garth ghost quest

Raginmund

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2021
52
74
shrugs They've stormed out and then come back in with "WELL THERE'S ONE MORE THING" before, so hey, they might do so again. I engage in good faith who seem like they're also there to engage in good faith, and have fun with the people who seem like they're there to throw out some bait and get a rise.
Right well that would mean that you're acting based upon assumptions that the guest user will continue further, as though that is justification as such. Although, the impression is that you do not necessarily care whether or not the aforementioned criticism / ridiculing of their posts was warranted or not.
And on to your last point, you wouldn't necessarily be able to definitively say whether someone is indeed partaking in "good faith" (hence the "seem" within your post), so that means that you'd once again be assuming when interacting with people in "good faith" vs "bad faith". Additionally, it's interesting that that fits your description of "hav[ing] fun", but whatever I guess.

However, it seems pretty counter productive though (whether it's fun or not), seeing as fundamentally you're doing so because you disagree with them (if you didn't you wouldn't really be replying, as you wouldn't be "having fun" in that regard). Which by doing so (replying to them), it's certainly more effort than just simply ignoring them / their post(s) (literally in the case of non-guest users or figuratively) in the first place.
Not to mention the fact that others will have to sift through drivel if they wanted to observe content actually related to this thread and its topic.



Maybe not but I bet it felt good. The whole problem with this thread and the OP boils down to a common theme:

1) Newb posts about changes they want to see made
2) Regulars reply with reasons said change can't/won't happen
3) Newb won't let it go and a simple question turns into a debate
4) Regulars sigh and go, "Here we go again..." then link to loads of threads where the Devs say exactly what's already been said
5) Newb refuses to back down because they Have A Unique Perspective And Are Always Right; debate morphs into argument
6) Regulars get frustrated and tell the Newb to Suck It Up, Buttercup
7) Bystanders cry, "Was that really necessary?"
8) Regulars reply, "If you only knew..."

Wash, rinse, repeat ad nauseam.
That's a pretty interesting way to derive joy (in reference to the "... I bet it felt good").

Also, nice disingenuous example there. This thread (initial post) was not necessarily a post made with demands about changes to be made. It was a thread (post) in the questions and answers sub-forum inquiring as to possible inconsistencies, which seems pretty likely, as it is quite literally not consistent with the primary design document. The primary design document doesn't give additional context behind it's exact specification for not gating "non-violent or seduction options" behind Presence, it quite literally states (via the implication of no specific context) that in all cases it should never happen.
Those that are trying to explain (justify) such inconsistency away by speculative explanations would be doing just that, speculating. That does not just make the inconsistency magically disappear, in fact it just seems as though the community is not willing to accept the possibility that there are inconsistencies in this game.

