Is it wrong that I...Kind of stan the Seven?

[CourtOfTheGrayWaves]

Mostly just Lumia, but ya get the gist. And yes, I'm aware of the Devilman '72 secret they have.

It's mostly because of my exposure to SkullGirls and its resident Trinity. Because, as far as I know, none of Lumia's Valkyries triggered a family annihilation because two of their number got merked. Hell, they're also not trying to destroy the world because two of their own got merked.

 

[valkyr42]

The Seven did a lot of things wrong but ultimately seem to be doing their flawed best to inhabit the roles they've been given, imo.

 

[Animefan666]

The Seven are kind of a gray area to me when you consider the whole Convacation of Mirrors thing, especially when it comes to Nareva.

 

[anona]

Given their origins and their circumstances I think they're doing fine, at least the best that they can. I will say the Convocation of Mirrors thing was one of my favorite plot points and really got me interested in the game lore

 

[Ultra Chad]

The biggest flaw of the seven is their laziness. They really should've did something about all the portals leading to other worlds.

 

[Dude_with_bad_english]

Whatever feel right about them for you is right. They really do make something good, well some of them sure are trying. But they could definitely do a lot more if they were sometimes more competent, you know, like take seriously the ongoing demonic invasion threatening to overwhelm the world, or something like that.

I'm not a big fan of them. So I hope Kas gives those lazy asses a some good old kicking! By da horns! Figuratively speaking, of course.

 

[Greyfox643]

The biggest flaw of the seven is their laziness. They really should've did something about all the portals leading to other worlds.

I... don't think they can.

They seem to only be able to REACT to them (see Lumia, with Winter City).

Not to mention, the main one, the Big One, the One that "Started It All"... still is just there in Estallore after all this time. Given that it's OG source of Wraiths and Corruption, I would think they would've ATTEMPTED to close it at the very least.

 

[GOI]

I mean they kind of are taking it the whole demonic thing seriously that is why the cursades are getting ready but well the planned time for the game is not really enough time to get ready the armys ready and to the marches doesn’t help the biggest army closest to it the marches is kind of busy with anouther world ending threat even bigger than the demons since really the demons are not focused threat even killing Kas would not do anything about the actual threat of demons

 

[Necros]

Still don't trust them. The whole eating enough souls to get conscience, seems bit too convenient. Predators just found better way to farm their food!

 

[Knight-Captain Alexandr]

The Seven are like someone building a basic shelter to shield you from the rain. A nice gesture, certainly welcome during a storm, but it'd probably be preferable if they didn't burn down everyone's houses in the first place.

Spoiler: Mirror Convergence Spoilers

The fact that the Seven are just the most prolific cannibals of their soul-eating kind which let them eat so much magic and soul-stuff that they grew to take on emotions and higher thinking doesn't excuse the fact that they are, individually, probably responsible for wiping out the lion's share of Savarra's civilization by eating tens of thousands of people apiece, as well as the other Wraiths who had eaten who-knows how many in the interrim. The fact that they're trying to be responsible now is nice, and I agree the world is better with them than without them, but there wouldn't be any need to rely on them if they hadn't messed everything up in the first place.
Personally I don't mind them being so smug about the fact they get to play at divinity, I just wish there were more options to present yourself as hostile towards them. It's outright comical that the interaction with Lumia basically amounts to you approaching her throne, hat in hand, basically saying "I'm real sorry to trouble you miss, but um, if you don't mind, might I trouble you to speak a little about the fact that you're an omnivorous vampyric entity from beyond the colour of space?" before going right back to the demure and respectful Champion routine. She even outright says she has to 'go back to pretending to be a Goddess now.'

 

[Animefan666]

Spoiler

This is why it's a grey area for me. Picking a deity as their form to suck up all that unearned worship was taking the easy way out, imo. I would've liked it if they picked a more generic form and started from the ground up.

 

[SomeNobody]

There should be an endgame option where-

Spoiler

something is done that renders the world/reality uninhabitable by the outerworldly entities that are the Wraiths but has no effect on regular creatures, thus preventing another incursion of their kind from ever breaching the veil and threatening everyone. The Seven would of course be destroyed as a natural outcome of this change.
You could well have it be one of the Seven who confides the means to do so to the player and/or provides aid in carrying it out, specifically out of a sense of love that has grown within them for the world and its people mixed with guilt over their own past actions.

 

[valkyr42]

A form of noble self-sacrifice. I like it.

 

[Charity]

I remember Sav saying that there will be no way to one up them, cuz "CoC 2 isn't a power fantasy".


Plus it's seems that all that portals things are almost Core for CoC multiverse. Mareth being Hub World and all, for example (if it wasn't retconned).

 

[Savin]

I don't think "hub" is really the right term for it. That implies you use it as a terminal to get to other places. Mareth's more of a black hole or an interdimensional disposal vat; things get dragged in from all over and can't escape (hence Serena's portal research being so valuable). That's what happened to the city that'd become the Demon spawn point, and a bunch of other characters like Isabela or Dominika.

