On Giving Up Your Soul

[Juxtapose]

What are the actual, lore and in-game consequences of this?

In CoC1 losing your character's soul meant losing control of your character, which implied that the champion lost their freewill and personality. The entire demon menace was caused by mages giving up their souls, twisting them into beings almost entirely motivated by extreme, sociopathic hedonism.

In CoC2 the playable character will still be able to make choices as determined by the player if they give up their soul for a more through, permanent transformation, such as the level 3 kitsune one. But unlike the powerful mages who gave up their souls, the protagonist does not seem to suffer direly for this.

What does it mean for our character to lose their soul? How does a soul function in the CoC universe, why is it even there if our character can seemingly live without it just fine?

Thanks for any insights on this.

 

[Xeivous]

There's a q&a subsection for these questions yaknow...

 

[Juxtapose]

Yeah, I thought I was posting in there at first (was using my phone which loves to fuck me and already made me redo the post once due to a redirect) but I saw that other people were asking questions in the "normal threads" section and figured: "ah, nobody will care, it's not worth reposting this.. right?"

 

[Dark67titan]

What are the actual, lore and in-game consequences of this?

In CoC1 losing your character's soul meant losing control of your character, which implied that the champion lost their freewill and personality. The entire demon menace was caused by mages giving up their souls, twisting them into beings almost entirely motivated by extreme, sociopathic hedonism.

In CoC2 the playable character will still be able to make choices as determined by the player if they give up their soul for a more through, permanent transformation, such as the level 3 kitsune one. But unlike the powerful mages who gave up their souls, the protagonist does not seem to suffer direly for this.

What does it mean for our character to lose their soul? How does a soul function in the CoC universe, why is it even there if our character can seemingly live without it just fine?

Thanks for any insights on this.

bad end of some kind

 

[The Observer]

A few important things:

-Becoming a demon doesn't mean you lose total control of yourself and turn into a mindless rampaging beast, otherwise demons like Lethice and Kasyrra wouldn't be able to plan, make decisions, or come up with ideas. It does mean that you become obsessed with what you previously had a passion for prior to becoming a demon. The Marethian mages were into lewd sex magic then, so everyone got lewded out. If you were obsessed, say, with making money before becoming a demon, you'd become the greediest bastard around.

-Cumming out your soul via terminal corruption will still be a bad end. You cannot bad end just by gaining corruption, but being at 100 will put you at risk to bad ending as part of various scenes which otherwise might not have bad ended you.

-Selling your soul for power and profit, speaking mechanically, is a blocker to prevent you from promising your soul to several different deities like you could do in Skyrim. Payment up front for services rendered is the standard in Savarra. Selling, naturally, is a different process than cumming it out, the extraction process matters. As one trickster god put it:

"Imagine that you are a vase. Now, the vase is filled with water. What I would like to do is drink the water, and after that, the vase still remains a vase."

In short, they'll hold it safe for you while you go about doing things. Losing your soul will mean you can't bad end by terminal corruption - but then as part of the same scene, whoever's got the drop on you might just decide to kill you anyway, or keep you as a pet, or struggle snuggle you to death, or any of the many other ways you could bad end.

 

[Darkpheonix]

I wouldn't mind a struggle snuggle with

Spoiler: This bae

 

[SoAndSo]

I wouldn't mind a struggle snuggle with

Spoiler: This bae

yeeeeah but that's from another game...

 

[Dark67titan]

yeeeeah but that's from another game...

what game

 

[Darkpheonix]

I believe B is planning on eventual y writing her

 

[Juxtapose]

A few important things:

-Becoming a demon doesn't mean you lose total control of yourself and turn into a mindless rampaging beast, otherwise demons like Lethice and Kasyrra wouldn't be able to plan, make decisions, or come up with ideas. It does mean that you become obsessed with what you previously had a passion for prior to becoming a demon.

Ah yes, quite true. So losing your soul gives more power to your impulses and passions then, thus maybe the soul is the super ego to the id.

Cumming out your soul via terminal corruption will still be a bad end. You cannot bad end just by gaining corruption, but being at 100 will put you at risk to bad ending as part of various scenes which otherwise might not have bad ended you.

That's good to know since I do plan to make at least one corrupted demon-morph if possible in CoC2. Although a kitsune looks great for magic users as they were in CoC1. The enlightened ninetails perk and it's Foxfire was really useful. Add in Blood Magic and it was fantastic so long as one could balance healing with 50+ lust and not getting pushed to 100 lust.

