Question about 0.62 build.

[VantagePoint]

Part of the changelog states that "Volley and Rapid Fire now properly function with multiple attacks."

What exactly does this mean? Does it mean that the level 8 perks activate even if you use these attacks? Because if so, these skills actually might have a use, due to being so horribly inaccurate, but only has the potential to gain one more attack than just using the normal attack.

*Note: The following is just me rambling.

Then again the alternatives aren't much better, Power Strike deals the same damage a regular attack at level 8 for energy and Overcharge is outright weaker with a chance to stun.

Meanwhile Smugglers are sitting on high evade with a very useful starter ability (Flashbang) which makes their dodging even higher AND increases their damage far beyond anything Mercenaries or Tech Specialists can hope to manage. (Mercenary's Headbutt has limited usage, due to extremely low damage and chance to stun along with high energy cost while there isn't much reason to use the Tech Specialist's starter ability over Overcharge)

 

[Karretch]

The issue was that it would attack once, the enemy would get their turn, then you'd attack again and then the enemy yet another turn. Basically two turns in one button press and it was not what was intended which is you get two (or three if smuggler?) attacks to their one

 

[VantagePoint]

Oh, alright then, thanks!

 

[MESeele]

So just for clarification, does Volley do 4 attacks with the lv8 perk? Or was it just a bug fix that stopped foes from getting in an extra action when the pc used those attacks?

 

[VantagePoint]

So just for clarification, does Volley do 4 attacks with the lv8 perk? Or was it just a bug fix that stopped foes from getting in an extra action when the pc used those attacks?

The Latter.

 

[MESeele]

A little disappointing tbh, why use a flurry skill when a normal attack now does almost just as well.

I find Second Shot's description a bit misleading then: "Allows you to make a second, low-accuracy attack whenever you shoot a ranged weapon." Do gun skills not count as shooting your gun? Should probably be revised to "when you make a ranged, normal attack" in that case. /grumbles

 

[VantagePoint]

A little disappointing tbh, why use a flurry skill when a normal attack now does almost just as well.

I find Second Shot's description a bit misleading then: "Allows you to make a second, low-accuracy attack whenever you shoot a ranged weapon." Do gun skills not count as shooting your gun? Should probably be revised to "when you make a ranged, normal attack" in that case. /grumbles

Honestly, the level 8 perk has made most offensive skills useless. 

Mercenary's Power Strike deals the same damage on one hit and their Rapid Fire skill is far too unreliable as an alternative.

Tech Specialist's Overcharge does less damage in exchange for a chance to stun, while the Volley skill is also too unreliable to actually use.

Smuggler isn't really affected because their damage is from getting status' off. Once Flashbang is successful, their damage increases to ridiculous levels, or if you want to further trivialize the game, Shoot First + the Royal Bow is pretty much a guarentued OHKO on every enemy in the game excluding Doctor Lash.

 

[VerySexyGrammar]

I've got to admit, whenever I see "low-accuracy" in a skill description, I immediately dismiss that skill as being entirely useless.

So while I may despise the level 8 perk (it manages to be boring *and* way too random at the same time, no small feat), at the very least, it's free.

Free as in "no Energy cost", of course. The real cost is not getting a real level 8 perk.

 

[Savin]

Yeah, doubling your damage output on basic attacks sure is a let down :V

 

[VerySexyGrammar]

Yeah, doubling your damage output on basic attacks sure is a let down :V

Not complaining about the power. It could have been a 100% chance +900% bonus to damage and I would have been the first to come here and say that it's a retarded perk.

But the way it is now, it feels like the the game just decides (for no logical reason; it just picks at random) that, on every regular attack, you either get absolutely nothing or a huge bonus.

And sure, it's strong overall, but future encounters will just be balanced around all players having that perk to compensate, won't it? So it basically gives us nothing.

It's like the game is saying "Well, this level, you don't get to make an interesting choice or get a flavorful ability or anything fun like that. No, I just decided that, from now on, your damage output will be needlessly variable because fuck you, what's why".

