How to avoid the rat thieves stunlock?

[Bobonga]

No matter which setup or class I try, I get stunlocked to death. I've read other threads and used their strategies. Like the odd-one-out principle, using flash goggles and high armor gear, focusing the middle mouse since they are the healer. Tease focused builds. Nothing works.

Ranged merc with the saumorian railgun and rapid fire? Can kill one mouse, gets stunlock. Melee Techie with 70 int, charged weapon pre-patch and domwulfe? Can barely kill one mouse, gets stunlocked. Smuggler with 50 reflexes and max evasion? As long as stealth field generator is up: might get stunlocked. After that, stunlock. Shield techie with lust combat and domwulfe? Reliably kill one mouse, stunlocked.

The thing is, I know what I'm doing, how the different classes work, proper builds and gear etc. But I ALWAYS get stunlocked. The furthest I got into the fight was round 5 and only because of stealth field generator. I'm just at a loss on what to do.

I could just run or pay them off, sure. But still, how the hell am I supposed to win this fight?

 

[Theron]

They have two Stun attacks: One targets Physique, the other targets Willpower.

With the Tease Tech, are you using Tease attacks or a weapon (Slut Rays/Bimbolium Emitter)? Heavy Slut Ray from the Slavebreakers has a built-in Stun Chance and can be Overcharged. It can also be fired 4 times/round with Rapid Fire (which is the only way to benefit from it's Bonus Hit Rate).

My Melee Tech uses the Custom Shock Gear, because Stun Chance is extremely useful, as is Bonus Hit Rate. What weapon are you using?

If your Smuggler is at Max Evasion, can you drop something for better defense/offense and keep it maxed? I know it's possible by Dhaal, but it doesn't sound like you're there, yet.

I admit I usually finish my business on Zheng Shi before they unlock, so I don't fight them much.

 

[Bobonga]

They have two Stun attacks: One targets Physique, the other targets Willpower.

With the Tease Tech, are you using Tease attacks or a weapon (Slut Rays/Bimbolium Emitter)? Heavy Slut Ray from the Slavebreakers has a built-in Stun Chance and can be Overcharged. It can also be fired 4 times/round with Rapid Fire (which is the only way to benefit from it's Bonus Hit Rate).

My Melee Tech uses the Custom Shock Gear, because Stun Chance is extremely useful, as is Bonus Hit Rate. What weapon are you using?

If your Smuggler is at Max Evasion, can you drop something for better defense/offense and keep it maxed? I know it's possible by Dhaal, but it doesn't sound like you're there, yet.

I admit I usually finish my business on Zheng Shi before they unlock, so I don't fight them much.

The smuggler has a Evasion Bonus of 50% and 27 defense. That was the maximum defence I could get without sacrificing evasion.

So what what got my chars stunlocked, was the physique based stun then. Except for the techie. The melee and lust techie are the same character and he has max physique and willpower. For lust I used the tease action. Granted, my techie is on the flash version and I haven't played him since the java one got released. Even then I could never beat the thieves because of the stunlock. It wasn't even close.

The only time I beaten them was, when Zheng Shi was released for the public. It was ranged merc and I have no idea how I did that.

 

[Bobonga]

I know it's possible by Dhaal, but it doesn't sound like you're there, yet.

Honestly, I just cheat when I test builds. For each class I have a character that is max level, but has no stat points invested or perks selected. I just spec them as I need and cheat the gear I see as optimal. I used these blanks against the thieves, except the techie.

Edit: I should add that I never meet them during my playthroughs. I'm never long enough on Zheng Shi. I made this thread, because I can't see a way to beat the rats.

 

[Theron]

Honestly, I just cheat when I test builds. For each class I have a character that is max level, but has no stat points invested or perks selected. I just spec them as I need and cheat the gear I see as optimal. I used these blanks against the thieves, except the techie.

I assume you selected perks before fighting them?
Can you go into more detail on what gear you used? What you think is optimal might not actually be. Personally, I find Flags to be more impactful than raw stats, especially for weapons.
Trip was changed some time ago to make it more impactful*. You might need to spend the action to stand up.
*-50% Evasion vs Melee, which I'm fairly sure includes a damage increase.

 

[Bobonga]

Yes I selected perks before hand.

Merc: Rouser, Saumorian Railgun, Ramshackle powerarmor, prototype pirate shield, light jetpack. Only -3% evasion, tried to rush the odd ones down with rapid fire. 10 physique, 20 reflexes 50 aim, 50 willpower

Smuggler: Dancing flashbalde, warden shield, tiger print latex, jumpsuit, prototype pirate shield, light jetpack. Melee focused dodge tank. 50 physique, 50 reflexes 3 aim, 1 willpower

Techie: custom shock gear, warden shield, zaika style gown, prototype pirate shield, domwulfe. Charge weapon and stuns. 50 physique, 23 reflexes, 70 intelligence, 50 willpower. Lust techie had the same gear. I used ice cold and my libido was 17, so my teases still did 30-40 dmg, depending on the enemy.

Would you please tell me, what your optimal builds would be?

 

[Theron]

First, I usually do some stat training, so I'm not limited to just level up points (though I wait until after Zheng Shi for most of it because Augment-Weave). I also generally prioritize Shields over HP Defense because Shields come back every encounter.

