Really? Well sheeeeit. Why are they statted together as a blob instead of separately like other group enemies?
Still, I think my point stands; overall, Detonation Charge is useful way more often than Carpet Grenades.
Questions about the available classes and builds
- Thread starter Rocketman
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Still, I think my point stands; overall, Detonation Charge is useful way more often than Carpet Grenades.
They were made before the group combat system was created
Could you share what ability perks and stats you had for those two classes? Read on another one of my posts that you replied to that you only leveled Intelligence for your melee tech specialist but I wonder what ability perks you chose that would make it that viable.
Mixing colums is not that bad, as long as you stay consistent with melee or ranged...
Things you do not do with your weapon, you can be creative with. And of course, certain things just synergise well.
Charge Weapon and Second Attack. It really is that good. +Intelligence Electric damage on all basic Melee attacks for the entire fight. For reference, normally you only get 1/2 either Physique or Aim as bonus damage to Melee or Ranged respectively. Most enemies in the early game don't resist or are weak to Electric damage, especially on Tarkus between the Sex Bots and Grey Goo. Shields pretty much always take 50% more damage from Electric.
All of that for 15 Energy that is easily regained via Deflector Regeneration.
If you get the Custom Shock Gear from Shizuya, Bonus Hit Rate means your 2nd attack each round ignores the usual Accuracy penalty. Stun Chance means you have a 1/5 chance to Stun on each hit. At level 10 you get Rapid Recharge, which restores Intelligence/3 + 3 Shields each round you don't take Shield damage. Stuns from Stun Chance last 2 rounds, so 40 Shields each time you get a Stun (with 50 Intelligence). If you have average luck, you can completely tank Roz (or Shock Hopper, only tested with a character that canFly) without taking HP damage, using Deflector Regen or Charge Weapon. If you're unlucky with Stuns, you can use Paralyzing Shock.
Your Auto-perks make your Shields significantly more durable as well. Enhanced Dampeners mean you're shields vulnerabilities are halved, so most Shields only take 25% more damage from Electric, for example. Advanced Shielding means you now are much more resistant most things but especially Kinetic.
With Static Burst, you don't care so much about Grapples.
Other perks
Attack Drone:
I took it initially because conventional wisdom said Shield Booster was much better. I wanted to see just how much Attack Drone sucked. Turns out, it doesn't. It's a guaranteed* extra attack against an enemy that does damage comparable to a low Physique hit, especially after you pick up Drone Control. You can take Shield Booster, you lose out on Tam-Wolf 2.0 and the Laser Sentry Drone and +1 damage/level. I found I didn't miss the extra Shields very much, especially after level 10.
*Always hits (grounded targets, 50% flying). Attack is not dependent on you attacking. You can use a special ability or switch weapons or struggle to escape a grapple or just wait. It's actually kind of satisfying to just Wait against a target that's no threat whatsoever. Just let your attack dog take care of them. In group fights, it is also a more efficient way to take out a weakened enemy instead of wasting your second attack because you defeated your target with the first.
Deflector Regeneration:
4/3 as many Shields as Power Surge (same formula, divided by 3 and applied for 4 rounds).
Gravidic Disruptor:
I took it mostly for the Unresistable damage. I actually don't use it much. Thermal Disruptor would have been better for the Janeria fight.
Weapon Tweaks:
20% more base weapon damage is pretty minor. It's made mostly irrelevant by Physique bonus and especially Charge Weapon. Gun Tweaks is probably a little more impactful, since I expect it to be doubled with Overcharge.
Charge Shield/Shield Hack:
I actually skip this row entirely. Neither stand out as particularly useful.
Second Attack:
Obviously. +Intelligence Electric damage twice/round.
Drone Control:
I took Attack Drone, so this was a no-brainer. Even without it, I hardly ever actually use Paralyzing Shock. The last time was Amara Faell, but I was level 8, so...
Boosted Charges:
Technically, I might get better mileage out of Linked Emitters, since I don't actually use Gravidic Disruptor very often. Then again, the FZR Fire Suppression System + Custom Shock Gear combo means automatic Critical hits, so actual Critical chance is irrelevant.
Stats:
The low Physique run was just to see how long I could get away with ignoring it. These days I take a week and go to the Ten Ton Gym between Tarkus and Myrellion. I put my Affinity in Physique.
