Settlement Expansions?

[Shiny Boots]

I couldn't find an outline anywhere or a recent post so as to not necro an old thread that may not even exist I thought I'd make a new one.

I was wondering if there are plans for any of the settlements and cities to be expanded upon? But like more than a few tiles.

The two biggest settlements(In narrative) I've come across were The Winter City and Hawkthorne though in game they're more just like two streets. With over half of the tiles in Hawkthorne not actually being part of the settlement itself and through my testing don't have any encounters.

(There's no map of the Winter City on the wiki)

Surprisingly the tribal camps seem more evened out.

(Centaur Camp also lacks wiki map)

Heck the farm in Harvest Valley and the Leothran camp can't actually be traversed with both just being button prompts. Which is strange since Evergreen's mansion is partially traversable.

Now I'm not asking for Tavros. The nursery there is a full two level building with a tile dedicated entirely to a bathroom that you only use in very specific circumstances.

(Pictured so you don't have to go to the wiki yourself)

This isn't a callout post or anything. The pictures I'm providing just show what I'm talking about better than what I could put into words.


Now my original assumption was that there's a desire to keep Hawkthorne as a hub city so the player doesn't need to teleport or travel on foot to buy some stuff but now the Wayfort is getting merchants and NPCs are now moving to other places.

So yeah back to the reason why made this thread. Is there anything in the works? Or is it at least being discussed? The vertical street in Hawkthorne is getting rather crowded.

Spoiler: Nitpick, feel free to ignore.

(As just a minor nitpick Ninian's "house" is specifically in an alley so a tile representing that alley would be nice >.>)

 

[WolframL]

This is a text game so there isn't really a need to make maps scaled relative to the size of the area, instead they're sized based on however much space is necessary for the gameplay. There's nothing for you to do (directly) in any particular house in the Winter City so there isn't a massive map of tiles containing nothing but descriptive text, which would get in the way of things and take a lot of time to boot. You can explore the city separately by hanging out with Ryn but that doesn't need dedicated map tiles.

Places like the Warcamp and the Centaur Village are comfortably larger than the number of strictly necessary tiles because they're dungeons first and town zones second so having a few spaces between encounters allows things like the 'get disguises to bypass the guards' segment work without feeling obviously artificial like the Den does on your first visit, only to expand once you've finished that quest. And Hawkethorne's map is huge because of the tutorial and the desire to emphasize that the castle is a good walk away.

Savin has said with regard to Winter City that there are no plans to add shops and the like, but if someone wants to write them he wouldn't be opposed to it. Presumably this would apply to other locations as well, if someone wants to write an expansion and it doesn't conflict with any other plans for the location/otherwise meets submission standards. About the only thing that's probably a non-starter at this point would be any NPC that would need to go to the Frost Hound because it's running out of space for additional NPCs.

 

[Shiny Boots]

This is a text game

So was CoC-1 and it didn't use a world map... In fact I did question why this game did implement one.

emphasize that the castle is a good walk away.

As a text game this could be satisfied with a paragraph and pushing the clock significantly forward with a single button click. The first game did something like this. Heck TiTs does that for certain events.

I want it to be clear I'm not pointing this out as a "gotcha!" I just don't think it being a "text game" as an explanation is very strong when you could have just left it at more tiles not being necessary for the gameplay.

But I do thank you for linking me to Savin's post.

 

[Emerald]

So was CoC-1 and it didn't use a world map... In fact I did question why this game did implement one.

CoC1 is an old ass game compared to this. And traveling in that game was annoying as shit because it's so much more rng dependent to get the NPC you want rather than putting them in a solid place on a map tile and knowing exactly where they are to go there.

 

[Upcast Drake]

A sequence of tiles doesn't represent a birds-eye view of streets. If we were to overlay for example, the Winter City's map tiles over an actual bird's eye view of it, there'd be all kinds of areas that you are never able to access. Each "tile" is more like a city block.

The scales for different maps are different too, since we're not in the business of adding tons and tons of unnecessary tiles to a map just to make the scale right.

 

[Shiny Boots]

CoC1 is an old ass game compared to this

I don't see what this is supposed to mean. There are text games coming out today that still don't have a traversable map. A good example in recent memory is a Vampire: The Masquerade game made by Choice Games on steam. Came out September last year. It's more linear as a whole but in the way that the events I was referring to are.

And traveling in that game was annoying as shit

I personally disagree but I won't give you flack for a difference in opinion.

The scales for different maps are different too

I'm not asking for settlements to be to scale. Dear god no. I'm stupid not crazy.

Fluff aside the question was this and it was answered.

I was wondering if there are plans for any of the settlements and cities to be expanded upon?

 

[Savin]

I was wondering if there are plans for any of the settlements and cities to be expanded upon? But like more than a few tiles.

Not really. New tiles may be added to the settlements as needed but aside from Hawkethorne and Marefolk Village, most of them are pretty barren right now. No reason to make them bigger.

