Getting Started on M'enga and accessibility stuff

Orinks

Member
Sep 14, 2015
12
0
Hi everyone,

I just backed this project on Patron, so yay for me. Anyhow, I'm one of the few people playing these games with a screen reader--possibly the only one now because a friend of mine quit.

Anyway, I have both a general question and an accessibility inquiry. My question is, how do I properly start the story after the intro? I've been going into Anon's having fun with Celasy and just messing around on M'enga. The first quest I encountered was to capture a Zill. Cool, but are there any good weapons I can get at this low level to survive that? First time I encountered one I didn't do too well against without some sort of weapon. Also when I played in those other saves I couldn't get the quest because Zenotech wasn't open. Now that I have it, at this state I probably can't capture one, and Peggy's Zill doesn't count right? I suppose even if it does, they're worse than the ones in the jungle if I chose to fight them Lol.

And now for my accessibility inquiry: In the latest build I got from Patren, most actions are labeled with a tag, such as the Inventory, Crew, Sleep, Fly etc in your ship. Most traveling directions are also labeled. This is great. There are some buttons that are not, however, and this is what I'd like fixed if possible.

The first button that my screen reader comes to but doesn't say what it is is the Menu button. This button appears when in a scene and I don't know what the button is properly called, but it takes me back to the main menu.

The second, also appearing in a scene is the save/load screen. I can get to this screen by clicking the menu button, and then clicking "data" but why go through two steps when an easier method is available?

The third I believe when outside of customs at M'enga is the boards button where you get the quest for the Doctor, but elsewhere, like my ship or at Tavros is the Mail system. Strangely, when I clicked to go read the board it wasn't labeled at all. When I was done with the board scene it was labeled. When elsewhere however to get to the mail system, the mail button isn't labeled, and everything for the mail screen isn't labeled.

There are other unlabeled buttons too, such as some buttons in the storage equipment interface, etc. I haven't used those yet though.

I hope to see these fixes, but I could deal with the problems until they are. I just want to know what to do on M'enga, how to unlock the other planets, etc?

Thanks everyone.
 

Noob Salad

Captain Shitpost
Aug 26, 2015
4,374
1,559
There's a wiki that tells you how to do things.

All buttons except the ones on the left side of the screen are labeled. Those (as well as most other buttons) have tooltips that display if you mouse over them (which you can see/hear with most screen readers). This almost certainly isn't going to change.
 
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MESeele

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2015
650
64
There's a wiki that tells you how to do things. You can also just type "[redacted]" without the quotes to unlock all the planets, which you can fly to with your ship.

All buttons except the ones on the left side of the screen are labeled. Those (as well as most other buttons) have tooltips that display if you mouse over them (which you obviously can't do with a screen reader). This almost certainly isn't going to change.

Pretty sure Fen didn't want any cheat but "furfag" publicized, but you already knew that. Hell, you knew typing it that this guy will misuse it and bug-report/complain about its ramifications later.

As for TC, are you really asking for more hand-holding? Perhaps a guy with a gigantic exclamation point above his head that tells you to explore the North-east corner of the map? As for needing help to survive a Zil, I point you to "Easy Mode".
 

Lashcharge

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2015
706
135
Pretty sure Fen didn't want any cheat but "furfag" publicized, but you already knew that. Hell, you knew typing it that this guy will misuse it and bug-report/complain about its ramifications later.

As for TC, are you really asking for more hand-holding? Perhaps a guy with a gigantic exclamation point above his head that tells you to explore the North-east corner of the map? As for needing help to survive a Zil, I point you to "Easy Mode".

I don't think a giant exclamation mark would help, because a quick googling shows that screen readers are usually used by people that are visually impaired(which is kinda obvious with the type of typos he wrote there.).
 

Noob Salad

Captain Shitpost
Aug 26, 2015
4,374
1,559
Sorry, I didn't know. Edited my post.
 
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Couch

Scientist
Creator
Aug 26, 2015
1,614
910
Zil are a constantly horny species, and thus are most easily defeated using tease attacks early on.  This is also true of naleen, who are particularly weak against chest teases.

