can get period will not be bought but rather found/earned.  That's just kind of how it works in this genre: cash is easy to acquire in large quantities after a while, so the measure of having earned something powerful is usually to be able to clear some sort of quest to unlock it rather than throwing a pile of money at it.  That's not to say the ultimate buyable ships won't be damn good ships, but if you can't settle for anything less than perfection you probably won't even find it at my shipyard, which is designed around offering ships that come with hefty price tags in exchange for well-rounded performance.

 

[Galgano]

Yeah, that's fine. I was just worried that there wouldn't be any good "best ships" that you could buy. I agree that the best ship should be found rather than purchased. And, yes, I understand that this game's currency is a bit unrealistic. MMO's probably have a hard time because they have to significantly balance the cost of items just like in the real world. If money and cost balancing were ever done in TiTS, it would be one of the last possible things to add into the game, and only if there is nothing else to do before completion. What are you thinking in terms of pricing for ships?

 

[Savin]

Remember two things:

• Credits are Monopoly money, they have absolutely no logic to how much things cost beyond "Better guns cost more than worse guns, and I want things that do XYZ to be more expensive than things that do ABC".  In specific, since a large part of the game is the transformation fetish and character customization, items that do a very specific thing are much more expensive than roulette-wheel items.  Similarly, ships will probably be more expensive than guns, but not even remotely as expensive as would be logical if credits were treated as a logical currency, because ultimately you need to be able to afford a ship by way of cash gotten through beating up squids or whatever and taking the prepaid debit cards they just happen to have on them.  This is not a realistic game.

So much this. 

That said -- and I'm just spitballing here -- but the best way to handle buyable ships would probably be the PC putting a down payment on their ship and then making installment payments so long as they own the vessel. Not only is that in keeping with the lore (Kaede and Saendra are fairly focused in their storylines about the cost of paying for and operating their vessels), but it would pretty strongly encourage the PC to use their ships to make money (like hauling cargo, doing salvage, piracy, etc.) to keep up payments and get cool upgrades. This would let players actually get access to really good ships at non-insane prices, at least. 

I'd also like the PC's ship to be a fairly intensive money-sink, especially at higher levels. As has been indicated several times before, the best gear is always gated behind quests -- if you're buying stuff, it's usually either remedial catch-up or else getting ahead of the curve for the next planet (like Emmy's gear). Since ships will be highly customization, potentially shifting them between entirely different roles depending on loadout, the PC will probably want to have a wide variety of ship upgrades in their arsenal. Not only that, but (in my current design docs, at least) repairing your ship's hull after a fight requires you to dock and purchase repairs, or else spend a VERY long time letting your poor wrench-wenches do it themselves. Between repair costs, constant upgrades/hardpoint swaps, fuel (maybe), and installment payments, running a ship's going to be an expensive proposition. 

I like the thematic-ness of that, but it also means that part of space content 1.0 is going to have to be repeatable quests like cargo hauling or random salvage generation to help PCs start raking in larger scores of credits. 

 

[Ormael]

So with possibly fuel costs even not getting anything better than start ship will somehow "encourage" us to do side quests for money to pay costs of travel? Or in this particular case fuel costs will be so low that normal grind on planets will be more than enough to cover this?

 

[Jacques00]

So with possibly fuel costs even not getting anything better than start ship will somehow "encourage" us to do side quests for money to pay costs of travel? Or in this particular case fuel costs will be so low that normal grind on planets will be more than enough to cover this?

I'm sure if there were to be an expansion of costs, there will also be an expansion to earnings as well. In addition to ship-centric jobs, there could be space battles, salvage hunts, and asteroid mining that have a relatively large payout and are possible sources of income once huge ship costs become a thing.

 

[Ormael]

I keep thinking like: for space encounters what when we find some ship attacked by pirates? I mean after they left it drifting in space. Still it would be possible scavange it or at least take the remaining fuel from it (assuming all TiTSverse ships we would use and enmies too run on same universal fuel) if there was any left by pirates anyway.

 

[Couch]

All ships run on savicite, though it's not clear if it's used as solid crystals or liquifacted.

That said, I would probably discourage making fuel a concern.  It makes for a money tax on just going from place to place, not to mention the possibility of getting stuck somewhere on accident because you ran just a little too short on gas to get back to a gas station and didn't realize until half an hour of content later.

 

[Nik_van_Rijn]

All ships run on savicite, though it's not clear if it's used as solid crystals or liquifacted.

That said, I would probably discourage making fuel a concern.  It makes for a money tax on just going from place to place, not to mention the possibility of getting stuck somewhere on accident because you ran just a little too short on gas to get back to a gas station and didn't realize until half an hour of content later.

We can possibly handwave the fuel by making it one of the few things our dear daddy helped us with, by ordering some fuel-related part of his huge corporation to give us a super discount.

