Gweyrerk: ロスト・チルドレンの章 (笑)

[MeIsntVeryCreative]

I'd point out that she knew that one or two wouldn't have been a problem for her, and knows that while she has the training and ability, her children don't. All that would need to happen is a couple of them to attack the tavern, Garth might have been able to handle a couple of them, but all it would take is just one to find the kids.

She's not fighting for herself, she's protecting her kids.

That doesn't justify Gweyr for literally dehumanizing what is literally former town folks, reducing them to fucking meat chunks. I know that people will try to cite that Gweyr did said "I am sowwy x2" but if you recall literally the first thing how she describe to you that what happened that night, the way she worded it almost makes her sounds like she is proud of doing them, really. No matter how no nonsense you are, the last thing you wanted to do is literally describing your victim, whose are mesmerized/hypnotized acting unwillingly, as fucking meat chunks, this only shows she has no respect, no remorse for her victim at all, while knowing all of that!!!!! At no point during her killing she has shown anything for her victim, not even Guts is that heartless.

This only shows what an unempathetic psychopath she is. And she DARE, ASKING, "am I a monster owo" FUCK OFF there is only one conclusion to make really and I doubted this direction of characterization is something that Tobs intended. I am seriously wish they would considering atleast a minor editing if not a redraft. As much as Guts did morally questionable things through his journey, more bunches of them actually, at the fucking least he is not that oblivious and lacking self-awareness to ask such fucking question.

 

[Evil]

Look, I'm going to level with you.

You're boring, MeIsntVeryCreative. And you kinda live up to the name.

You don't want to discuss.

You don't want to share ideas.

You don't want to listen.

Fine, just remember that it cuts both ways, I'm pretty sure a lot of people are no longer listening to your inane rants and shouting.

I'm certainly done.

 

[MeIsntVeryCreative]

Look, I'm going to level with you.

You're boring, MeIsntVeryCreative. And you kinda live up to the name.

You don't want to discuss.

You don't want to share ideas.

You don't want to listen.

Fine, just remember that it cuts both ways, I'm pretty sure a lot of people are no longer listening to your inane rants and shouting.

I'm certainly done.

Hey you are not certainly wrong that I am boring really. Not many were that interested into the debate I agree.

"Sharing ideas". Do you mean stop being a contrarian? I am not going to be converted to a filthy communist.

No. I am certainly listening. Where is the proof of otherwise. And I am the living proof, right now. Listening to you and replying to you with the exact format you are using.

No, it doesn't and I am proving it using what is literally written in the game while all of you simps, the only thing all of you doing are making nonstop assumption for the writer that they don't even brought it up. Constantly making strawmen deflecting my objections.

Look if you wanted to stick with that notion of reading, it is your opinion you obligated to really. I am sure that many others here would agree with you.

Just remember that, there are many others out there who would disagree with that exact notion, and I am not just going to sit down here and suck it up.

 

[Malpha]

This topic got real tiresome. Can we call it quits so I don't have to keep clicking on it to clear updated topics in this forum.

 

[Jorr The Great]

No matter how no nonsense you are, the last thing you wanted to do is literally describing your victim, whose are mesmerized/hypnotized acting unwillingly, as fucking meat chunks, this only shows she has no respect, no remorse for her victim at all, while knowing all of that!!!!! At no point during her killing she has shown anything for her victim, not even Guts is that heartless.

I really try to understand you, I mean without offending obviously, I feel that maybe you suffer a cognitive dissonance because of your fanaticism for Berserk, do you compare Gweyr with Guts because the two were mercenaries or something else? They are not even created with the same role, Guts is a tragic hero and Gweyr is a pragmatic antihero, obviously they will not act or think alike. She will put logic before anything, and as I told you, the most logical thing was to kill them, since it is also most likely that they were executed once they were caught (this data you seem not to accept for some reason); all for the greater good, she tried to cut through all the problems and the only thing that went wrong is that she could not give the villagers the culprit of everything.