To acquire a much better gun, go to the west side of town and talk to Crazy Carl.  Select the ZK Rifle in his shop offerings, then click The Robot when prompted.  After that, in the southwest corner of the jungle will be a boss battle against a Machina.  You can beat it if you get to about level 3.  Do so and return to Carl for the gun free of charge.

Noobsaleh, don't hand out codes besides furfag.  MESeele, please try not to be an asshole to the visually impaired.
 
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MESeele

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2015
650
64
I don't think a giant exclamation mark would help, because a quick googling shows that screen readers are usually used by people that are visually impaired(which is kinda obvious with the type of typos he wrote there.).

I admit not making that quick google, so my bad on that. I still thought that might have been the case, but I assumed he could see well enough if he could successfully navigate to this site and page. The typos(as few as they are) do not, however, make it obvious. There are people here with far worse spelling and grammar, and far less capable of conveying what they wish to say.

edit: Still, it was not my intention to offend. I apologize for that.
 
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Lashcharge

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2015
706
135
I admit not making that quick google, so my bad on that. I still thought that might have been the case, but I assumed he could see well enough if he could successfully navigate to this site and page. The typos(as few as they are) do not, however, make it obvious. There are people here with far worse spelling and grammar, and far less capable of conveying what they wish to say.

edit: Still, it was not my intention to offend. I apologize for that.

I found it obvious because his typos seem to be entirely in the names (Zenotech, Zill, Peggy, Celasy, Patren) and the rest of his writing looks pretty good.
 
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Svelliphore

Active Member
Aug 28, 2015
29
2
I admit not making that quick google, so my bad on that. I still thought that might have been the case, but I assumed he could see well enough if he could successfully navigate to this site and page. The typos(as few as they are) do not, however, make it obvious. There are people here with far worse spelling and grammar, and far less capable of conveying what they wish to say.

The point of screen readers is that you don't (or shouldn't, assuming proper accessible site design) have to be able to see see well enough to successfully navigate to a site and page. 

MESeele, please try not to be an asshole to the visually impaired.

It's probably a good idea not to be an asshole to anyone.

Orinks: I think you should make a separate post in the Bug Reports sub-forum about the accessibility issues, since that's something that can only be addressed by the coders.
 
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MESeele

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2015
650
64
I found it obvious because his typos seem to be entirely in the names (Zenotech, Zill, Peggy, Celasy, Patren) and the rest of his writing looks pretty good.

*sigh* I feel like I'm drilling myself down into a stupid pit while people just pile on the gravel. 20/20 hindsight.
 

Jacques00

Administrator
Moderator
Aug 26, 2015
4,768
1,120
As the aphorism goes: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."--or in this case, pure ignorance on the matter. In other words: someone made a mistake, please get over it and stop rubbing it in--especially if they corrected their mistake after realizing they've made one.

On topic of the fix requests for screen readers, I would also suggest posting your concerns on the bug reports sub-forum so Gedan can take a look at it. I'm not sure how all buttons will have text implemented given how the interface is laid out currently, but maybe an explicit screen reader toggle option could be available somewhere to make it work.

For the buttons on the left-side menu, it is set up in two rows: the first row contains the "Main Menu", "Save/Load", "Quicksave", and "Appearance" (this button takes up two rows). The second row contains "Extranet Messenger", "Character Perks", "Character Level Up".

  • "Main Menu" leads to the entry menu in the title screen, so all the options on this screen are the same as what appears on the title screen (including the save and load options).
  • "Save/Load" leads straight to the save and load screen. This button might be the one you are looking for when it comes to saving/loading without accessing another menu to do it, but I'm not sure about how accessible it is on the reader.
  • "Quicksave" is a quick save feature, but it has not been implemented, so it is currently disabled and is only there as a placeholder button.
  • "Appearance" leads to a full-text description for your character, describing the the character in detail and may also contain extra options, if applicable to your character.
  • "Extranet Messenger", as you found out, leads to the mail system. This is primarily for reviewing any mail sent to your character.
  • "Character Perks" leads to the list of current perks your character currently has.
  • "Character Level Up", if points are available, this button will be enabled and it leads to the leveling screen where you can upgrade your character's stats and give them class-related perks. I am unsure about the accessibility of this screen however.
The mail system is still a little wonky, I think, but I assume it may be incompatible with readers at its current stage--it builds a list of unlocked messages similar to how the Codex does with codex entries. Again, Gedan might have more useful input on these functions. The storage menu might need some tweaking to pop up new text though.

