In your opinion what is the best outcome for kinu/best version of herself?
- Thread starter Violyn
- Start date
I like the idea of a happy housewife with a hard-working farmer, who eventually manages to reconcile with her mother and is quite happy settling in and raising a whole new colony's worth of kids.
But that's me, and half wishful thinking.
But that's me, and half wishful thinking.
Maybe it's just me, but I think the elegant slut route is kinda snotty. Maybe on an alt save where I'm out to corrupt all.
Young Inari, and if Kiyoko doesn't get her shit together and make an effort to be more understanding post-orb, I have a hot heaping helping of DIVORCE for her
(friendship over with fox wife, now GOOD PARENTING my best friend)
This might seem harsh but from reading the stories, Kiyoko herself is soul-crushingly sharp with Kinu, borderline abusive.
(friendship over with fox wife, now GOOD PARENTING my best friend)
This might seem harsh but from reading the stories, Kiyoko herself is soul-crushingly sharp with Kinu, borderline abusive.
Same here man, but sadly Observer is making us choose between harmonious household with Kinu losing her individuality or Kinu being true to herself at the cost of her relationship with her mother (I asked once). T_T
I for one though, second a route for them reconciling (I’m not giving up on that yet, lol). i’m sure Kiyoko wants things to be better but has a hard time understanding that Young Inari’s chosen path is no less valid than being a Kitsune Hime. And Asian parenting is a double-edged sword in this respect. Parents want what’s best for their kids and when kids comply with with parents think is best, things are great. But if they do something the parents think is harmful or shameful (regardless of whether for not it objectively is), that’s where feathers get ruffled. And that’s where things get hard and compromises have to be made, communication, etc.
I only hope we’ll have that choice down the road with Young Inari Kinu to mediate between her and Kiyoko because they’re both family and while Kiyoko is not a bad person, it will taint my image of her if she’s just going to constantly be mean to Young Inari Kinu. I hope it’s at least not the case though and we have asides from Kiyoko indicating her difficulty understanding Kinu. That’s the struggle of young Asians with Western upbringings with their traditionalist parents, tbh. How do we bridge that gap?
Well as Kinu's father, along with Kiyoko's other children, I'm for locking the two of them in a room to scream it out until they work things out.
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It's so much more than that.When presented, the independence dimension is always couched as a choice between being understanding that accepting help from other people when one needs it is okay, and accepting that other people may be right from time to time as opposed to being able to be self-reliant and achieving one's opinions at the expense of others. She'll be able to defend her opinions and have the resourcefulness to get things done on her own as a young inari, but be incredibly lonely and intolerant of other peoples' differing views because that wells from the very same self-confidence that allows her to argue with her mother and get away with it. Being wilful isn't all sunshine and roses, and that's the point -- that there is no truly good answer to the question, that you have to make meaningful choices. The only people who actually interact with young inari Kinu on anything approaching a regular basis are her family, in-laws included, and she's not blameless in landing herself in a situation where the crops of the earth and beasts of the field are her friends. Ironically, being inflexible in changing her strong-willed opinions is most likely to find herself in her mother's shoes years down the line.
That’s a very interesting approach. And explains why certain Young Inari choices involve being pretty darn harsh (like the Food Thief one. OUCH!).
Speaking of, that does explain why the Inari option of Food Thief also empathizes Kinu wanting to imitate her mother, while Hime option has her basically cringing at the thought of becoming her mother already.
Still, overall Kitsune Hime route does come off a bit snotty as someone else mentioned, so I doubt I’d be able to land that without having to break rp for it.
But it’s good to know there are indeed pros and cons to both routes besides whether or not Kinu would get along with her mom, and gives plenty of food for thought on which one is better for Kinu.
Every parent worth the title hits that point eventually.
It helps that the psyche is ever-evolving, though. I imagine Kinu might well find herself the same fox in middle age, regardless of previous life choices. The Young Inari would open up as her will was tempered by experience, and the Kitsune Hime would mature as responsibility found her.
No guarantees, and the minute details would differ, but we all find ourselves wanting to kick the ass of our younger versions eventually. It's just part of growing up.
It helps that the psyche is ever-evolving, though. I imagine Kinu might well find herself the same fox in middle age, regardless of previous life choices. The Young Inari would open up as her will was tempered by experience, and the Kitsune Hime would mature as responsibility found her.
No guarantees, and the minute details would differ, but we all find ourselves wanting to kick the ass of our younger versions eventually. It's just part of growing up.
Follow others <-> Respect others' opinions <-> Hold your opinions <-> Advocate your opinions
Yielding <-> Wilful
Cooperative and willing to work with others <-> Self-reliant and doesn't bother others with problems
Emphatic and flexible <-> Intolerant and resolute
Thanks for all additional info here and on the wiki page (just saw the Sociability row there). This really helps make Kitsune Hime look less like a pratty Kiyoko and more like a mature but very positive Kinu.