Merc: Note, I've really only played Melee (because I wanted to see how bad it was). I tried Ramshackle Power Armor, but I don't think it's worth it. If you're Melee, you've already maxed out Physique. If you're Ranged, you pick up Bigger Guns, since Lunge does nothing for you. I usually go Augment-Weave for the bonus Shields.
Cleave is actually useful here, for once. They specifically take reduced damage from Carpet Grenades. I was using the FZR, but I might switch that out. The nerf makes it more useful for Ranged than Melee.
For Ranged, I'd say Tri-Beam Rifle or maybe Heavy Slut Ray, if you're limited to Zheng Shi. I know, I know. Heavy Weapons, right? Thing is, that 20% is only for the base weapon damage. If you're allowing equipment from Dhaal, the Ice Cappers have a similar damage output to the Saurmorian Railgun (once you factor in Crits), a better damage type (particularly vs Shields) and no Evasion penalty.

Smuggler: Mine is Ranged. I'd actually suggest Lighting Rod or Stun Baton over Dancing Flash Blade. A Stun Chance proc lets you automatically get up to 3 attacks of Sneak Attack with no setup round. Remember that Sneak Attack gets 1/2 Intelligence as bonus damage. You could ditch the Pirate Prototype for the Bio-Enhancement Shield. +4 Evasion instead of -3. Leopard Print Jumpsuit has the huge Evasion bonus. Are you sure you didn't mean that?
Lightning Rod + Warden Shield + Zaika Style Gown + Bio-Enhancement Shield = 50% Evasion, 200 Shields and a free Accessory slot. Though you might want a Light Jetpack anyway if you don't want Wings. Remember, you can sacrifice up to 5% Evasion bonus if you plan to mostly be making normal attacks (Cloak and Dagger).
My Ranged Smuggler: Trick Bracer, Shock Bow/Royal Shard Bow/Heavy Slut Ray, Zaika-Style Gown, Bio-Enhancement Shield, Sheild Aug Bracers = 50% Evasion, 270 Shields.

Techie (Melee, Drone): Custom Shock Gear, NaN Deconstructor (because Corona Lord Flamer), Augment-Weave, Pirate Prototype, Tam-Wolf 2.0.

 

[Bobonga]

First, I usually do some stat training,

I always forget that this is a thing.

Smuggler: Mine is Ranged. I'd actually suggest Lighting Rod or Stun Baton over Dancing Flash Blade. A Stun Chance proc lets you automatically get up to 3 attacks of Sneak Attack with no setup round.

That is a good tip.

Remember that Sneak Attack gets 1/2 Intelligence as bonus damage. You could ditch the Pirate Prototype for the Bio-Enhancement Shield. +4 Evasion instead of -3. Leopard Print Jumpsuit has the huge Evasion bonus. Are you sure you didn't mean that?

Yes, I meant the tiger jumpsuit. With my setup I still hit the 50% Evasion cap. The tiger jumpsuit has the highest base defence, of all the sets that allow me to reach the 50% evasion cap. It has 10 defence, the Leopard jumpsuit has 2. If I would switch them my total defence would drop from 27 to 19 without any benefit to evasion. The prototyp shield has 200 shield and better resistances, compared to the bio-enhancement shield.

Though you might want a Light Jetpack anyway if you don't want Wings.

Exactly.

the Ice Cappers have a similar damage output to the Saurmorian Railgun (once you factor in Crits), a better damage type (particularly vs Shields) and no Evasion penalty.

I used them before I tried out the railgun. Results where the same.

A for melee Merc and ranged smuggler: These aren't really my playstyles. I only tried a smuggler, to see how good they are. Though I have yet to start an actual playthrough.

 

[Theron]

That is a good tip.

How could I forget the Custom Shock Gear for Melee Smuggler? Stun Chance, Bonus Hit Rate, Evasion.

Yes, I meant the tiger jumpsuit. With my setup I still hit the 50% Evasion cap. The tiger jumpsuit has the highest base defence, of all the sets that allow me to reach the 50% evasion cap. It has 10 defence, the Leopard jumpsuit has 2. If I would switch them my total defence would drop from 27 to 19 without any benefit to evasion. The prototyp shield has 200 shield and better resistances, compared to the bio-enhancement shield.

Exactly.

If the Accessory Slot is dedicated to the Light Jetpack, I suppose you can eat the Evasion penalty. I still think you're generally better off by focusing on Shields. That said, Smugglers have an undocumented Class Feature: Fully restore Heatlh with 4 hours of Rest.

I used them before I tried out the railgun. Results where the same.

Were you using the Ramshackle Power Armor at the time? Like I said, I don't think it's worth it. You're probably better off with the Tiger Print Jumpsuit/Hardlight Bodyplate/Zaika-Style Gown. Though Hardlight Bodyplate maybe isn't the best idea vs the Rat's Raiders specifically. That's another thing: Ramshackle Power Armor has -5% Electric Resist. Not much, but noticeable. (IIRC, -3% Evasion = +9% incoming damage).
As an aside, I've been saying that Power Armor weapons should have no Evasion penalty when used with Power Armor. Stacking Evasion penalties is a bad idea. It would also give a reason to use Power Armor once you have >= 40 Physique or Bigger Guns.

A for melee Merc and ranged smuggler: These aren't really my playstyles. I only tried a smuggler, to see how good they are. Though I have yet to start an actual playthrough.

I was admitting my experience with Ranged Merc and Melee Smuggler are limited, at best. And adding more data points for consideration.

 

[Bobonga]

Were you using the Ramshackle Power Armor at the time? Like I said, I don't think it's worth it.

I was. It synergyzes well with mercs. Don't forget that they have more health than other classes and can restore 50% of their once per combat. So fortification is stronger on them. Alas, in this case it didn't make a difference. Thanks to extra armor and fortification I survived 8 rounds of stunlocking, instead of 5 rounds. Yay.

But honestly: Thanks. I tried my smuggler and merc again with both 50 physique and willpower. In about 20 fights I got stunned once. Never stunlocked.