Hope this helps.
 

Orinks

Member
Sep 14, 2015
12
0
Hi everyone,

Thanks for the replies. I take no offense to MeSeele's post, especially after he apologized. Moving on...

Thanks to everyone who suggested I post about the buttons in Bug Reports. I shall, and see what comes of it. Hopefully with my help, this game can become just as accessible as CoC, because I have no issues with that game at all.
 

Gedan

BUTTS BUTTS BUTTS
Staff member
Aug 26, 2015
8,008,893
8,008,326
On topic of the fix requests for screen readers, I would also suggest posting your concerns on the bug reports sub-forum so Gedan can take a look at it. I'm not sure how all buttons will have text implemented given how the interface is laid out currently, but maybe an explicit screen reader toggle option could be available somewhere to make it work.
Trip report from AS3 Accessibility information mines: fuck my life  :shepicide:

I wouldn't classify this stuff as a bug report. I had a poke and tried a few things that may or may not help (I guess we'll see in the next build), but if this moves anywhere it's going to be a long process of figuring out what the shit Flash is trying to do under the hood, trying it out and getting feedback on it, because I obviously have very little idea of what is actually helping for real.

I have a feeling that it's leaning on the order that elements were added (based on parent containers, so it's finding the first container, exhausting all the things in that, then moving on to the next...). A lot of things had defined names, even if they didn't have any textual content- I'd assumed flash would have been smart enough to use that information for screen readers for those elements, but obviously not. There is some under-the-hood things that can be set (which I've tried to do) but it looks like an absolute total minefield to get right- hence the "do a little bit, see how you get on". I could throw weeks into this and still fuck it up as it stands so.
 
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Svelliphore

Active Member
Aug 28, 2015
29
2
Trip report from AS3 Accessibility information mines: fuck my life  :shepicide:

I wouldn't classify this stuff as a bug report. I had a poke and tried a few things that may or may not help (I guess we'll see in the next build), but if this moves anywhere it's going to be a long process of figuring out what the shit Flash is trying to do under the hood, trying it out and getting feedback on it, because I obviously have very little idea of what is actually helping for real.

I have a feeling that it's leaning on the order that elements were added (based on parent containers, so it's finding the first container, exhausting all the things in that, then moving on to the next...). A lot of things had defined names, even if they didn't have any textual content- I'd assumed flash would have been smart enough to use that information for screen readers for those elements, but obviously not. There is some under-the-hood things that can be set (which I've tried to do) but it looks like an absolute total minefield to get right- hence the "do a little bit, see how you get on". I could throw weeks into this and still fuck it up as it stands so.
Well, it may not exactly be a bug report, but it's certainly most closely connected to coding rather than writing. It's more of a "missing software feature." I noticed the "Balance Issues" sub-forum doesn't seem to exist anymore (of course, technically this is not a balance issue either). Incidentally, I was just wondering what will happen once Orinks gets to the Lights Off game... do you have any idea if that's possible with a non-visual interface?
 

Gedan

BUTTS BUTTS BUTTS
Staff member
Aug 26, 2015
8,008,893
8,008,326
Maybe- the reader is pulling the actual text labels inside the buttons, so worst case I'd just have to stick a character in there to indicate on/off. Not perfect, but it's about as good as it'll get, plus it's a pretty simple puzzle anyway :U
 

Lashcharge

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2015
706
135
Maybe- the reader is pulling the actual text labels inside the buttons, so worst case I'd just have to stick a character in there to indicate on/off. Not perfect, but it's about as good as it'll get, plus it's a pretty simple puzzle anyway :U

0 for on and 1 for off would work. And to be honest the coloured buttons are not great either.