Another possibility is that we may not coincide with the term "human", Gweyr's behavior is one of many that humans have, perhaps wild and uncivilized but human at the end of the day, you have the moralistic version and I the logic , I think I'm starting to understand you, the next video is one of the best analogies of what I mean:
Netero's last words

No, it doesn't and I am proving it using what is literally written in the game while all of you simps, the only thing all of you doing are making nonstop assumption for the writer that they don't even brought it up. Constantly making strawmen deflecting my objections.

Although it is true that what I explain are assumptions, these arose from connecting A with B, referring to the talks with Gweyr in the cave and the story that she tells us, added to the various comments of TObs in the thread of repulsion towards the fox people, where he explains why many things he writes, both about characters or context, so I give myself the freedom to think that if someone tells me that I can eat an apple I can assume that it is not rotten; You don't seem to have mentioned it either, which seems strange to me since practically this thread is a criticism, in my opinion naive, of her work (and indirectly to Savin's supervision, of course.

 

[EvilK]

I really try to understand you, I mean without offending obviously, I feel that maybe you suffer a cognitive dissonance because of your fanaticism for Berserk, do you compare Gweyr with Guts because the two were mercenaries or something else? They are not even created with the same role, Guts is a tragic hero and Gweyr is a pragmatic antihero, obviously they will not act or think alike. She will put logic before anything, and as I told you, the most logical thing was to kill them, since it is also most likely that they were executed once they were caught (this data you seem not to accept for some reason); all for the greater good, she tried to cut through all the problems and the only thing that went wrong is that she could not give the villagers the culprit of everything.

Another possibility is that we may not coincide with the term "human", Gweyr's behavior is one of many that humans have, perhaps wild and uncivilized but human at the end of the day, you have the moralistic version and I the logic , I think I'm starting to understand you, the next video is one of the best analogies of what I mean:
Netero's last words


Although it is true that what I explain are assumptions, these arose from connecting A with B, referring to the talks with Gweyr in the cave and the story that she tells us, added to the various comments of TObs in the thread of repulsion towards the fox people, where he explains why many things he writes, both about characters or context, so I give myself the freedom to think that if someone tells me that I can eat an apple I can assume that it is not rotten; You don't seem to have mentioned it either, which seems strange to me since practically this thread is a criticism, in my opinion naive, of her work (and indirectly to Savin's supervision, of course.

Was it actully stated that the cultists would have been executed had Gweyr not killed them?
Considering their state of mind and that we are talking about half of the younger generation it seems a strech.

 

[Jorr The Great]

Was it actully stated that the cultists would have been executed had Gweyr not killed them?
Considering their state of mind and that we are talking about half of the younger generation it seems a strech.

It would not be a mystery to think that even if Tollus had not gotten away with it, those boys no longer had a remedy, TObs likes the historical context and stealing was not a small thing in those times, just as an example:

Spoiler: Traducido en google

The Siete Partidas, promulgated in the 13th century under the personal direction of Alfonso X the Wise, contained a detailed description of the alleged robberies, with penalties ranging from a fine to death. Thus in the case of El Milagro Del Gallo y la Gallina that occurred in Santo Domingo de la Calzada, it does not seem to be an exaggeration that the penalty for having stolen a silver cup was hanging, with the public exposition of the body of the accused. And in the seventeenth century, with Philip IV, the unpunished homicide of highway robbers and robbers was established , also giving the right to claim a prize and their hanging, dismemberment, and subsequent display of the cut-up remains in public places, if they were detained by the authorities ”.

Now imagine something greater such as treason, public disorder, organized kidnapping and apology for crime, added to the clear lack of resources in the region, where possibly a piece of bread is all the food of the day, the Baroness would undoubtedly have sentenced death and possibly Atugia would have acted as executioner; Now let's imagine that Sanders lets them be in the village, it seems that this brainwashing was very powerful, neither Sanders nor relatives had made them see reason, it opened discontent among neighbors and it would not take long for problems to begin to arise; If they were exiled, they would possibly die of hunger or cold, since their only chance of survival would be to follow Tollus, becoming a constant danger that would constantly harass the people.
From where I see it those boys were dead.