-Selling, naturally, is a different process than cumming it out, the extraction process matters. As one trickster god put it:

"Imagine that you are a vase. Now, the vase is filled with water. What I would like to do is drink the water, and after that, the vase still remains a vase.":

Hmm.. how does the selling process protect one's mind anymore than just cumming out one's soul? The soul still leaves the body, but can the soul somehow stay connected to the body in some way to prevent symptoms of it's loss? Like a brain removed from a body that can still transmit signals to the body somehow?

Either way, thanks for answering my questions! Your answers cleared some things up for me and helps show that CoC has rich writing behind it.. not that anyone here doesn't know that!

 

[The Observer]

Hmm.. how does the selling process protect one's mind anymore than just cumming out one's soul?

Imagine I'm ripping out your kidney.

Now imagine I'm surgically removing your kidney, and putting something else in its place.

 

[<><]

Imagine I'm ripping out your kidney.

Now imagine I'm surgically removing your kidney, and putting something else in its place.

You're making it sound like removing your soul is like a tonsil removal, if its too corrupt we have to cut it out.

 

[TFMaster]

Like a brain removed from a body that can still transmit signals to the body somehow?

That reminds me of the Old World Blues DLC from Fallout New Vegas where you get abducted by the Big Mountain Think Tank and they remove your brain, heart, and spine. But unlike the other Lobotomies that mindlessly wander about Big Mountain performing cleanup duties The Courier still has full control over themselves because their brain is doing exactly what you described, transmitting signals to your new replacement brain. I believe that it had something to do with the bullet shrapnel still lodged in The Courier’s brain and that somehow allowed for that to happen? IDK it’s been a while since I played that game,

 

[Xeivous]

Pretty sure it had something to do with being shot in the head. I also don't remember exactly because it's also been awhile for me.

Also you can flirt with your own brain and it's amazing.

 

[Dark67titan]

fallout new vegas old town blues is really weird

 

[Juxtapose]

Imagine I'm ripping out your kidney.

Now imagine I'm surgically removing your kidney, and putting something else in its place.

Ah! "putting in something else" makes the process more sensible to me now, even though it's all magic anyways

That reminds me of the Old World Blues DLC from Fallout New Vegas where you get abducted by the Big Mountain Think Tank and they remove your brain, heart, and spine. But unlike the other Lobotomies that mindlessly wander about Big Mountain performing cleanup duties The Courier still has full control over themselves because their brain is doing exactly what you described, transmitting signals to your new replacement brain. I believe that it had something to do with the bullet shrapnel still lodged in The Courier’s brain and that somehow allowed for that to happen? IDK it’s been a while since I played that game,

It was caused by how the bullet changed your brain from the damage, rather lucky for the courier.

And The Old World Blues DLC and that entire situation is exactly what I had in mind. You have good tastes in games as well I see! (I fucking loved FO:NV)

 

[Vaalintine]

I would assume for non-demonic and non-malevolent powers (such as the trickster god) you are locking yourself into a path of devotion to them and assuring that you end up in whatever realm they control after death, barring things like Terminal Corruption. Or it could be that becoming a Kitsune requires serious spiritual retooling.

Or it coukd jist be that they don't want to take the risk that the newly minted kitsune turns into a demon.

 

[cloer]

What I'd be interested in, now that I have read this, is if there will be a way to "buy back" your soul. Like in a pawn shop.

"So, uh, yeah, I've sold you some of my soul because I needed the power, but now I've become pretty powerful myself, can I have it back, please? Here's a powerful magic artifact in return."

OR, to keep the organ comparison: What if my soul is more like a liver instead of a kidney and can partially grow back?

 

[Anomolousrabbit]

Or what if I obtain someone else's soul and implant it as a replacement for the one I sold?

 

[The Observer]

...

The point being made here is that it's a metaphysical explanation as to why you don't get to pull off a Skyrim and offer your spiritual goods to everyone. If your concern contradicts that core concern, you can likely expect the answer to be no.

 

[cloer]

So, in short, no.

I haven't played Skyrim, so I don't know exactly what went on there.

 

[Xeivous]

So, in short, no.

I haven't played Skyrim, so I don't know exactly what went on there.

Well it's something that's a bit of a problem with all TES games, but here's the schtick. The Daedric Princes are the most active deities in the setting and communicate with their followers and other interesting mortals who wish boons of them. For their boons, they ask that the interested party perform some task for the Prince as their ability to act in the realm that the games take place in 99% of the time is very limited because of lore reasons. In exchange for the task, the mortal tends to get an artifact (very powerful (at least in lore) magical item associated and/or made by the Prince) or some other boon. Though some Princes do insist that that isn't the only transaction and that they deem you to be their servant. The problem is that Daedric Princes only collect on death, probably because of the previously mentioned lore reasons, so the protagonists of Morrowind and Oblivion managed to slip out of their contracts by just not dying in various ways and the protagonist of Skyrim probably isn't going to slip out of their most important debt because of how it went down for the last person in their exact position but all three of them were still capable of selling themselves to as many of the Princes as they had opportunities to work for them. Which is what the devs want to avoid, so the deities here have a "cash up front" policy.