 

[Galgano]

Would there at least be a cap on the payments for the ship? Like, if you pay 10,000 credits for something that costs...15,000, after payments equating to 5,000 (plus interest) credits, would Steele no longer have to make payments? And another thing, will Steele have to sell the previous ship if he/she wants to get a better one? I can imagine payment costs quickly getting out of hand if the player has to spend all their money just to pay off all the debt on his/her ships. Or is there going to be a miniquest thing where you're evading the repo people?

On another topic, since we'll have some quests for salvage and stuff, are we going to attach storyline to some of the quests? Like, you are going to go salvage something from X location, but while there, you meet...I don't know Kaede or someone like that. They're trying to do the same thing. Or maybe introduce a new character via the mission. Someone else is on the run from the Black Void, or you meet the Black Void at the scene because this particular salvage is of vital importance to them. Ooh, that would be such a great way to add content. Eh, but what do I know, I'm just a forum plebeian.

 

[MESeele]

stuff

The hanger was mentioned to be very large, so being able to own multiple ships at once is likely. Plus, playing ship collector will probably be a draw for many a player. For this reason alone I doubt payments on ships would continue forever; lest they stack you into oblivion. Still, like in life, It'd be wise not to throw down-payments on half a dozen ships without realistic means of keeping up with payments. I gather that fleeing from repoliens for the rest of your journey wouldn't be good for your future company's standing either.

edit: Short version: I figure the ship market will be like buying your house in animal crossing. Sure some may gouge you, but you'll pay it off eventually. Requiring fully paying off your previous debt before taking a new one also feels like a mechanically savvy decision.

 

[Ethereal Dragon]

About the fuel requirement, wouldn't the larger ships need something a bit more permanent, like say a fusion reactor? I can see smaller ships needing fuel but ships going up to a certain size shouldn't require constant refueling like smaller ships require.

 

[Galgano]

 I figure the ship market will be like buying your house in animal crossing. Sure some may gouge you, but you'll pay it off eventually. Requiring fully paying off your previous debt before taking a new one also feels like a mechanically savvy decision.

Savin, would there be a way to set how much you will spend initially that would determine how much the payments would be? Also, if you're capable of straight up buying the ship, you would not have to worry about payments.

 

[Couch]

About the fuel requirement, wouldn't the larger ships need something a bit more permanent, like say a fusion reactor? I can see smaller ships needing fuel but ships going up to a certain size shouldn't require constant refueling like smaller ships require.

A reactor needs fuel.  Bigger ships should have larger range of fuel is a thing, certainly, but infinite fuel would require some sort of special ability/justification if not everyone has it.

I figure the ship market will be like buying your house in animal crossing.

The minute you're done paying it off a bunch of kui-tan will rush in, upgrade it without asking, then charge you for it?

 

[MESeele]

Not quite what I had in mind, but yeah, maybe. Though I'm thinking Raskvel. Or perhaps you can invest in Aurora enough that she goes full blown ship mechanic. We've seen what she can do with a toy ray-gun and a broken ship. Imagine the possibilities...

 

[Galgano]

The minute you're done paying it off a bunch of kui-tan will rush in, upgrade it without asking, then charge you for it?

Since this is TiTS, I wouldn't be surprised if, instead, they came in and had celebratory sex with you.

Not quite what I had in mind, but yeah, maybe. Though I'm thinking Raskvel. Or perhaps you can invest in Aurora enough that she goes full blown ship mechanic. We've seen what she can do with a toy ray-gun and a broken ship. Imagine the possibilities...

Having both Aurora and Shekka be your mechanics would be interesting. Each one would have different specialties and could upgrade your ship in different ways. This game seems to love the either/or mechanic. So why not have two mechanics being the "level up" system for ships?

 

[Nik_van_Rijn]

While starship upgrade options is always fun, simply having either of those two beautiful wrench wenches on board would be glorious, both of them - magnificent. However Aurora is a minor, so endangering her by bringing with you into space would be super irresponsible, and Shekka has her hands full at the moment. At least the latter can be addressed by some sort of recruitment quest.

 

[Savin]

Savin, would there be a way to set how much you will spend initially that would determine how much the payments would be? Also, if you're capable of straight up buying the ship, you would not have to worry about payments.

Yes, yes. 

Would there at least be a cap on the payments for the ship? Like, if you pay 10,000 credits for something that costs...15,000, after payments equating to 5,000 (plus interest) credits, would Steele no longer have to make payments? 

That makes sense.

On another topic, since we'll have some quests for salvage and stuff, are we going to attach storyline to some of the quests? Like, you are going to go salvage something from X location, but while there, you meet...I don't know Kaede or someone like that. They're trying to do the same thing. Or maybe introduce a new character via the mission. Someone else is on the run from the Black Void, or you meet the Black Void at the scene because this particular salvage is of vital importance to them. Ooh, that would be such a great way to add content. Eh, but what do I know, I'm just a forum plebeian.

