Honest question why doesn't Fenoxo hire coders?

[Shiranui]

So this is a completely honest question and I don't intend any malice or insult behind it. Why doesn't Fenoxo hire coders he has the money, according to searches I did the average pay for a flash coder/developer is $55,000 per year or around $4,583 a month.

While expensive hiring 1 or 2 coders would massively reduce workload/speed up development or am I mistaken. Am I missing something that was said at some point about why this can't happen?

 

[SoAndSo]

A lot of the patreon money is taxed, there's like 5 full time staff already, there's countless commissions in the bag, volunteer writers being paid, website costs, hosting costs, oh jeez, so much stuff that needs money.

It's not simply a matter of doling out a salary just like that, let's put it that way, especially when 55k is an insane chunk of the post-tax income if going by just patreon.

 

[Shiranui]

A lot of the patreon money is taxed, there's like 5 full time staff already, there's countless commissions in the bag, volunteer writers being paid, website costs, hosting costs, oh jeez, so much stuff that needs money.

It's not simply a matter of doling out a salary just like that, let's put it that way, especially when 55k is an insane chunk of the post-tax income if going by just patreon.

I guess. I don't understand what you means by "55k is an insane chunk of the post-tax income if going by just Patreon"? 55k is the average yearly salary, which wouldn't be paid all at once. Either way I guess I got my answer that being there are a lot of costs we don't see that eat into that $32,795 a month from Patreon. Admittedly I do wish the costs were a bit more transparent its only a minor gripe.

 

[Evil]

Without knowing the details what ends up going out every month on Fen's side, Patreon currently takes 5% of whatever a content creator makes, but there are also payment processing fees, so a creator could end up losing up somewhere between 7 to 15 %. The TiTS patreon currently makes $32800 a month, so if we are generous and take 10% (combining the Patreon and Processing Fees), that ends up being $29500 a month.

Taking that and SoAndSo's information, its literally down to a matter of money, there simply isn't enough to bring in another person. Hence why people are praising the couple of people who have volunteered to do some coding.

 

[DrunkZombie]

I dont know what country you checked but you aren't getting a coder in the US for $55, 000 per year. Flash coder avg is $89,000. Which is on par with other language coders. https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/flash-developer-salary-SRCH_KO0,15.htm

I certainly wouldn't work for $55,000. Of course I'm currently doing it as a volunteer.

 

[XBoxMaster131]

So, wait, how much of the scratch is going to the primary staff (and by that I mean fen, savin, and any other devs who do this as their primary source of income and not just as part of their general job, ie shou, thoughif I'm being honest I dont know the details on her profession and am just making an assumption for the sake of making an example), and how much of the cash goes to paying fees, taxes, and commissioning less thoroughly involved creators?

 

[Shiranui]

I dont know what country you checked but you aren't getting a coder in the US for $55, 000 per year. Flash coder avg is $89,000. Which is on par with other language coders. https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/flash-developer-salary-SRCH_KO0,15.htm

I certainly wouldn't work for $55,000. Of course I'm currently doing it as a volunteer.

I admit I might have got the number wrong especially since I live in England, so I might have accidentally got the number in pounds. which if I remember its currently around 1.3 dollars to the pounds. Here was the place I checked https://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Flash_Game_Developer/Salary though now looking at it again it seems the preview I got from google was wrong, as it says 61k on the actual site. On that note we might both be wrong considering that for some reason game coding seems to earn less money than other types of coding for some reason and also seems to vary wildly. My guess is because the gaming industry is a bunch of bollocks.

 

[DrunkZombie]

So, wait, how much of the scratch is going to the primary staff (and by that I mean fen, savin, and any other devs who do this as their primary source of income and not just as part of their general job, ie shou, thoughif I'm being honest I dont know the details on her profession and am just making an assumption for the sake of making an example), and how much of the cash goes to paying fees, taxes, and commissioning less thoroughly involved creators?

Only Fen knows that.

Yes, game coders make a little less money on average. Which is one of the reasons I didn't go into the industry. That and the insane hours they have to work.

This is why I have a boring ass corporate coding job and code tits for fun.

 

[Savin]

Why doesn't Fenoxo hire coders he has the money ... Am I missing something that was said at some point about why this can't happen?

You realize we have a staff of like 7 people right, two of whom (Gedan and Wsan) are coders. Fen doesn't just roll around in that money like Scrooge McDuck.

and not just as part of their general job, ie shou

As far as I know, working for TiTS is Shou's only employment.

 

[Unoriginal Name.404]

Fen doesn't just roll around in that money like Scrooge McDuck.

If only he did roll around in money like Scrooge McDuck, so that he could do what he wanted with the game, instead of having to change the game based on the whims of payment processors.

They should not be able to tell him what he can and can't do. it's his business not theirs, if they were investors then i could see why the feel like they should have a say in what he does with the game, but they are not, they are just the middleman.

 

[Shiranui]

If only he did roll around in money like Scrooge McDuck, so that he could do what he wanted with the game, instead of having to change the game based on the whims of payment processors.

They should not be able to tell him what he can and can't do. it's his business not theirs, if they were investors then i could see why the feel like they should have a say in what he does with the game, but they are not, they are just the middleman.

Honestly I both agree and don't agree. On one hand their policy is idiotic and stupid and has rightly lost them business. On the other hand they are well within their rights to set this policy as long as it remains strictly about things related to the Patreon.

It's much like Youtube and it's community guidelines, they are still a middleman but what goes on their site effects them and their image. The moment Patreon or Youtube start acting on things outside themselves e.g. Someone says something on Twitter, with no relation to Patreon/Youtube and they are then punished by Patreon/Youtube that's when they cross the line.

EDIT: Honestly Fen is lucky he only had to remove/rewrite a small amount of content, some games have had to change large parts or even the entirety of their games due to the changes.

 

[DrunkZombie]

Lilith's Throne refused to censor and has been kicked off patreon. The creator is working on getting on a new funding platform.

 

[Linarahn]

Lilith's Throne refused to censor and has been kicked off patreon. The creator is working on getting on a new funding platform.

Well...damn.

 

[Shiranui]

Lilith's Throne refused to censor and has been kicked off patreon. The creator is working on getting on a new funding platform.

Yer mad respect for Innoxia both for refusing to bend the knee to a stupid rule and their honestly worryingly dedicated work ethic.

 

[null_blank]

You can't even compare LT's patreon campaign to TiTs/CoC2.

 

[Evil]

On one hand their policy is idiotic and stupid and has rightly lost them business

I don't see how its idiotic. It's not like the staff at Patreon are twirling their moustaches and laughing in an evil manner. I mean, Patreon is a business, and it has to do things in order to protect itself and its employees. We talk about the 5% they take; that's wages, maintenance, servers and their own fees. They've been leaned on by the institutions who handle their money and who could quite happily drop them and refuse their business at any time.

Its all well and good saying that Patreon has acted in an idiotic manner, but you're not the one at risk of losing your business or losing your job.

 

[Savin]

Anyway, the discussion of Patreon's business decisions (deceitful and idiotic or otherwise) is off-topic for this thread, so let's drop it.