Questions about starting race TF items

[Raginmund]

So, I was just checking the wiki for the different starting races the PC can be, and I noticed that the majority of the starting races have their respective TF items at Tavros - which is technically the starting location for the game - or at least a location which is unlocked automatically.
However, a few of the starting races have their respective TF items purchasable on Myrellion at the earliest (full list below).

Spoiler: List of the starting race TF items, from earliest availability

Terran Treat (Human):

• Can be purchased from Sera at The Dark Chrysalis on Tavros Station for 600 credits.

Ausar Treat (Ausar):

• Can be purchased from Jade at her shop Fur Effect in Tavros Station for 600 credits.

Nepeta (Kaithrit):

• Can be purchased from Nevrie at the Xenogen Biotech Outpost on Myrellion for 600 credits (non-discount / regular price).

Leitha Charm Necklace (Leithan):

• Can be purchased from Nevrie at the Xenogen Biotech Outpost on Myrellion for 30000 credits (non-discount / regular price).

Nuki Cookies (Kui-tan):

• Can be purchased from Jade at Fur Effect in Tavros Station for 720 credits.

DracoGuard (Gryvain):

• Can be purchased from Jade at Fur Effect in Tavros Station for 720 credits.

Siren's Bounty (Suula):

• Can be purchased from Nevrie at the Xenogen Biotech Outpost on Myrellion for 8640 credits (non-discount / regular price).

I was therefore wondering if there would ever be a change to allow for all of the starting race TF items to be located at Tavros (or at least some form / derivative, such as a consumable item in place of the Leitha Charm Necklace), as Myrellion is quite far into the story to unlock TF items for the supposed starting races from character creation.

Also, I was wondering about the discrepancy in prices of the starting race TF items, is there a specific reason for this? Seeing as some are 600 credits, then others are 720 credits, and then finally some are in the thousands of credits (Siren's Bounty being 8640 credits and Leitha Charm Necklace being 30000 credits).
The only thing I could think of for the discrepancy would be the amount of effects taking place at one time (such as the Leitha Charm Necklace being passive changes, or the Siren's Bounty having a maximum of 3 - 5 changes per use).

If there was to be a potential change, I'd possibly suggest all of the starting race TF items being consumable TF items (such as having a consumable equivalent TF item for Leithans) that are purchasable at shops on Tavros for the same (consistent) price and having the same (consistent) TFs / changes per use.
I don't mean to be disingenuous with comparisons, but possibly something similar to Ivris' shop in CoC2, which has all of the starting race TF items for a relatively cheap (same / consistent) price - and located within the starting area.

 

[Theron]

Leitha Charm guarantees Steele becomes a Leithan, given enough time. It also protects against unwanted TFs. It is anomalously expensive compared to Foxfire, and takes up your Accessory, unlike Foxfire. On the other hand, there's a free one on Uveto, accessible at level 6, if you don't mind giving up the (currently useless) Broken Psi-Amp.

Suula wasn't a starter race originally. That may be why. I tried looking up if Leithan was always a starting race on the blog, but couldn't confirm one way or the other.
One thing that bothers me about Suula is Gryvain start with wings, but Suula don't. Why?

 

[TheShepard256]

if you don't mind giving up the (currently useless) Broken Psi-Amp.

Actually, getting Uveto's Leitha Charm Necklace is completely independent from getting the Broken Psi-Amp; the former is found in an abandoned camp on the surface, while the latter requires taking certain actions during a certain quest that doesn't affect anything on the surface.

One thing that bothers me about Suula is Gryvain start with wings, but Suula don't. Why?

Well, half-gryvain have two wings while full gryvain have four and full suulas have two. Maybe it's that for mammalian wings (as opposed to insectoid wings like the zil's), half-breeds consistently have two less than their parent.

 

[Theron]

Actually, getting Uveto's Leitha Charm Necklace is completely independent from getting the Broken Psi-Amp; the former is found in an abandoned camp on the surface, while the latter requires taking certain actions during a certain quest that doesn't affect anything on the surface.

Good luck getting to Uveto at level 6 while also having done KaraQuest 2 (so you can convince Kara to give up the Psi-Amp). I suppose if you've beaten Queen Taivra, you could get the coordinates from Shade. Possible, but tricky at level 6.

 

[TheShepard256]

Good luck getting to Uveto at level 6 while also having done KaraQuest 2 (so you can convince Kara to give up the Psi-Amp). I suppose if you've beaten Queen Taivra, you could get the coordinates from Shade. Possible, but tricky at level 6.

You don't need to have unlocked Uveto to get the Ice Queen quest, and once you reach level 6 you can simply delay taking distress calls (or get bad RNG) until you've completed KQ2. That's what I do.