 

[EvilK]

It would not be a mystery to think that even if Tollus had not gotten away with it, those boys no longer had a remedy, TObs likes the historical context and stealing was not a small thing in those times, just as an example:

Spoiler: Traducido en google

The Siete Partidas, promulgated in the 13th century under the personal direction of Alfonso X the Wise, contained a detailed description of the alleged robberies, with penalties ranging from a fine to death. Thus in the case of El Milagro Del Gallo y la Gallina that occurred in Santo Domingo de la Calzada, it does not seem to be an exaggeration that the penalty for having stolen a silver cup was hanging, with the public exposition of the body of the accused. And in the seventeenth century, with Philip IV, the unpunished homicide of highway robbers and robbers was established , also giving the right to claim a prize and their hanging, dismemberment, and subsequent display of the cut-up remains in public places, if they were detained by the authorities ”.

Now imagine something greater such as treason, public disorder, organized kidnapping and apology for crime, added to the clear lack of resources in the region, where possibly a piece of bread is all the food of the day, the Baroness would undoubtedly have sentenced death and possibly Atugia would have acted as executioner; Now let's imagine that Sanders lets them be in the village, it seems that this brainwashing was very powerful, neither Sanders nor relatives had made them see reason, it opened discontent among neighbors and it would not take long for problems to begin to arise; If they were exiled, they would possibly die of hunger or cold, since their only chance of survival would be to follow Tollus, becoming a constant danger that would constantly harass the people.
From where I see it those boys were dead.

I would point out however that despite the setting having close ties with certain historical contexts it does not mean the punishments will necessarily be 1 to 1. Sentencing was also likely handled differently depending on the location and those in charge so i wouldn't be too quick to assume a specific outcome considering the uniqueness of the situation.
Gweyr didn't give anyone a chance to see if it was reversible. Considering Ivris' alchemical knowledge, and possibly Evergreen's abilities, there may have been a real chance to fix their condition. We simply don't know and will never get a chance to know.

 

[Evil]

Thats assuming that Ivris was living in the village at the time and that Lady Evergreen was on good relations with the village.
Not to mention the time factor - you're not going to ask the people trying to take over the village while you just take a quick trip up north and ask a Tanuki sorceress if she could help clear their heads.

As for sentencing or punishments, with a society that is still essentially in the Bronze Age and with some Celtic influences (that's just my interpretation), a quick look at ancient Celtic Law can give us an idea of what punishments might have been meted out.
Outright execution was usually seen as a last resort. Typically someone who killed would have had to pay two kinds of fines, a wergild or "Man Price" - compensation to the deceased's family, and then the honour price, which was another payment made to the family of the deceased, though if the killer been unable to pay the price, their own family would have to pay and if they couldn't pay themselves for whatever reason, the killer would be given to the deceased's family, which typically one of three ways - wait for payment, sell the killer into slavery or just kill them themselves.

Given how quickly the village was overtaken and how no one but Gweyr fought back, they wergild could have been astronomical, but the honour price would probably have been waived, due to the fact that the cultists were the ones who attacked first.

 

[Jorr The Great]

Gweyr didn't give anyone a chance to see if it was reversible. Considering Ivris' alchemical knowledge, and possibly Evergreen's abilities, there may have been a real chance to fix their condition. We simply don't know and will never get a chance to know.

I do not remember that anywhere he explains when Ivris arrived at the settlement, if anyone knows, I would appreciate if you could tell me, I really thought that maybe the girl who saved Gwyn was Ivris since she does not seem very old even with the greater life expectancy, but it would be a lot to speculate; Leora was of the first generation but if that was 15 years ago I think she should be one of the young people who were not fooled by Tollus.

The good relationship of the people with Oxana seems to be recent, and we must remember that they are in bad terms with the Baroness, so even if they had asked her for help, they might not get the price.

Well, they explain that the formation of the sect was not overnight, so both asking Ivris or Oxana for help should have already been done at that point, unless Sanders' ineptitude was even greater than it seems. They were already at a point where the cultists did not care about River's life or they put Tollus's orders as a priority over their own life.

 

[MeIsntVeryCreative]

Last note, feel free to agree or disagree or not.