I kept Intelligence maxed at all times.
I ignored all other stats until after Zheng Shi because of the Augment-Weave Armor, which makes working out much more convenient. By default, working out twice, then sleeping leaves 1 extra Soreness point. With Augment-Weave, you fully remove Soreness. In fact, if you get extra Energy from somewhere, you can work out three times, then sleep and still have no net Soreness gain.
When I reached Zheng Shi my stats were (level 9):
Physique 25
Reflexes 10
Aim 10
Intelligence 45
Willpower 4 (without Resolve bonuses)
All of that for 15 Energy that is easily regained via Deflector Regeneration.
If you get the Custom Shock Gear from Shizuya, Bonus Hit Rate means your 2nd attack each round ignores the usual Accuracy penalty. Stun Chance means you have a 1/5 chance to Stun on each hit. At level 10 you get Rapid Recharge, which restores Intelligence/3 + 3 Shields each round you don't take Shield damage. Stuns from Stun Chance last 2 rounds, so 40 Shields each time you get a Stun (with 50 Intelligence). If you have average luck, you can completely tank Roz (or Shock Hopper, only tested with a character that canFly) without taking HP damage, using Deflector Regen or Charge Weapon. If you're unlucky with Stuns, you can use Paralyzing Shock.
Your Auto-perks make your Shields significantly more durable as well. Enhanced Dampeners mean you're shields vulnerabilities are halved, so most Shields only take 25% more damage from Electric, for example. Advanced Shielding means you now are much more resistant most things but especially Kinetic.
With Static Burst, you don't care so much about Grapples.
Other perks
Attack Drone:
I took it initially because conventional wisdom said Shield Booster was much better. I wanted to see just how much Attack Drone sucked. Turns out, it doesn't. It's a guaranteed* extra attack against an enemy that does damage comparable to a low Physique hit, especially after you pick up Drone Control. You can take Shield Booster, you lose out on Tam-Wolf 2.0 and the Laser Sentry Drone and +1 damage/level. I found I didn't miss the extra Shields very much, especially after level 10.
*Always hits (grounded targets, 50% flying). Attack is not dependent on you attacking. You can use a special ability or switch weapons or struggle to escape a grapple or just wait. It's actually kind of satisfying to just Wait against a target that's no threat whatsoever. Just let your attack dog take care of them. In group fights, it is also a more efficient way to take out a weakened enemy instead of wasting your second attack because you defeated your target with the first.
Deflector Regeneration:
4/3 as many Shields as Power Surge (same formula, divided by 3 and applied for 4 rounds).
Gravidic Disruptor:
I took it mostly for the Unresistable damage. I actually don't use it much. Thermal Disruptor would have been better for the Janeria fight.
Weapon Tweaks:
20% more base weapon damage is pretty minor. It's made mostly irrelevant by Physique bonus and especially Charge Weapon. Gun Tweaks is probably a little more impactful, since I expect it to be doubled with Overcharge.
Charge Shield/Shield Hack:
I actually skip this row entirely. Neither stand out as particularly useful.
Second Attack:
Obviously. +Intelligence Electric damage twice/round.
Drone Control:
I took Attack Drone, so this was a no-brainer. Even without it, I hardly ever actually use Paralyzing Shock. The last time was Amara Faell, but I was level 8, so...
Boosted Charges:
Technically, I might get better mileage out of Linked Emitters, since I don't actually use Gravidic Disruptor very often. Then again, the FZR Fire Suppression System + Custom Shock Gear combo means automatic Critical hits, so actual Critical chance is irrelevant.
Stats:
The low Physique run was just to see how long I could get away with ignoring it. These days I take a week and go to the Ten Ton Gym between Tarkus and Myrellion. I put my Affinity in Physique.
I kept Intelligence maxed at all times.
I ignored all other stats until after Zheng Shi because of the Augment-Weave Armor, which makes working out much more convenient. By default, working out twice, then sleeping leaves 1 extra Soreness point. With Augment-Weave, you fully remove Soreness. In fact, if you get extra Energy from somewhere, you can work out three times, then sleep and still have no net Soreness gain.