I might still hold off on making a decision until we have about as much supplementary info about Kitsune Hime (and Nakano, though he seems cool from what little we got in the Inari short story), since I still have plenty of wiggle room to tip Kinu to either way (and honestly, various Inari options still fit with building to Kitsune Hime).
Oh yeah, I’m curious, but does Kitsune Hime completely abandon her childhood love of agriculture and outdoor romps or is it more like she’s made them hobbies that she may or may not do when her mom’s not looking? (I’ve just had that headcanon for a while but am not sure if that’s the case). If she’s more empathetic and open to understanding people, then it seems like she’ll literally love every person she meets (unless they give her a reason to dislike them).
I think it’d be adorable if she still somehow winds up friends with Hitoshi even if she doesn’t take him as a consort.
Read the Hakagure; I referred to it a lot to try and understand the kind of mindset that would produce plenty of practical advice for a stoic daily life combined with the insane deathseeking madness so classic of Japan's warrior class.
She expresses her love of nature in other ways befitting someone of her station -- bonsai, flower arrangement, helping Nakano with his poetry and scroll paintings.
So, taking into account the new info kindly presented by TheObserver as well as going over the choices of each route, I’ve come to the conclusion that ultimately Kinu would be true to herself and find happiness in her own way no matter how she turns out. I noticed that exactly half the events are things we as the PC influence and the other half is what we playing as Kinu decide to do (i.e. while we may be playing as her, in-universe these are the choices Kinu makes herself without us being present).
Both Kitsune Hime and Young Inari choices have an even spread of kind and cruel options, with some even fitting well with the other’s narrative (which in turn makes the choices more organic). And honestly, both Kitsune Hime and Young Inari are responsible types if we go off the choices (and frankly Hime wouldn’t be an “Administrative Genius” if she weren’t, haha).
I think ultimately, the decision on which Kinu is the final version would be based on what aspect of her do we like best, since child Kinu has an even mix of both natures.
For me right now, I feel like Kinu would ultimately be happier in the near future as a Kitsune Hime because she went to the effort of seeing things from her mother’s point of view and is able to learn to communicate their differences and come to a compromise that would make them both happy. She’d also likely be a talented diplomat with her ability to empathize and communicate, which would make her an excellent leader who can shape the world for the better. Most importantly though, because she sees the validity of many viewpoints, she’d always have friends with her, possibly even from all walks of life with how charismatic a leader she’d be.
Not to completely dismiss Young Inari though. Happiness to her is more in nature and a few people close to her. She’s much more black and white in thinking, which results in her failing to understand and communicate with her mother, creating a further wedge between them. She also wouldn’t be able to get along with many folks with her stubbornness to her own opinions, but that wouldn’t really matter if she keeps herself secluded to the good earth and the few she gets along with completely. She prefers a simple life focused on family and that’s okay. As Observer said, it’s just a much lonelier life for her because she simply cannot connect with people. A pain that would likely be salved when she meets with Hitoshi and starts a family with him.
Ultimately though, I agree with Tristan that eventually Kinu will be the same fox as she was before when she gets to a certain point in life. So the choice is really up to us and how we want to play Kinu (and instruct her as her father).
Hmm, now I’m wondering if it’s coincidence Kinu has emphasis placed on how she’s like PC in many ways and we also get to play as her sometimes.
Edit: I forgot to also mention that I noticed that Kinu’s personally choices (that we control but are still technically hers regardless) have a higher tendency to weigh more than parenting choices we make as the PC, so both routes are primarily the result of Kinu’s decisions. So, they’re legitimately just AU versions of each other who made different critical choices in their lives and such.
They’ll both find happiness one way or another, so have fun, y’all.
Both Kitsune Hime and Young Inari choices have an even spread of kind and cruel options, with some even fitting well with the other’s narrative (which in turn makes the choices more organic). And honestly, both Kitsune Hime and Young Inari are responsible types if we go off the choices (and frankly Hime wouldn’t be an “Administrative Genius” if she weren’t, haha).
I think ultimately, the decision on which Kinu is the final version would be based on what aspect of her do we like best, since child Kinu has an even mix of both natures.
For me right now, I feel like Kinu would ultimately be happier in the near future as a Kitsune Hime because she went to the effort of seeing things from her mother’s point of view and is able to learn to communicate their differences and come to a compromise that would make them both happy. She’d also likely be a talented diplomat with her ability to empathize and communicate, which would make her an excellent leader who can shape the world for the better. Most importantly though, because she sees the validity of many viewpoints, she’d always have friends with her, possibly even from all walks of life with how charismatic a leader she’d be.