 

[Theron]

You don't need to have unlocked Uveto to get the Ice Queen quest, and once you reach level 6 you can simply delay taking distress calls (or get bad RNG) until you've completed KQ2. That's what I do.

My point: If you want to get to Uveto as soon as possible (for the Leithian Charm), Ice Queen at Level 6 is your best bet. You can't get the Broken Psi-Amp until you've done KQ2, so you miss out on it.

 

[TheShepard256]

My point: If you want to get to Uveto as soon as possible (for the Leithian Charm), Ice Queen at Level 6 is your best bet. You can't get the Broken Psi-Amp until you've done KQ2, so you miss out on it.

Ah. I assumed you were talking about getting it at all, not ASAP.

 

[Raginmund]

Leitha Charm guarantees Steele becomes a Leithan, given enough time. It also protects against unwanted TFs. It is anomalously expensive compared to Foxfire, and takes up your Accessory, unlike Foxfire. On the other hand, there's a free one on Uveto, accessible at level 6, if you don't mind giving up the (currently useless) Broken Psi-Amp.

True, yeah that's something I somewhat addressed in my original post (the passive changes of the Leitha Charm Necklace possibly being justification for it's price), but I was moreso questioning about there possibly being a consumable TF item as well for the Leithan race, in order for it to be consistent with the other starting races TF items (as well as being purchasable for relatively the same price on Tavros). Same with possibly having a consumable TF item that has less TF / changes for the Suula race, to be consistent with the other starting races TF items (as well as being purchasable for relatively the same price on Tavros).

With the TiTS JS port under development, and the introduction of a new tutorial, I was wondering if the above would ever see any viability for the beginning portion of the game (having a bit more consistency in the TF items department for the starting races).

Suula wasn't a starter race originally. That may be why. I tried looking up if Leithan was always a starting race on the blog, but couldn't confirm one way or the other.
One thing that bothers me about Suula is Gryvain start with wings, but Suula don't. Why?

Yeah, I'm not too sure either (on either of the above - not sure if the Fenoxo Blog search function lists all instances of a searched term or just the first page), but I see TheShepard256 has some theories as to why for the latter question.

 

[mikethor007]

Yeah, I'm not too sure either (on either of the above - not sure if the Fenoxo Blog search function lists all instances of a searched term or just the first page), but I see TheShepard256 has some theories as to why for the latter question.

I've used the blog search function a couple of times. It seems wonky and a bit inconsistent. It would sometimes "find" the latest post as a result, regardless of search term. And sometimes results showed up where I couldn't immediately find my search term (maybe it searches comments too?).

Works for the most part.

 

[Baggrin]

I tried looking up if Leithan was always a starting race on the blog, but couldn't confirm one way or the other.

They were not (the first starters were human and ausar).
But they are older than the (recorded) history (of the blog).
They were definitely missing in version 0.02.52, they are available in version 0.02.55.

 

[Raginmund]

They were not (the first starters were human and ausar).
But they are older than the (recorded) history (of the blog).
They were definitely missing in version 0.02.52, they are available in version 0.02.55.

Ah, thanks for the clarification. I wonder if such information would ever be archived on the wiki, for future referencing.

 

[Baggrin]

Ah, thanks for the clarification.

Not at all!

I wonder if such information would ever be archived on the wiki, for future referencing.

Alas, for some reason the TITS wiki does not have pages with a list of changes in each version.

I am thinking about how to somehow create this page, but first I need to collect all the available information and translate it into the required format.

P.S. Regarding the originally available races. Yes, in the very first version there were only two races. But it was all about character creation. In the first PLAYABLE version, there were three races, kaithrit was added.

P.P.S. I plunged into such an abyss that you better not ask where I was. My catch was the exact answer:

 

[Raginmund]

Not at all!



Alas, for some reason the TITS wiki does not have pages with a list of changes in each version.

I am thinking about how to somehow create this page, but first I need to collect all the available information and translate it into the required format.

P.S. Regarding the originally available races. Yes, in the very first version there were only two races. But it was all about character creation. In the first PLAYABLE version, there were three races, kaithrit was added.

P.P.S. I plunged into such an abyss that you better not ask where I was. My catch was the exact answer:

View attachment 18624

Wow, thanks for doing the research.

As for the wiki not currently having such information, I can understand why, as this game has been in development for a while (so collating all the changes would be rather challenging if it wasn't done so from the very beginning).
I wish you good luck on that front (creating such a page), as it will definitely be a rather arduous endeavor.

Interesting (in reference to the screenshot, and your P.S. messages), it really contrasts the game in its current state and back then. Not to mention the very first instance of Bess being mentioned, I'd presume. Must of been around 2015 - 2016, I'd imagine.

 

[Baggrin]

Wow, thanks for doing the research.