Spoiler: TRIGGER WARNING

My assumption is that Tobs specifically leave out some of the Gweyr's characterization from his original draft to what we got now. Unfortunately, this time, open up to interpretation style doesn't really work. This is supposed to be the "moment of truth" moment, so if Gweyr being no nonsense character, which makes total sense in-universe and to the audiences, I expected her to not leave out any details and especially given the question she asked you in the end, she is obviously desired to be sympathized with, there is no reason for her to leave out any details so I will take her words literally for it.

 

[Emerald]

You don't need to put a trigger warning in a spoiler about an opinion. What do you think this place is, Tumblr/Twitter? :U

 

[mrpockets]

Last note, feel free to agree or disagree or not.

Spoiler: TRIGGER WARNING

My assumption is that Tobs specifically leave out some of the Gweyr's characterization from his original draft to what we got now. Unfortunately, this time, open up to interpretation style doesn't really work. This is supposed to be the "moment of truth" moment, so if Gweyr being no nonsense character, which makes total sense in-universe and to the audiences, I expected her to not leave out any details and especially given the question she asked you in the end, she is obviously desired to be sympathized with, there is no reason for her to leave out any details so I will take her words literally for it.

one way to look at this that would let us assume that she didn't actually give us all the details that would make her more sympathetic would be that she's explaining this to someone who lives in that world where it's basically the bronze age while we live in an age several stages beyond theirs so she wouldn't think to include details that she would think would be painfully obvious but aren't because we aren't from the same age as her.

 

[EvilK]

I do not remember that anywhere he explains when Ivris arrived at the settlement, if anyone knows, I would appreciate if you could tell me, I really thought that maybe the girl who saved Gwyn was Ivris since she does not seem very old even with the greater life expectancy, but it would be a lot to speculate; Leora was of the first generation but if that was 15 years ago I think she should be one of the young people who were not fooled by Tollus.

The good relationship of the people with Oxana seems to be recent, and we must remember that they are in bad terms with the Baroness, so even if they had asked her for help, they might not get the price.

Well, they explain that the formation of the sect was not overnight, so both asking Ivris or Oxana for help should have already been done at that point, unless Sanders' ineptitude was even greater than it seems. They were already at a point where the cultists did not care about River's life or they put Tollus's orders as a priority over their own life.

I don't believe that we are told when Ivris arrived in Hawkthorn. It could very well be that she wasn't there. Ivris is supposed to be older than she looks though, due to being an elf.
I wasn't aware the tanuki were on bad terms with the Baroness, however Garth does mention that sometimes the villagers go and seek services Ivris can't or won't do. Considering this is a situation where they have to lose or save half the younger generation I don't think they would be that concerned over 'bad terms'.

Thats assuming that Ivris was living in the village at the time and that Lady Evergreen was on good relations with the village.
Not to mention the time factor - you're not going to ask the people trying to take over the village while you just take a quick trip up north and ask a Tanuki sorceress if she could help clear their heads.

As for sentencing or punishments, with a society that is still essentially in the Bronze Age and with some Celtic influences (that's just my interpretation), a quick look at ancient Celtic Law can give us an idea of what punishments might have been meted out.
Outright execution was usually seen as a last resort. Typically someone who killed would have had to pay two kinds of fines, a wergild or "Man Price" - compensation to the deceased's family, and then the honour price, which was another payment made to the family of the deceased, though if the killer been unable to pay the price, their own family would have to pay and if they couldn't pay themselves for whatever reason, the killer would be given to the deceased's family, which typically one of three ways - wait for payment, sell the killer into slavery or just kill them themselves.

Given how quickly the village was overtaken and how no one but Gweyr fought back, they wergild could have been astronomical, but the honour price would probably have been waived, due to the fact that the cultists were the ones who attacked first.

Gweyr would have subdued them first before anyone went to seek the witches.
Interesting info on sentencing back them.

 

[MeIsntVeryCreative]

See https://forum.fenoxo.com/threads/gweyrerk-an-unbridled-follow-up.22866/

 

[Savin]

I do not remember that anywhere he explains when Ivris arrived at the settlement, if anyone knows, I would appreciate if you could tell me

It's implied to be fairly recent in Sanders' talk on the matter (TBA):

It drove most of the settlers back then away, over time, such that the village nearly failed entirely. It wasn't until Lady Ivris came north with fifty Belharan refugees that we began to recover.