 

[mrpockets]

Well it's something that's a bit of a problem with all TES games, but here's the schtick. The Daedric Princes are the most active deities in the setting and communicate with their followers and other interesting mortals who wish boons of them. For their boons, they ask that the interested party perform some task for the Prince as their ability to act in the realm that the games take place in 99% of the time is very limited because of lore reasons. In exchange for the task, the mortal tends to get an artifact (very powerful (at least in lore) magical item associated and/or made by the Prince) or some other boon. Though some Princes do insist that that isn't the only transaction and that they deem you to be their servant. The problem is that Daedric Princes only collect on death, probably because of the previously mentioned lore reasons, so the protagonists of Morrowind and Oblivion managed to slip out of their contracts by just not dying in various ways and the protagonist of Skyrim probably isn't going to slip out of their most important debt because of how it went down for the last person in their exact position but all three of them were still capable of selling themselves to as many of the Princes as they had opportunities to work for them. Which is what the devs want to avoid, so the deities here have a "cash up front" policy.

my headcannon for the TES series is that the first transaction is the one that gets held up but you're playing the game so the character you're playing is basically you and you don't exist in Nirn, you basically serve as the daedric prince of player character and the boon granted is the access to the save and load function and if you're part of the PC master race you also grant access to the command console and mods. in other words all the other daedric princes are shit out of luck since the player character already belongs to you.

 

[Mister Gregar]

I don't see the issue with selling a soul to multiple people, as long as you know what you're doing. Work for Constantine (DC), he scammed three Lords of Hell into a stalemate over his soul. Of course, any game that allowed the player to do such a thing should make it insanely dangerous to attempt.

 

[Xeivous]

my headcannon for the TES series is that the first transaction is the one that gets held up but you're playing the game so the character you're playing is basically you and you don't exist in Nirn, you basically serve as the daedric prince of player character and the boon granted is the access to the save and load function and if you're part of the PC master race you also grant access to the command console and mods. in other words all the other daedric princes are shit out of luck since the player character already belongs to you.

That's a terrible headcanon.

 

[The Observer]

I don't see the issue with selling a soul to multiple people, as long as you know what you're doing.

Cash up front at time of transaction usually stops such shenanigans cold.

 

[Mister Gregar]

Cash up front at time of transaction usually stops such shenanigans cold.

Yeah, that's why the game follows that, you've said that already.

Don't see how that has anything to do with what I said, though, as I never claimed someone can or ever will be able to pull off that gambit here.

 

[Darkwarpalg6]

Don't see how that has anything to do with what I said, though, as I never claimed someone can or ever will be able to pull off that gambit here.

Your implication was hard NOT to put together.

I don't see the issue with selling a soul to multiple people, as long as you know what you're doing.

 

[Mister Gregar]

Your implication was hard NOT to put together.

??? What implication? It was said that game chose this route as a lore explanation for why you can't go full skyrim with handing out your soul, and that there was no intention of changing that. I said that there's nothing wrong with the idea of handing out your soul, as long as the devs of a game acknowledge that it's happening (which Bethesda completely failed to do) make it risky in game (which would explain why no one else is doing it, and add a level to gameplay).

Pretty sure I said that flat out, I didn't imply anything. I didn't ask for any of that here (it's way outside the scope of porn game), I didn't say that it exists here (it clearly doesn't), and I didn't say it ever would (it's clearly stated above that it wouldn't). What did I imply? (That Bethesda is lazy? Wasn't my intention, but I'll gladly stand by it anyway. Plenty of extra salt lying around that I can throw in their direction.)

 

[Phoenix11]

All of this is well and good but how many accually believe that any of this will be implimented... Like Many different ways to sell your soul Different outcomes if you have or havnt sold your soul and to what "god/power" and to add it all in if you can have it stolen and if you can how to get it back. yeah this sounds interesting but looking down the road it seems like a gigantic clusterfuck waiting to happen. because what happens if you get a "bad end" or "loss" were you lose your soul and then have it already promised to something else? then you just die its a Game over because the game decided to DPS you down or something? Or will you be able to get your soul back like "rebuying" it or taking it back by force by being more powerful than what you sold it to. and if then what is the point of the cash up front thing. and if so why even bother selling it at all if you can just grind up and get better without selling it. Yeah maybe cool transforms but then whats the point of the soul selling if its Just for a transform which most people jump around in willy nilly anyway.