Who knows, none of this has been really hashed out. 

 

[Galgano]

While starship upgrade options is always fun, simply having either of those two beautiful wrench wenches on board would be glorious, both of them - magnificent. However Aurora is a minor, so endangering her by bringing with you into space would be super irresponsible, and Shekka has her hands full at the moment. At least the latter can be addressed by some sort of recruitment quest.

They don't necessarily have to be brought onboard. You could just go to Tarkus to get the upgrade done to the ship. Although if you only have Aurora as your mechanic, you run...certain risks based on your decisions.

 

[Decanter]

All ships run on savicite, though it's not clear if it's used as solid crystals or liquifacted.

I thought that was the psionics-related crystal?

That said, I would probably discourage making fuel a concern.  It makes for a money tax on just going from place to place, not to mention the possibility of getting stuck somewhere on accident because you ran just a little too short on gas to get back to a gas station and didn't realize until half an hour of content later.

I agree with all of this.

 

[Lashcharge]

Excuse fuel away by having steele tech giving it to you.

 

[Karretch]

 

I thought that was the psionics-related crystal?

 It is. It's also ship fuel. A lot of finding of psychics happen in savicite mining operations. I think it's said somewhere in the Uveto doc and/or thread

 

[Nik_van_Rijn]

 It is. It's also ship fuel. A lot of finding of psychics happen in savicite mining operations. I think it's said somewhere in the Uveto doc and/or thread

So, it's essentially Warpstone, huh? I approve. If only there were more rat people around in TiTS.

 

[Ormael]

Ho Ho Ho that makes me think about joke how psychics born after tanking enough "fuel". Hmm if we ever get bioships then...ohh psychic wielding ships....ohhh that quite odd vision. Since well for inorganic things savicite is jsut fuel, for organic catalist for getting psionic powers so for bioship it would be both I think (or probably will be handwaved that it will act as only fuel).

 

[Savin]

So, it's essentially Warpstone, huh? I approve. If only there were more rat people around in TiTS.

Mordheim pls. 

 

[King of Kings]

I like how everyone has completely forgotten about a group of classes of ships already in the game.

They are currently sitting above Myrellion in a fleet waiting for orders to ether glass the planet, send down more aid, or pack up and leave.

Military class ships will have to make some sort of impact in this game, no-one goes flying through space where pirates abound without some sort of milita or military presence. Plus who here doesn't want to own some sort of Destroyer-class ship with enough room for all your waifus AND husbandos, every little trinket and bauble found during your trip, space for your smaller vessels and still enough room for Hand So to make a sex-lab and a bedroom for Celise to trasnform at will and enjoy her space life filled with cocks and cunts and all manner of reproductive organs. Let's also not get sidetracked on the feeling of coming across a couple of pirates who think they got the skills to be a badass, only to come face to barrel of a couple of ion cannons that are charged and pointed right at their faces.

Though the player use of military combat vessels will most likely be non-existant, or only mentioned in passing, cause we are all here for the space adventure!

 

[Ormael]

For ship sizes it was once meantioned in old forum what types of them we will see with capitol ship size been the largest one (and afaik with unlimited space for all out waifu/husbandos ^^). Abotu fleet over Myrelion I think some meantioned we can as PC accidentlay trigger glassing surface ^^ (thatt interesting does we have main ship in that fleet been of this fabled capital ship class size or something smaller? Well not like it would change anything since we only getting vague description of huge fleet on orbit without longer description of more noticable units in it)

 

[Savin]

The fleet over Myrellion is made up of Confederate warships, so it's pretty safe to assume at least some of them are capital ships. 

 

[ShySquare]

Am I really the only one who dreams of flying around the galaxy in a replica of the USS Enterprise ?

Granted, it needs 400-ish people to maneuver it, but given the number of lovers and offsprings one could have in this game... Which makes me think, will we be able to recruit only lovers as crewmembers ? I mean, if none of them has skills that are useful in a spaceship, we could rapidly get in trouble...

 

[easykiln]

Pretty sure there is no such restriction. But when writing a follower capable character they usually end up romanceable because of the nature of the game. Just let your handy AI Hand So take care of most of the ship's functions. Anno is a scientist and Bess apparently is capable of tuning up your ship too. I wanted a ship cat but Savin didn't want people begging him for beastiality. I want to hire Aurora but I think it would be a shame to take her away from Novahome.

 

[Galgano]

 Hmm if we ever get bioships then...ohh psychic wielding ships....ohhh that quite odd vision.

I remember a webcomic I read. The ship in that comic could be moved through normal means, but most of the ship systems could only be operated by the ship captain, and the captain had to be a psychic. Your statement reminded me of that.