Not to completely dismiss Young Inari though. Happiness to her is more in nature and a few people close to her. She’s much more black and white in thinking, which results in her failing to understand and communicate with her mother, creating a further wedge between them. She also wouldn’t be able to get along with many folks with her stubbornness to her own opinions, but that wouldn’t really matter if she keeps herself secluded to the good earth and the few she gets along with completely. She prefers a simple life focused on family and that’s okay. As Observer said, it’s just a much lonelier life for her because she simply cannot connect with people. A pain that would likely be salved when she meets with Hitoshi and starts a family with him.
Ultimately though, I agree with Tristan that eventually Kinu will be the same fox as she was before when she gets to a certain point in life. So the choice is really up to us and how we want to play Kinu (and instruct her as her father).
Hmm, now I’m wondering if it’s coincidence Kinu has emphasis placed on how she’s like PC in many ways and we also get to play as her sometimes.
Edit: I forgot to also mention that I noticed that Kinu’s personally choices (that we control but are still technically hers regardless) have a higher tendency to weigh more than parenting choices we make as the PC, so both routes are primarily the result of Kinu’s decisions. So, they’re legitimately just AU versions of each other who made different critical choices in their lives and such.
They’ll both find happiness one way or another, so have fun, y’all.
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Not liking Kiyoko at all is my main reason for losing interest in the content altogether. Watching Kinu grow up is fun and has dynamism to it but it assumes that you like Kiyoko enough to have a thousand kids with her. If only interactions with her had half as much variation! I'd be all for turning a trick on the trickster and selling her out to other foxy forces down the road or a branch where you're strictly quid pro quo with her but I doubt anything like that will come about.
I like Kiyoko, but I can agree on maybe a little more content pre-having kids. I prefer knowing someone better before banging, after all, and someone going into this blind who may not be into pregnancy or even want to have kids (since being sterile means squat when banging Kiyoko) may not appreciate that. And then of course it’d be nice to have at least a friendship route for people who don’t want to have kids with Kiyoko or unwilling to have a dick. I think maybe just straight up taking her to Floof Haus when it’s implemented could work.
I’m fine with things as is now because I love Kinu and I love the parenting simulator we get with her (and lots of cute wholesome family moments with both Kinu and Kiyoko, though it’s definitely more happy if you’re going Kitsune Hime). Kiyoko is very much East Asian nobility and values, which may not appeal to everyone so I can understand why some people may not like her.
I'd want "different" rather than "more". The whole arrangement is very sketchy and she's clearly trying to sugarcoat it, downplay and distract from what she's really asking for. The way the content plays out there's not even that usual mercenary attitude ("what are you willing to promise me to get this from me?"), you're either gung-ho about it, of course you love the ara ara types no matter how snobby or stuck-up or controlling they might be, why would I ever demand anything from or suspect you of anything darling, or you just drop the content altogether.
That on-rails experience that relied on you liking the character enough to put up with quite a lot of objectionable behavior is why Marble and Amily from the original are so divisive.
That on-rails experience that relied on you liking the character enough to put up with quite a lot of objectionable behavior is why Marble and Amily from the original are so divisive.
I’m not sure what you mean by different that isn’t “more”? I thought Kiyoko was straight forward enough on what she needed, so all that I feel really needs adding is what happens if you don’t want to go with it. Either by hanging out more with Kiyoko or said “friendship route” that I mentioned in my previous post (i.e. you have a strictly platonic relationship with her and get her out by taking her straight to Keros, no strings attached or kids made).
Honestly, I can’t see any way to get Kinu content without getting with Kiyoko so if you want to access that without having to instantly be in love with Kiyoko, the only solution that comes to mind is adding content that involves getting to know her better first. Kinda similar to the route females and herms have to do to have a relationship with Amily in CoC.
Because I highly doubt Observer will straight up change the intro or whatever, and most of us are fine with it as is.
It won't work that way because it would simply introduce too many game states for far too many NPCs and more than double my workload.
I very clearly wrote on the wiki that for you to get her mother out, Kinu must exist.
Makes sense; I forgot that little detail, oops. This is what happens when you are out of the game for months.
Anyways, fortunately, I think the majority of folks are fine with Kiyoko as is. And honestly, the set up of things being initially pragmatic before being an actual fairy tale love deal is something that’s easy enough to fill in the blanks on. I personally like to imagine there’s more going on than is feasible to write and code for.
I have resigned myself to Kitsune Hime because Young Inari no longer makes much sense at this point with the choices I’ve taken. I’m just gonna hope we get Kitsune Hime content to complement the Young Inari ones that seem to be favored so far.
