Non binary options?

[Kiba_The_Lucky]

Genuinely disappointing, is that, I was going through the tutorial of the game, kind of rushing through because I wanted to go to the preferred gender options. And I find out that it's limited to JUST male and female? It's messed up, really, even in a game to live out whatever sexual fantasy happens to be available, which is, a lot, I'm still fucking stuck with the "2 gender" bullshit. I was specifically making my character to be non-binary, they/them, because that's what I AM. This has to be an oversight, right?

Edit: And don't tell me its a code issue because literally the default windows notepad comes with a "find and replace" feature.

 

[ShySquare]

I was specifically making my character to be non-binary, they/them, because that's what I AM

Look, I understand your disappointment, and as a fellow nonbinary, this has also irked me for a long time. Although I don't play as myself, so I probably have more tolerance for this kinda stuff.

You're right, this is an oversight. Unfortunately, it's unlikely to be fixed, like, ever.

For starters, TiTS is built around a binary gender spectrum, based on masculinity/femininity.*
Because the game is OLD. At time of conception, binary trans people were barely a blip on the radar of the public consciousness, nevermind nonbinary people.

After years of development, you'd have to rewrite pretty much everything in the game to account for enby player characters.
That's not the kind of work that can be easily automated : many writers for the game include personalized variants based on the player's pronouns/feminity. You'd have to legit write new phrases, sentences, or even paragraphs.
It'd take years.

I doubt it'd be worth it for the developers to spend that much time to fix an oversight made years ago, for a very small minority of players.
(A few polls were made about what kind of PC the players used, and the vast majority played women, regardless of genitalia).
Especially when that time and effort could be used towards making and implementing more content into the game, fixing bugs, fixing the UI, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love being able to play a nb pc myself, and again, trust me, I get it, but at this point, unfortunately, nonbinary pronouns/gender would be too much work and time spent for too little reward for the game's developers.**


*Believe it or not, this is actually a vast improvement over its spiritual ascendant, Corruption of Champions. That game used your PC's combination of body parts to determine your PC's gender. Hint: It was not fun.
** It'd probably be easier and faster to implement a system for custom binary preferred pronouns, though. You'd have to ask a coder, but I don't see why we couldn't have a perser that takes she/her or he/him and changes them according to what the player wants.

Edited for spelling mistakes

 

[valk42]

i just toggle wildly

 

[Gedan]

Edit: And don't tell me its a code issue because literally the default windows notepad comes with a "find and replace" feature.

Not as easy as that, by a long stretch.

To break it down, we have a handful of parsers built around a single core function that handles gender representation - those would be easy. The problem is all the places where we end-runned around the global parsers and handrolled things with direct calls to handle countless instances of specific phrasing and structure. There are at least 2265 calls to this function that would need to be hand-reviewed to ensure they align with the selected representation, and many of them I honestly don't know what the answer would be. What's the correct replacement for son/daughter in this instance?

 

[DrunkZombie]

You could try using the custom replace functionality in the Language Filter section but keep in mind that replaces all instances of the word. So it would be replaced for not just the player but for npcs as well.

 

[Fenoxo]

Sorry, I built the game around the idea of pushing people to an excess of the "male" or "female" gender (sometimes a bit of both). It would be a lot of work to try to align things with your vision of what our game should be, and I have a LOT of other things I need to be doing for these games that I consider a higher priority. Denigrating my work and comparing the effort of making your changes to a "find and replace" from a word processor isn't just rude - it's fucking insulting. You basically slapped the entire devteam across the face for not having the precognition to support your needs ahead of time.

What's the correct replacement for son/daughter in this instance?

...perhaps... "Fuck trophy?"

 

[Shadowmetachu]

I mean... I'm a bit late to the convo, but I feel like a significant amount of the support is already here? The Language Filter has three spots, the third being for "indeterminant", and that I assume is used for individuals who either don't have sexual-dimorphism or are otherwise in the center of the feminine/masculine scale. Couldn't we then add an "Non-binary" button to the preferred gender menu that locks the player into using that? And probably another default to the Language Filter for the term Non-binary (turned off to start)? It's not perfect, but if the player used that, combined with sticking to either hermaphroditic / neuter genitals, or to femininity / masculinity opposite of their physical sex (so as to work off the trap, sissy, and cunt-boy terms, I'd think that would probably be able to cover a sizeable amount of circumstances. Also Cunt-boy doesn't appear to have a place in the Language Filter menu and probably should...

...actually, there's also the Androgynous perk, which permanently locks the description of your face. Couldn't that perk's functionality be used for Enby characters? Like, you gain that perk when your femininity scale is relatively neutral, and lose it if it's not? With a second perk being added in place of the original to lock it in. And that perk should honestly be able to be lost via Estrobloom (and ManUp) the way the Perma-cute perk is. Add to that a single additional option during character creation that allows the player to set their masculinity/femininity stat, perhaps right after you choose your upbringing, but before you choose your class, since it'd likely be a shift that happened during your life rather than before birth...? I think that'd do well.