I don't believe the reason for Mareth being the way it is (or really much about dimensional mechanics) were ever really touched on in CoC1, nor do I have any particular interest in touching on it in depth in CoC2, but the existence of portals is definitely just a thing every world connected to the meta-setting has to deal with. Doing something to lock them down would however be an interesting plot point, for sure -- Kas only has a copy of Serena's portal research, and there's clearly worse things than Lethice's surviving goons out there, like the Burning Legion or the ATF.

 

[Charity]

Well Wraths already look like way worse then Lethice goons. 'Cuz they wouldn't stop invasion as she did in CoC.

But if most of her left goons are more like Kas (can focus on bigger tasks then having sex 25/8), when this is a problem.

 

[TalRasha]

I think that the whole fight of the Seven against the Wraiths and Kasyrra's invasion is just a fight between competitors for a feeder. There are no "good" and "bad" here, there is nothing personal here at all, just business. Of course, the Seven has the pole position, but nothing has been decided definitively yet. The best strategist will win, and everything is bad with strategy on all sides of this case: the Seven are more focused on staying in their seats, Kas - is the lonely voice of reason among the crowd of not the most reasonable dumb fucked subordinates, focused only on one thing "fuck and being fucked", Wraiths - lumps of power driven only by hunger.

 

[Charity]

I think that the whole fight of the Seven against the Wraiths and Kasyrra's invasion is just a fight between competitors for a feeder. There are no "good" and "bad" here, there is nothing personal here at all, just business. Of course, the Seven has the pole position, but nothing has been decided definitively yet. The best strategist will win, and everything is bad with strategy on all sides of this case: the Seven are more focused on staying in their seats, Kas - is the lonely voice of reason among the crowd of not the most reasonable dumb fucked subordinates, focused only on one thing "fuck and being fucked", Wraiths - lumps of power driven only by hunger.

That "fuck and being fucked" is literaly only thing that save Mareth.
Thanks to Kass dialogs - demons are basically litchs. They do have magic way more powerful that others, and can be pretty smart and make advanced tech. Even Kass say that it sometimes hard to focus on anything but fucking.

And if demons need to slowly (or not, depend on willpowert of target) fuck your soul out of your body, Wraith seem to be able to forcefully yoink it. And they become more smart as they feed, as Dark Knights are titul of people who follow them, and by all we know then invasion just start they just eat without thinking.

 

[TalRasha]

That "fuck and being fucked" is literaly only thing that save Mareth.

And thats the whole point! It's all not about power of the Seven nor they strategical genius! Not even the result of the Champ's actions! It's not the Seven that wins, it's the demons that lose!

They do have magic way more powerful that others, and can be pretty smart and make advanced tech. Even Kass say that it sometimes hard to focus on anything but fucking.

And how many genius can be found in the crowd of dumb fuckers? Ok, Viv - one (or not, depending on the player's choice), but more?

 

[Charity]

And how many genius can be found in the crowd of dumb fuckers? Ok, Viv - one (or not, depending on the player's choice), but more?

In CoC 2? Here I agree, there aren't much.

But in CoC? Ratkin Elders, creators of factories, ones who corrupt goblins, minos and start to affect harpys and, of course, Akbal.
Thing is - by Kass words - they ALL run than champ was close. Some might hide in Mareth, some ran in other world. Kass even know something about research of forcefully opening portals, because there was that demoness who found it, and tech to create artificial portals.

Maybe there will be some smart demon down the line in CoC 2 aside Kass.

 

[TalRasha]

In CoC 2? Here I agree, there aren't much.

But in CoC?

Considering that we are talking about rivalry between the Seven and Kas…
No, i could agree about CoC. Harsh conditions force you to develop yourself and develop technologies to a higher level, and according to Savin, Mareth was one big harsh condition on the verge of its death. Compared to Mareth, Savarra seems like a resort, no reasons to…evolve into something bigger than walking-talking dick/pussy life support system. Same for the other side: gods will take care of it, no reasons to do something. Oh, they choose a Champion? That's great, even fewer reasons to do something, Champ will carry us to the victory! Would the minos even scratch they butts if demons hadn't besieged Khor'minos? Would the boreal elves take their heads out of their asses if Kas hadn't come to their queen? Those who actually fight against the invasion from the start - loners who have suffered from it personally.
How does the Seven plan to win this? By betting on one person? And practically without protecting this bet? Well…gl.

 

[Charity]

Considering that we are talking about rivalry between the Seven and Kas…
No, i could agree about CoC. Harsh conditions force you to develop yourself and develop technologies to a higher level, and according to Savin, Mareth was one big harsh condition on the verge of its death. Compared to Mareth, Savarra seems like a resort, no reasons to…evolve into something bigger than walking-talking dick/pussy life support system. Same for the other side: gods will take care of it, no reasons to do something. Oh, they choose a Champion? That's great, even fewer reasons to do something, Champ will carry us to the victory! Would the minos even scratch they butts if demons hadn't besieged Khor'minos? Would the boreal elves take their heads out of their asses if Kas hadn't come to their queen? Those who actually fight against the invasion from the start - loners who have suffered from it personally.
How does the Seven plan to win this? By betting on one person? And practically without protecting this bet? Well…gl.