The Winter City, for example, isn't really meant to be a settlement in the same way Hawkethorne is -- it just exists as backdrop for a dungeon. Making it any bigger than just the main thoroughfares would be a waste of time and space.

As a text game this could be satisfied with a paragraph and pushing the clock significantly forward with a single button click.

This is mostly what we do already; but nobody reads room descriptions or pays attention to the clock. At least that's what all evidence suggests.

The vertical street in Hawkthorne is getting rather crowded.

That's just an issue with A) everyone wants to write content for the hub zone (it is more prestigious, gets more eyes on it, and requires less effort/research than anywhere else) and also Hawkethorne is the only metropolitan settlement right now; the others are all by and large monoethnic so what makes sense to be found there is rather limited. As you'll see in an hour or two from this post, you can just as easily have an anubian in HT as you can an orc or an elf or a catgirl. That's sorta how hubs be. Meanwhile sticking my moth in the Marefolk Village (as the name suggests) requires a little more thought and effort. Not much, but enough to make people not wanna do it.

 

[Exrav]

anubian

Those exist?

 

[Shiny Boots]

nobody reads room descriptions

Which is a shame because some of the locations generally read like they'd be beautiful to see.

Meanwhile sticking my moth in the Marefolk Village (as the name suggests) requires a little more thought and effort.

If it means anything I appreciate the effort. It makes more sense to have her be in a place that isn't freezing and toplessness is a social norm.

 

[Wint3rRyd3r]

Which is a shame because some of the locations generally read like they'd be beautiful to see.


If it means anything I appreciate the effort. It makes more sense to have her be in a place that isn't freezing and toplessness is a social norm.

Or you know, she could wear a shirt. Like a normal person. Joking about her (lack) of clothing choice aside I'm really glad she has more content outside of her weird attempts to fuck bitches and get money. Of which she is very successful in the former. And she gives me a reason to go to the marefolk village. The devs and contributors can and possibly will add more squares or use existing ones, It just boils down to where and when they put content. Though I think we can expect Hawkethorne to get crowded. It's the primary hub after all. The player's bed is there, storage is there, most of the vendors are there, it links to the first 3 major areas, and even if you prefer a tent you'll probably have to go back there at some point. Most contributors are probably gonna add there content in Hawkethorne because it's easier and makes more sense in universe. Personally, I'd like more expansions to the Winter city. But it sounds like, for the foreseeable future at least, that would rest on contributors. Given how far away Tychris is in universe, are there plans to make it a secondary hub, or to in general add another hub?

 

[Shiny Boots]

Given how far away Tychris is in universe

It is? The wiki implies we'll be going there.

"The Champion may elect to force their way past her in combat, or if they have resolved the Princess' Dilemma questline in Tychris, order her to step aside in the en Tychris name (this is not implemented yet)."

 

[Wint3rRyd3r]

It is? The wiki implies we'll be going there.

"The Champion may elect to force their way past her in combat, or if they have resolved the Princess' Dilemma questline in Tychris, order her to step aside in the en Tychris name (this is not implemented yet)."

According to the wiki, and what I remember from dialogue, it's 30 miles away. So it's a distance, and there's no telling what the terrain would be like on the way there. So even those 30 miles could take longer. Unless it's a flat plain on the way there, It's probably gonna take almost a day. But I suck with estimates so keep that in mind.

 

[WolframL]

We have all sorts of confirmation that we're going to Tychris eventually and have had it for a while. And Moira has been doing some 'mander art recently so it's probably approaching 'sooner(ish) rather than later territory'.

 

[Shiny Boots]

So even those 30 miles could take longer.

Approximately 10 hours of normal paced walking if the path there primarily flat terrain.

Taking into account rest, eating, and bathroom breaks realistically it'd take like a day or two.

Edit: Seeing as Cait and her family were heading there, we might catch a ride on a caravan cutting it down to half a day.

 

[The Observer]

It's a four-hour stagecoach ride to Tychris from Hawkethorne.

Take that as you will.

 

[zagzig]

And for every post in the Gripes thread, they're going to add another movement square between Hawkethorne and Tychris you have to click through.

And if too many people gripe about that, the waystone in Tychris might just disappear.

 

[Shiny Boots]

And for every post in the Gripes thread, they're going to add another movement square between Hawkethorne and Tychris you have to click through.

And if too many people gripe about that, the waystone in Tychris might just disappear.

Your threats be they empty or not do not frighten me. Give me 100 tiles! Immersion 10/10!!!

It's a four-hour stagecoach ride to Tychris from Hawkethorne.

Take that as you will.

Jesus Christ! What do they feed the horses in the Marches????

 

[Number13]

Jesus Christ! What do they feed the horses in the Marches????

Whiskey.

 

[Savin]

It's a four-hour stagecoach ride to Tychris from Hawkethorne.

Take that as you will.

That is not true

 

[The Observer]

My bad. It is a couple of days.