When I reached Zheng Shi my stats were (level 9):
Physique 25
Reflexes 10
Aim 10
Intelligence 45
Willpower 4 (without Resolve bonuses)
Shoot First:
I know, I know, Low Blow is the meta choice. Didn't find myself using it much, and it doesn't work on everything.
Aimed Shot:
As I decided to go Ranged, this was the only sensible choice.
Stealth Field Generator:
80% extra evasion on demand is nice, especially in the early game where Evasion from equipment is insignificant. I haven't played much since the Evasion and Accuracy rework, so I don't know how they interact.
I've been thinking about doing a Disarming Shot test, but after learning it doesn't work on the Corona Lord Flamer because it would disable all of her attacks, I'm less inclined to view it as useful.
Grenade:
I actually don't use this much, just against Void Pirates early on and the Security Droids during Anno's recruitment.
Quickdraw:
Allows switching between weapons to suit the target and still get Shoot First/Alpha Strike.
Smuggled Stimulant:
Is there any ability that takes more than 25 Energy? If not, this is strictly superior to Burst of Energy. More total, and you don't need more than 25/turn anyway.
Second Shot:
Ranged.
Alpha Strike:
Maybe it's just me, but I never want to be below 50% health. If I am, I've done something very wrong, and an extra 7% Crit chance won't save me.
Undecided
Zheng Shi stats (Level 8)
Physique: 3
Reflexes: 3
Aim: 40
Intelligence: 40
Willpower: 1
I know, I know, Low Blow is the meta choice. Didn't find myself using it much, and it doesn't work on everything.
Aimed Shot:
As I decided to go Ranged, this was the only sensible choice.
Stealth Field Generator:
80% extra evasion on demand is nice, especially in the early game where Evasion from equipment is insignificant. I haven't played much since the Evasion and Accuracy rework, so I don't know how they interact.
I've been thinking about doing a Disarming Shot test, but after learning it doesn't work on the Corona Lord Flamer because it would disable all of her attacks, I'm less inclined to view it as useful.
Grenade:
I actually don't use this much, just against Void Pirates early on and the Security Droids during Anno's recruitment.
Quickdraw:
Allows switching between weapons to suit the target and still get Shoot First/Alpha Strike.
Smuggled Stimulant:
Is there any ability that takes more than 25 Energy? If not, this is strictly superior to Burst of Energy. More total, and you don't need more than 25/turn anyway.
Second Shot:
Ranged.
Alpha Strike:
Maybe it's just me, but I never want to be below 50% health. If I am, I've done something very wrong, and an extra 7% Crit chance won't save me.
Undecided
Zheng Shi stats (Level 8)
Physique: 3
Reflexes: 3
Aim: 40
Intelligence: 40
Willpower: 1
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I appreciate you sharing your builds. Questions:
"Charge Weapon and Second Attack. It really is that good. +Intelligence Electric damage on all basic Melee attacks for the entire fight. For reference, normally you only get 1/2 either Physique or Aim as bonus damage to Melee or Ranged respectively. Most enemies in the early game don't resist or are weak to Electric damage, especially on Tarkus between the Sex Bots and Grey Goo. Shields pretty much always take 50% more damage from Electric.
All of that for 15 Energy that is easily regained via Deflector Regeneration." - How does Deflector Regeneration regain energy? The wiki doesn't say anything about energy regen for that perk...
I take it that Thermal Disruptor is a better chose to take over Gravidic Disruptor? (Even if it isn't used much)
I'm not sure if you are implying that Gun Tweaks is a better chose over Weapon Tweaks or not for your current build...
Between Boosted Charges & Linked Emitters - which would provide the better future proofing in case they nerf the FZR & CSG combo?
Also, were you trying to make a more aggressive version of Mei from Overwatch with your melee tech specialist?
With your smuggler build, there is something that I don't understand. To my knowledge (and I could be very wrong), the Smuggler depends on inflicting status on enemies to do good burst damage. The only skill in your build that inflicts a status is Flash Grenade and there are only two ranged weapons (Heavy Slut Ray & Shock Bow) that inflict the Stun Chance. So, how does your smuggler do good damage to higher level enemies? Is your smuggler your tease build?
If you could redo your chose of perks for your two builds, what would you change (if any)?