I don't mean to be douche about it; I genuinely think that this perk is irritating rather than fun. I can't quantify it objectively, it's just my personal opinion.

 

[Savin]

But the way it is now, it feels like the the game just decides (for no logical reason; it just picks at random) that, on every regular attack, you either get absolutely nothing or a huge bonus.

Except... it doesn't? The game's powered by what amount to dice rolls. Your REGULAR attacks can in fact miss, too. Flurry attacks just have a somewhat higher chance to miss, but they operate entirely within the pre-established mechanics of the game. You can even negate that penalty outright if you use certain weapons (like the SecureMP). 

And your argument about balance is dumb. Sure, future enemies are balanced against having that. Just like they're balanced against the gear you get, or the increase in health. By that logic, you might as well strip out the entire leveling and equipment system since, after all, whenever you gain power future encounters will just get more power to compensate! (Not that that's necessarily an invalid argument, but it's certainly not the kind of game TiTS is. You'll have to deal with the fact it's a number-crunching RPG-lite.)

 

[VerySexyGrammar]

Regular attacks practically never miss, though...

I guess I just don't like excessive randomness. I totally would use flurry attacks with that weapon or a similar one, but I'd never use them otherwise unless there were such a huge number of attacks that damage would mostly average itself out. Reliability is too important. I want to win or lose because I made smart or stupid decisions; it sucks when you do everything but the dice just say you lose, or to make huge mistakes and have the dice say you win anyway. Am I playing a game or just pulling the lever on a slot machine?

I believe my argument about progression balance makes perfect sense. A perk that says "from now on, you deal double damage" would be idiotic because you'd just double every enemy's HP to compensate, so literally nothing would have changed. Progression shouldn't be all about bigger numbers, it should be about getting more options. You only scale the content because having more options often means you're stronger or, at the very least, more versatile. When it comes to a progression system, scaling content for the sake of scaling content is pointless.

Really, if I had to summarize my issue with the level 8 perk, it's that, in addition to taking up the space of a perk that could have been interesting, it 1) does nothing beneficial for the game, and 2) will make damage output far more unreliable for the rest of the game. That's all it does.

Again, that this is a bad thing is just my personal opinion. I know some people enjoy super-random games, they probably like the perk. But hey, forums, opinions, feedback... I personally really don't like it.

Ah well. Combat is easy regardless (it's a semi-silly sex game, not a serious RPG title), I don't need a flawless combat system.

 

[MESeele]

Random skills are fun. I'll always take 1-5 weak attacks over a guaranteed 1 heavy attack, even when there's a 60% chance of dealing various increments of lower damage. Cause when you do hit the jackpot(4 or 5!), it feels great.

TiTS works a bit differently, since Flurry skills and the lv8 perk always give you the extra attacks, but miss often. It feels like getting the lottery every time, only for the machine to glitch out and not give you what you won. Mechanically not very different. But it feels very different for the player. The former example feels like you've won something, while the way additional attacks work in TiTS feels like you're being deprived of something.

 

[Ormael]

More options to choose from....that what I see from your words saying VSG. But I see that we already usualy not use so far gained special skills/moves/actions in most of encounters. Like when we get some boss-tier mob then it's like...omg I got specials and will use them now. So wuss over lvl 8 perks been literaly wasted lvl-up is slight misplaced imho. Actualy I could say our lifes also are like playing slot machine just in most cases radomness is almost 0 so it looks like it's quite repeatable and predictable. So now game that make it with slight wider spectrum of raomness factor is bad? Yeah well if I would lost some boss fight cuz of this I would be pissed off cuz...reasons. Now looking down the road for lvl's 9-11. So we would get or some new skills we may barely use or upgrade to skills we well use more often then barely.

Life if good ya (or smth like that what would Braum say). Sometimes we try get worked up over stuff we shouldn't.

 

[VantagePoint]

I feel the level 8 perk is fine, but I don't like how 'meh" it is on Mercenary and Tech Specialist while on Smuggler it makes their damage output completely insane.

I mean, Power Strike is more consistent than double attack, but they deal the same damage and the later is free.