Remember that star wars reference of a quest. There 2 paladins coming afterwards. They knew that "there is a demonic invasion in Frost Marches" they come to check and more then a little shocked about scale of it. BUT forces from mainland will come in 2 mounts or something?


Seven already seems to have some consule about it and one of the points - or special soul. But as we see, Old Balhar need time to march, Lumina almost offed herself bc of her stupid decision with Godeater(who seem to be much more intelligent then one in Winter City).
They basicly repeat mistake of Mareth gods. They HIGHLY underestimated threat. We don't know how powerful real Gods are in CoC verse, but demon already won fight with them. Even direct confrontation.

Fact that Savarrah underdeveloped (thanks to a coincidence in the loss of MOST of tech that Belhar have and Nereva agency in preventing reserch in that matter) they gonna regret it. And in some bad end they are (like one there Kass ascend. But don't like it).

Incopetent gods, are so cliche that it almost hurt me.
"About gods take care" - they don't. Most talkative of them is Keros. Others don't interfere. Lumina saw some rando Wraith more important then lose of almost all of pale elf. Seems EXTREAMLY hypocritical, considering how she comment schism (also didn't give a shit about that they do to Glacial Rift). She care, she sorry, but didn't do dick for them.

P.S. if they so powerful as they try to look - why de fuk she didn't smite Kass in Winter City then she was given the chance. Drop stupid threat - and thats it.

 

[TalRasha]

P.S. if they so powerful as they try to look - why de fuk she didn't smite Kass in Winter City then she was given the chance. Drop stupid threat - and thats it.

Mhm, likewise Mallach didn't smite her at his(!) temple. The reason for the destruction of one of your temples and the abduction of the souls of your followers stands right in front of you and throws these souls in your face. What are you going to do? Sluggishly spit on it and leave with your tail between your legs. Oh yeah, the mighty god it is.

They basicly repeat mistake of Mareth gods. They HIGHLY underestimated threat. We don't know how powerful real Gods are in CoC verse, but demon already won fight with them. Even direct confrontation.

It takes an army for the direct confrontation, but something tells me that demons will build it. They could use the tactics of pinpoint strikes, destroying temples, cutting trade routes, conducting active propaganda among the population and win this noncense in no time, but...no. It requires a little more intelligence than they have.

 

[SomeNobody]

The 'gods' of CoC2 were a mistake and a massive blight on the integrity of the plot with how ridiculously bullshit they are.

It gets worse when you contrast them to the Gods of the previous game in the series and how they were handled with regards to the setting in comparison.
Making it increasingly ridiculous/distasteful is it being planned to have one of the CoC1 Gods brought back in 2... just to be a loser antagonist for the Kitsune to beat up (who was originally even going to get his powers absorbed by Kiyoko, though thankfully I think that idea at least has been dropped).

 

[Charity]

Making it increasingly ridiculous/distasteful is it being planned to have one of the CoC1 Gods brought back in 2... just to be a loser antagonist for the Kitsune to beat up (who was originally even going to get his powers absorbed by Kiyoko, though thankfully I think that idea at least has been dropped).

There is more
Remember text then u got amber orb? And Cait comments? THATS there fork was. If u don't take it - Taoth gonna make a deal with u to detrhone Keros, 'cuz from his point he and kitsunes demons.
While if u do pick up, then while Kinu will fight her war with his cult and Especialy - Raphael, we could challenge still weakened Taoth and Keros would absorb him. Preeety creapy huh? There is more.

By that doc pc and kiyoko could trick him in Keros dream thought orb and by some shenanigans, she would end up absorbing him and become demi-god.
Keros then betate u for not letting him do it, but then think that being only one from seven who have demigod side is still good. So by docs Keros is two-fased power hungry gonk.
Sorry for typos using phone.

 

[Savin]

Harsh conditions force you to develop yourself and develop technologies to a higher level, and according to Savin, Mareth was one big harsh condition on the verge of its death.

Worth noting that most of the tech in Mareth came through portals. Intelligent life only existed in Mareth natively for a couple hundred years; the natives were basically stone-agers except for divine intervention and scrounging garbage that tipped into the plane. There's literal TVs in there.

 

[TalRasha]

Worth noting that most of the tech in Mareth came through portals. Intelligent life only existed in Mareth natively for a couple hundred years; the natives were basically stone-agers except for divine intervention and scrounging garbage that tipped into the plane. There's literal TVs in there.

Well, then demonkind are doomed to be a twisted breeders and nothing more.

 

[Necros]

Well, then demonkind are doomed to be a twisted breeders and nothing more.

Given they still had the intellect to understand and fix the garbage or at least get it working.