40 energy over four combat rounds once per combat.
I'm not actually sure. Thermal Disruptor is especially effective for a fight that seems specifically designed to counter Melee Techs (heals from Electric, weak to Thermal and Freezing, immune to Paralyzing Shock). It's been pointed out that it's unlikely something will be immune to Electric + Freezing + Burning at the same time, so it's probably safe to take (if you stick with the FZR combo). I still like the idea of Unresistable damage.
The big reasons I don't use it much are:
1. It's a big Energy drain and the Tech has enough problems regaining Energy.
2. Charge Weapon is enough for pretty much everything.
3. Custom Shock Gear + Rapid Recharge makes even Charge Weapon unnecessary for most fights.
I did use it to beat Shizuya at level 9, though.
I'm saying Weapon Tweaks really isn't as impactful as it might sound and Gun Tweaks likely makes level 6 a larger boost for the Ranged Tech.
The FZR + Crushing combo is ridiculously overpowered and also completely unnecessary. The Melee Tech is actually fine ignoring it and just focusing on normal melee attacks.
No. I already had a Ranged character and was trying to use a different set of weapons.
You know, I thought about listing my equipment, but decided the post was big enough already.
When arriving at Zheng Shi:
Melee Weapon: Custom Shock Gear
Ranged Weapon: FZR Fire Suppression System
Armor: Atma Armor Mk. I
Shield: Reaper Armaments Mark I Shield Generator
Accessory: Fenris-Class Assault Drone, Version 2.0
Ranged Weapon: FZR Fire Suppression System
Armor: Atma Armor Mk. I
Shield: Reaper Armaments Mark I Shield Generator
Accessory: Fenris-Class Assault Drone, Version 2.0
Melee Weapon: Bothrioc Rapier
Ranged Weapon: Shock Bow/Royal Shard Bow
Armor: Revealing Armor
Shield: Reaper Armaments Mark I Shield Generator
Accessory: Light Jetpack
Unless and until there is another Ranged Stun weapon*, the Shock Bow is the best weapon for raw damage for the Ranged Smuggler, hands-down. Royal Shard Bow has better Evasion (highest for a Ranged weapon, tied with Zil Champion), and I use it against anything that isn't highly resistant to Drug. If something is resistant/immune, I switch to the Shock Bow. Quick Draw means I can still get the third attack from Shoot First.
Sneak Attack is completely independent of your weapon damage and is most of your damage output.
*I'm concerned they never will. Rapid Fire + Second Shot with a Stun Chance would be hilariously overpowered. It's already extremely effective with the Heavy Slut Ray.
I also recommend training with Tanis. Concussive Shot makes Queen Taivra much easier, and it's free Aim training, saving you a few level up points. I'm sure it's useful elsewhere as well.
Ranged Weapon: Shock Bow/Royal Shard Bow
Armor: Revealing Armor
Shield: Reaper Armaments Mark I Shield Generator
Accessory: Light Jetpack
Unless and until there is another Ranged Stun weapon*, the Shock Bow is the best weapon for raw damage for the Ranged Smuggler, hands-down. Royal Shard Bow has better Evasion (highest for a Ranged weapon, tied with Zil Champion), and I use it against anything that isn't highly resistant to Drug. If something is resistant/immune, I switch to the Shock Bow. Quick Draw means I can still get the third attack from Shoot First.
Sneak Attack is completely independent of your weapon damage and is most of your damage output.
Level*3 + Intelligence/2
Take Advantage: + Level*2
Target is Blinded and Stunned: + Level
Take Advantage: + Level*2
Target is Blinded and Stunned: + Level
I also recommend training with Tanis. Concussive Shot makes Queen Taivra much easier, and it's free Aim training, saving you a few level up points. I'm sure it's useful elsewhere as well.
I'm pretty happy with my choices. We'll see how the game develops.
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40 energy over four combat rounds once per combat.
Thank you for the quick reply. I don't know why I suddenly go blind when looking at the wiki and miss important details...
I'm going to be copying your Melee Drone Tech Specialist. It looks like it will be fun.
Thank you for the quick reply. I don't know why I suddenly go blind when looking at the wiki and miss important details...
I'm going to be copying your Melee Drone Tech Specialist. It looks like it will be fun.