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What you seem to be expressing interest in is complementary content, more build-up to what's already there. I and myself would only care to approach the content for curiosity at Kinu if there was something that could tenably be called a "corrupt route", an alternate path through the content where the champion tricks the trickster by exploiting her situation to coerce servitude/favors/whathaveyou in exchange for help in freeing her. Bringing up Amily's content actually reminded me that hers worked that way; whether the tone was romantic or mercenary depended on a basic affection system. An icy relationship where her attempts at warming the champion up to her fail and neither trusts the other is an interesting alternate backdrop for the Kinu content that tosses an additional complication into the question of whether she likes or approves of her mother.
This is waifu writing, though, even if the instant and unquestioned attachment reads either forced or seduced to a cynical eye it's not some great misstep to approach writing content like this assuming that those who care to read it like the character. The wider kitsune content is more likely to have opportunities to ruffle the fuzz and get the best of snooty nobles like Kiyoko if the orc material is anything to go by.
HELLO NECRO.
Lookat the date of the last comment before you post gdi.
Kinu Hime is the way to go. She's good with people, mature, has a great relationship with her parents and family, empathetic, clever, detail oriented and responsible. She's basically what I'd consider a perfect daughter.
While I haven't played Kinu Inari, from what I can tell she seems like the "my way or highway" type of person. Also, why she's so THICC in comparison to her Hime version?
While I haven't played Kinu Inari, from what I can tell she seems like the "my way or highway" type of person. Also, why she's so THICC in comparison to her Hime version?
Tbh I think there should be an option to bring a party member to introduce Kiyoko to (Quinn would be a good choice in my opinion)
Or maybe an NPC you can find at the Kitsune Den or the Frost Hound who would be more than happy to help out (Like, maybe a Kitsune who is big on research and studying history, as well as magic items or stuff related to Keros, that would give the NPC a reason to go into the amulet, hear Kiyoko’s request, and once the two get aquatinted more they end up liking each other a lot and decide to be in a relationship even after Kinu is born. The player character could be the Honorary aunt or uncle to their hoard of kids or something like that, therefore Kinu can still be largely influenced by the player since Kinu would go to them a lot for advice since while her parents are there a lot, the NPC is more of a storyteller and isn’t too great at giving advice [I am literally making this up on the spot so maybe this isn’t a good option, but it’s still an idea])
Alternatively, the player could have a friendship route, where the same stuff happens, it’s just that the player character has the option to say that they want to help, but they don’t know if they want a relationship beyond friendship with Kiyoko. In that route, the player will be guaranteed to have kids with Kiyoko until they get her out of the amulet, and they won’t be in a relationship with her unless they explicitly say they want to be in one.
Because, to be honest, the Amulet quest, especially after Kiyoko conceives, is a bit uncomfortable for me.
I don’t want my character to have a Dong, but if I have to give my character one temporarily then I can just push those feelings away and that’ll be that.
However, I don’t want my character in a romantically intimate relationship with Kiyoko or leave her in the Amulet. (and I also want to meet Kinu)
So right now, no matter what I choose, I’m either
1. Choosing to keep Kiyoko in a prison
Or
2. Knocking her up so she can leave, but getting into a romantic relationship that makes me feel like the player character is deceiving Kiyoko out of pity (Which makes me feel highly uncomfortable)
Or maybe an NPC you can find at the Kitsune Den or the Frost Hound who would be more than happy to help out (Like, maybe a Kitsune who is big on research and studying history, as well as magic items or stuff related to Keros, that would give the NPC a reason to go into the amulet, hear Kiyoko’s request, and once the two get aquatinted more they end up liking each other a lot and decide to be in a relationship even after Kinu is born. The player character could be the Honorary aunt or uncle to their hoard of kids or something like that, therefore Kinu can still be largely influenced by the player since Kinu would go to them a lot for advice since while her parents are there a lot, the NPC is more of a storyteller and isn’t too great at giving advice [I am literally making this up on the spot so maybe this isn’t a good option, but it’s still an idea])
Alternatively, the player could have a friendship route, where the same stuff happens, it’s just that the player character has the option to say that they want to help, but they don’t know if they want a relationship beyond friendship with Kiyoko. In that route, the player will be guaranteed to have kids with Kiyoko until they get her out of the amulet, and they won’t be in a relationship with her unless they explicitly say they want to be in one.
Because, to be honest, the Amulet quest, especially after Kiyoko conceives, is a bit uncomfortable for me.
I don’t want my character to have a Dong, but if I have to give my character one temporarily then I can just push those feelings away and that’ll be that.
However, I don’t want my character in a romantically intimate relationship with Kiyoko or leave her in the Amulet. (and I also want to meet Kinu)
So right now, no matter what I choose, I’m either
1. Choosing to keep Kiyoko in a prison
Or
2. Knocking her up so she can leave, but getting into a romantic relationship that makes me feel like the player character is deceiving Kiyoko out of pity (Which makes me feel highly uncomfortable)
That doesn’t really solve the problem I have since I don’t want to remove her from the game, I want to keep her in so I can talk to her.
But thank you for the advice.