I started doing this for my own good. I wanted to see which of the older versions (0.6.0-0.8.057) would be interesting to play. After that, for completeness, collecting information on about 120 early versions (after about 60 versions 0.02+, version 0.5.0 was immediately available) was much faster and, in a sense, easier.

As for the wiki not currently having such information, I can understand why, as this game has been in development for a while (so collating all the changes would be rather challenging if it wasn't done so from the very beginning).

It is not excluded. In fact, information on the wiki was starting to gather, I came across a (archived) page listing the very first versions (up to version 0.02.11). But, as I understand it, the wiki was located on the same (suddenly retired) hosting as the blog (and the old forum), so it went into oblivion with it. And after this event, due to the difficulty of creating a new list of changes from scratch, no one created it.

I wish you good luck on that front (creating such a page), as it will definitely be a rather arduous endeavor.

In fact, I already have a list for most of the versions. According to my rough estimates, there is no description of changes for about 15 out of 660 versions (both numbers are approximate). Plus, there are no release dates for some versions up to 0.02.11 inclusive (lost forever or my knowledge is not enough to reach archived copies of a certain part of the old blog).

But the information itself is quite complete and the simplest thing remains for me: remove from the list the parts that are not related to the versions themselves (I copied the entire blog entries and added other interesting entries here) and add internal links. Then I can go ask for registration on the wiki or just give this list to someone already present there.

I have a couple more directions for potential replenishment of the list, but so far these are only thoughts and I am not sure if they can be implemented.

Interesting (in reference to the screenshot, and your P.S. messages), it really contrasts the game in its current state and back then. Not to mention the very first instance of Bess being mentioned, I'd presume. Must of been around 2015 - 2016, I'd imagine.

9/22/2014.

P.S. If you're wondering where I took a screenshot, this is a no longer existing site http://www.taintedspace.com/ (reached by me via the Wayback Machine, but it seems so obvious anyway?)

 

[SmithEK]

They were not (the first starters were human and ausar).
But they are older than the (recorded) history (of the blog).
They were definitely missing in version 0.02.52, they are available in version 0.02.55.

That would explain why it's so easy to become full Ausar near the start of Steeles journey compared to Kaithrit or any of the other starter races.

 

[Raginmund]

I started doing this for my own good. I wanted to see which of the older versions (0.6.0-0.8.057) would be interesting to play. After that, for completeness, collecting information on about 120 early versions (after about 60 versions 0.02+, version 0.5.0 was immediately available) was much faster and, in a sense, easier.

Ah, I see.

It is not excluded. In fact, information on the wiki was starting to gather, I came across a (archived) page listing the very first versions (up to version 0.02.11). But, as I understand it, the wiki was located on the same (suddenly retired) hosting as the blog (and the old forum), so it went into oblivion with it. And after this event, due to the difficulty of creating a new list of changes from scratch, no one created it.

Hmm, that's rather unfortunate. I see the CSS for the wikis also got affected by the change in host, as is reflected on both the CoC2 wiki and the TiTS wiki. And to a lesser extent the FoE wiki, but the CSS on that one has been weird for a while.

In fact, I already have a list for most of the versions. According to my rough estimates, there is no description of changes for about 15 out of 660 versions (both numbers are approximate). Plus, there are no release dates for some versions up to 0.02.11 inclusive (lost forever or my knowledge is not enough to reach archived copies of a certain part of the old blog).

But the information itself is quite complete and the simplest thing remains for me: remove from the list the parts that are not related to the versions themselves (I copied the entire blog entries and added other interesting entries here) and add internal links. Then I can go ask for registration on the wiki or just give this list to someone already present there.

I have a couple more directions for potential replenishment of the list, but so far these are only thoughts and I am not sure if they can be implemented.

I see, well as I said before, good job with regards to that. It is unfortunate that some have been lost to time, but you've done a good job aiding in the archival process.

9/22/2014.

P.S. If you're wondering where I took a screenshot, this is a no longer existing site http://www.taintedspace.com/ (reached by me via the Wayback Machine, but it seems so obvious anyway?)

Yeah I suspected as much, I just didn't know the old domain name. Thanks for the clarification though, as I can now see what you mean - with the archived reflection of snapshots.

 

[Baggrin]

That would explain why it's so easy to become full Ausar near the start of Steeles journey compared to Kaithrit or any of the other starter races.

I'm not sure what the reason is. However, the version itself deserves attention. Nevertheless, among TFs for starting races, this TF indeed appeared first, even before the human one.

I see, well as I said before, good job with regards to that. It is unfortunate that some have been lost to time, but you've done a good job aiding in the archival process

So far, there is nothing to thank me for.
Yes, I have compiled a changelog for about 98% of versions (from 0.01 to 0.8.152 with minor gaps).
But at the moment, only I myself have access to this list.