Kiyoko vs Inari Kinu x Hitoshi

[TheShepard256]

A conversation that went on recently in the Gripes thread got me thinking. Essentially, Kiyoko disapproves of Young Inari Kinu being in a relationship with Hitoshi because he's not one of the higher-ups in kitsune society, and her marrying him wouldn't be good from the perspective of marriages Kiyoko subscribes to (i.e. it's a political thing). My thought is, isn't that hypocritical considering Kiyoko herself is quite willing to marry the Champion, who is an outsider and thus an even worse choice for marriage than Hitoshi?

 

[The Observer]

That presupposition is wrong. Technically, there's nothing wrong with Hitoshi's lineage; he's her retainer's descendant.

Kiyoko dislikes him because from her point of view, he's a lazy, unambitious, socially stunted slob with a narrow view of the world who is wasting both his and Kinu's talents on mundane pursuits.

Hitoshi wearing a samue is meaningful, in a sense -- that style of work clothing originated with Zen monks for doing simple, mind-emptying tasks.

 

[Tristan Black]

There have been long discussions on how kitsune society as a whole is a touch hypocritical, simply because it has a lot of rules and more than a few contradict each other.

So yeah, Kiyoko's objections are a bit hypocritical, but normal enough for the way her society thinks. You're the one who'd have to help her see past such limitations.

Or at least keep her occupied enough with fresh kits and the process of making them to render the point moot.

 

[Evil]

As annoying as Nakano might be, he does have drive and ambition, which can be seen as a boon in the colonies. And the danger from that can be tempered by Kinu.

Hitoshi is quite willing to let the world go by and tend to his crops. Never changing, never wanting more or to be more.

You can kinda see why a mother might not want her daughter ending up with that kind of guy.

As for saying its hypocritical of Kiyoko after marrying the Champion and having a nominally worse spouse for them being an outsider, whatever misgivings any kitsune might have about the Champion, they helped bring Kiyoko back to the physical plane and has Keros' blessing. Even if the Champion is an outsider, Keros has taken a shine to them, which certainly lifts them up in the collective Kitsune expectations.

 

[TheShepard256]

That presupposition is wrong. Technically, there's nothing wrong with Hitoshi's lineage; he's her retainer's descendant.

Kiyoko dislikes him because from her point of view, he's a lazy, unambitious, socially stunted slob with a narrow view of the world who is wasting both his and Kinu's talents on mundane pursuits.

Hitoshi wearing a samue is meaningful, in a sense -- that style of work clothing originated with Zen monks for doing simple, mind-emptying tasks.

As annoying as Nakano might be, he does have drive and ambition, which can be seen as a boon in the colonies. And the danger from that can be tempered by Kinu.

Hitoshi is quite willing to let the world go by and tend to his crops. Never changing, never wanting more or to be more.

You can kinda see why a mother might not want her daughter ending up with that kind of guy.

Ah. My mistake, then.

As for saying its hypocritical of Kiyoko after marrying the Champion and having a nominally worse spouse for them being an outsider, whatever misgivings any kitsune might have about the Champion, they helped bring Kiyoko back to the physical plane and has Keros' blessing. Even if the Champion is an outsider, Keros has taken a shine to them, which certainly lifts them up in the collective Kitsune expectations.

While I thought that might be the case, The Observer previously said that the Champion will always be considered an outsider no matter what, so I didn't think it would be enough to fully justify having no problems with them marrying Kiyoko.

 

[Evil]

The Champion is always going to be an outsider. They might be married to Kiyoko and they might be the sire of Kinu, but the Champion will always be an outsider. They just happen to be the den's favourite outsider.