It might not do everything people wanting to play a non-binary character would desire, such as fixing the aforementioned areas where the global parsers don't work, but I think imperfect representation and some options for it is better than not having much of it at all. Admittedly, I don't know much about the code or the writing structures used by the game, but in my limited understanding I feel like the above would do a lot without having to go to the sizable effort of changing writing and tons of code all over the place.

 

[XBoxMaster131]

I mean... I'm a bit late to the convo, but I feel like a significant amount of the support is already here? The Language Filter has three spots, the third being for "indeterminant", and that I assume is used for individuals who either don't have sexual-dimorphism or are otherwise in the center of the feminine/masculine scale. Couldn't we then add an "Non-binary" button to the preferred gender menu that locks the player into using that? And probably another default to the Language Filter for the term Non-binary (turned off to start)? It's not perfect, but if the player used that, combined with sticking to either hermaphroditic / neuter genitals, or to femininity / masculinity opposite of their physical sex (so as to work off the trap, sissy, and cunt-boy terms, I'd think that would probably be able to cover a sizeable amount of circumstances. Also Cunt-boy doesn't appear to have a place in the Language Filter menu and probably should...

...actually, there's also the Androgynous perk, which permanently locks the description of your face. Couldn't that perk's functionality be used for Enby characters? Like, you gain that perk when your femininity scale is relatively neutral, and lose it if it's not? With a second perk being added in place of the original to lock it in. And that perk should honestly be able to be lost via Estrobloom (and ManUp) the way the Perma-cute perk is. Add to that a single additional option during character creation that allows the player to set their masculinity/femininity stat, perhaps right after you choose your upbringing, but before you choose your class, since it'd likely be a shift that happened during your life rather than before birth...? I think that'd do well.

It might not do everything people wanting to play a non-binary character would desire, such as fixing the aforementioned areas where the global parsers don't work, but I think imperfect representation and some options for it is better than not having much of it at all. Admittedly, I don't know much about the code or the writing structures used by the game, but in my limited understanding I feel like the above would do a lot without having to go to the sizable effort of changing writing and tons of code all over the place.

There's already a sizeable enough backlog of shit to get done as is, they're not going to divert precious time and resources to solve a problem very few people have that be solved by just shrugging and biting a bullet.

 

[Shadowmetachu]

Yeah fair enough. I wonder if the code is at all open-source... If it's as relatively doable as I think it is I could probably write the few small changes I suggested myself, but I wouldn't want to bother the devs if that wouldn't be cool with them or if it'd take up much of their already precious work-time.

 

[XBoxMaster131]

Yeah fair enough. I wonder if the code is at all open-source... If it's as relatively doable as I think it is I could probably write the few small changes I suggested myself, but I wouldn't want to bother the devs if that wouldn't be cool with them or if it'd take up much of their already precious work-time.

It's not open source. Idk the exact reasons why, though, you'll have to ask around. Dont quote me on this, but I think it's cuz they don't want people making mods involving.... let's just say extremely niche content.

Which is fair.

 

[Navydivea]

First off your complaint is already misleading, it's based on the two sexes, not genders. Hence male/female not man/woman.

Second, you are almost exclusively mentioned by name in most cases, not in the third. So your pronouns are rarely ever on screen to begin with.

 

[Naby]

For starters, TiTS is built around a binary gender spectrum, based on masculinity/femininity.*
Because the game is OLD. At time of conception, binary trans people were barely a blip on the radar of the public consciousness, nevermind nonbinary people.

ShySquare definitely has a point about it being a different time. When I backed this game on OffBeater I don't think I was even aware non-binary was a thing. As a non-binary person now, I'd definitely appreciate some more support for non-binary options in the future. I also understand that's definitely more of an undertaking than just 'find and replace' for a game with 10 years of worth of coding and there's plenty of other priorities and backlogged items, but it doesn't hurt to wishlist things. I think even just a few more predefined tags in the language filter would be a step in the right direction or a "Custom" option in the 'Preferred Gender' menu that just has the player enter their 5 pronouns. Neither options solves for individual writers custom gender terms and pet names, but perhaps a half measure is better than shrug and bite the bullet.

Either way, it doesn't spoil my enjoyment of the game or my appreciation of the work Fenoxo and the rest of the dev team has put in. Keep up the good work!

Also, I think the correct replacement for son/daughter is child, but ngl Fuck Trophy goes hard.

 

[sulesulena]

I'm sorry to hear about your frustration. It sounds like the game's limitation on gender options is disappointing and doesn't reflect the diversity of identities that people have. It's important for games to be inclusive and representative of all players. Unfortunately, oversights like this can occur in game development, but it's crucial for developers to listen to feedback from players like you and work towards making their games more inclusive in the future. You might consider reaching out to the game developers to share your feedback and advocate for more inclusive gender options in their games.

 

[Animefan666]

I'm sorry to hear about your frustration. It sounds like the game's limitation on gender options is disappointing and doesn't reflect the diversity of identities that people have. It's important for games to be inclusive and representative of all players. Unfortunately, oversights like this can occur in game development, but it's crucial for developers to listen to feedback from players like you and work towards making their games more inclusive in the future. You might consider reaching out to the game developers to share your feedback and advocate for more inclusive gender options in their games.

Necron activity detected.

 

[Savin]

It's even funnier when the lead dev actually already responded in the thread.