 

[Animalistic]

snil

It is still a sily idea to make an entire city just as an excuse for you to put 2 dungeons. One being a seasonal event. Like, the entire concept of Boriel elves feels wasted if there main hub only contains 2 and a half elves. Especially if they are going to directly be involved with the content of Wayfort. And with their quee being our companion. Aronas Camp feels much more lived in than Elf homepage! And that is place that was build by bunch of knuckleheads overnight with all wood and nails but no hammers at hand.

 

[Emerald]

It is still a sily idea to make an entire city just as an excuse for you to put 2 dungeons. One being a seasonal event. Like, the entire concept of Boriel elves feels wasted if there main hub only contains 2 and a half elves. Especially if they are going to directly be involved with the content of Wayfort. And there queen is going to be our companion. Aronas Camp feels much more lived in than Elf homepage. And that is place that was build by bunch of knuckleheads overnight with all wood and nails but no hammers at hand.

The ghost dungeon isn't seasonal, it's year-round, it just fit the Halloween theme when it was released in October, because ya know, ghosts and hauntings and banshees fit the spoopy theme.
If you're thinking of seasonal Winter City things I think you're confusing the dungeon with the Christmas Ball.

 

[Animalistic]

The ghost dungeon isn't seasonal, it's year-round, it just fit the Halloween theme when it was released in October, because ya know, ghosts and hauntings and banshees fit the spoopy theme.
If you're thinking of seasonal Winter City things I think you're confusing the dungeon with the Christmas Ball.

My mistake. It was released neee Halloween so I associated with holiday event. My point still stands. Even compared to basic dungeons in TiTs , that place still feels baren like Cait.

 

[Balaknightfang]

Even compared to basic dungeons in TiTs , that place still feels baren like Cait.

Ah yes, of course
Because you do so much in the stellar tether after completing it.
And there's so many repeatable scenes in Taivra's dungeon after you get the probe
The pirate base from Kara's quest has lots of repeatable content
Need I go on? I can keep listing the dungeons. They're pretty much all in the category of "unlocks less than the winter city does in terms of repeatable content and characters"

 

[Shiny Boots]

Ah yes, of course
Because you do so much in the stellar tether after completing it.
And there's so many repeatable scenes in Taivra's dungeon after you get the probe
The pirate base from Kara's quest has lots of repeatable content
Need I go on? I can keep listing the dungeons. They're pretty much all in the category of "unlocks less than the winter city does in terms of repeatable content and characters"

Honestly some of the dungeons in TiTs would have been enjoyable to reenter. Mostly the ships and places that didn't explode.

While I've accepted that the Winter City isn't getting expanded upon by the main staff it was kind of a let down considering the massive build up. Like Ryn changing the tile description of like 80% of Frostwood telling us the history of her race.

That and the like 3 scenes describing massive crowds shows the city is rather populated. I've said elsewhere that I'm accepting of it not getting an expansion any time soon but I'm not gonna deny that there was considerable build up. It was actually the first place I found. I just backed off because I wanted to finish off all of Frostwood assuming I'd be stuck in the city for awhile after that.

 

[Balaknightfang]

While I've accepted that the Winter City isn't getting expanded upon by the main staff it was kind of a let down considering the massive build up.

I should note, I know for a fact that there's at least one other NPC for the winter city coming that's been publicly talked about on the discord

 

[Animalistic]

Ah yes, of course
Because you do so much in the stellar tether after completing it.
And there's so many repeatable scenes in Taivra's dungeon after you get the probe
The pirate base from Kara's quest has lots of repeatable content
Need I go on? I can keep listing the dungeons. They're pretty much all in the category of "unlocks less than the winter city does in terms of repeatable content and characters"

I mean in terms overall content put in to the dungeon . Not just repetablem one.
All of interesting stuff happens at the end of quest with Kas. After that, all you are left is with barren city. And what is worse, this is story related one. Tied to major event. It just feels there.

 

[Alypia]

I mean in terms overall content put in to the dungeon . Not just repetablem one.
All of interesting stuff happens at the end of quest with Kas. After that, all you are left is with barren city. And what is worse, this is story related one. Tied to major event. It just feels there.

Even if you don't enjoy the tens of thousands of words that have been pumped into the Winter City since the Palace of Ice dropped, the content still exists.

 

[Animalistic]

Even if you don't enjoy the tens of thousands of words that have been pumped into the Winter City since the Palace of Ice dropped, the content still exists.

Yeah, it does exist. That seasonal event was nice. A great one in a lot of aspects. It truly makes Winter City feel like a city for short time that it lasts. To bad it only happens once a year. And Ryns date also does show daily life of elves abd their culture now that I remember. That spooky dungeon was also nice.
Like, I appreciate what you all have written. Still does not really fix the problem that the main city, birth place and place of culture of Boriel elves still feels like it is in its early prototype faze.

 

[Shiny Boots]

That seasonal event

Any list of these? Wiki only states a few Halloween ones.