Onto points 1) through 8):
1) "Common theme" implying that this happens often, yes? One could be forgiven for thinking that the implication would be that this is implied to be the occurrence "all of the time", as seems to be inferred. Anyway, does this mean that the guest users / new members always post about changes they want to be made? What about initially listed questions (as seen by the "could" and "can"), as stipulated in this scenario?
2) Okay, is that based on speculations from previous information? If so, wouldn't it be better to have devs address the queries? If it's to do with stuff on the banned list, then that's inevitable, but if it's game design related, that would probably be more in-line with the devs addressing instead of community speculation.
3) In most scenarios? Debatable, but sure, I'd be willing to entertain that possibility, as having regular members seemingly all reply to one detailing as to why their wrong would possibly lead one to reply in defense of oneself.
4) Alright, that's fine, but that doesn't necessarily make the other stance / viewpoint more inherently correct. Links being referred to may not always be consistent (prime example being the whole Wayfort PC castle thing - initially it wasn't going to be the PCs caslte - but now it is, so previously links to the prior statement would not be relevent). I'd then argue that for specific things like design queries, and consistency queries it'd be best to just let the dev team address them if they so desire (as their stances could very into the future, and they'd know how they wanted to address it, if they wanted to address it).
5) In most scenarios? Once again, debatable. But sure, once again even if I entertain this possibility, the emphasis supplied in your point then implies that they're actually consistently wrong. I'd argue that it's doubtful that every query / suggestion by a guest user / new member is not credible in the slightest and is purely for vitriolic means or causing trouble.
6) Sure, getting heating is one thing, but when it's multiple regular members seemingly against a guest user / new member, therein lies an issue. It comes across as though the community is not accepting of newer members or guest users, as there seems to be a jaded impression of them - as though they're all trouble makers (supported by your very points I'm responding too). Such comments as telling the guest user / new member to "Suck It Up, Buttercup" is not necessary, as it reflects a mocking tone and will just further the debate (something which you've gone on to imply is what you disdain).
I'm pretty sure the guest user / new member would be well aware by that point that nothing would change in any case, but having the community say that (as well as it being several members seemingly dogpiling) would obviously not be received well - as it would make one feel as though they're on the backfoot.
7) I don't know why you prefaced it in a somewhat condescending manner. It's still worthy of questioning whether it's necessary or not due to the fact that you seemingly have such a disdain for such occurrences of debates yourself - seemingly criticizing others for questioning the practice of trying to continue the debate is questionable in of itself. Sounds like you dislike these occurrences (in references to the common trend), yet don't want people to question aspects about it's occurrence (and continuation) in the first place.
8) Right, because that seemingly would make it justified? Look, that in conjunction with the above points leads one to conclude that some of the community seemingly enjoy "putting others down" either via snark, mocking or being condescending if they disagree with said others - yet get offended when it gets heated. Nobody enjoys stating a stance / viewpoint and being replied to by the majority of the community accusing them of being wrong for having such stance / viewpoint. Prefacing it as though all the above replied to guest users / new members are justified because of their actions is where the problem would seem to lie. Both sides would then need to accept some level of responsibility for the whole interaction occurring, not just trying to justify it for one side in particular.

As for your last point, then if you seem to have such a disdain for it, why do you seemingly condone it? It seems you don't hold those that question it / critique it in high regard in reference to you classifying it as "cry[ing]".
And that line in of itself would be referring to the definition of insanity, no? Doing something over and over again, in the exact same manner, yet still expecting a different result.
I'd say that no regular member is obligated to respond to guest users / new members, and if they do so, they should arguably do so with the point of addressing such queries / suggestions instead of debating things. If that is indeed the case and nobody seems to enjoy such debates.

I get that there can be frustration on both sides (as I've just edited out the relatively heated nature of this post myself), but that shouldn't be used as justification for it if it's a common occurrence. Surely there would be some better way of solving said issues (potentially having devs answer such critical / consistency / game design queries / suggestions) instead of having members dogpile and mock / ridicule.
Just like guest users / new members could try and not be so unnecessarily vitriolic.

Anyways, this tangent has gone on for quite a bit, and is not particularly relevant to the initial purpose of the thread, so I guess I'm guilty of hypocrisy for mentioning that point earlier.
Apologies for derailing this thread with this topic, as it is quite true that there was at least some unnecessary measures by both parties within this debate.
 
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Bast

Well-Known Member
Aug 12, 2021
501
286
Oh, my.. So how do I put this?..

Speaking for myself since I'm not a regular or anything. I just like the game and laugh at all the fun degeneracy. And I'm having great fun with it. There was just a rude person that needed to be shut down. No need for anyone else on the internet to bother and correct their behavior with love and kindness where their parents failed.
I mean, I don't know you and maybe you're actually successful with that holier-than-though attitude but I don't believe it's gonna be good for you in the long run to try to accommodate to people that are unpleasant to be around and are rude to you. @Raginmund
 

Raginmund

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2021
52
74
Now you got me intrigued what your response would've been.
There wouldn't have been a reply to those specific comments (the vulgarity), as the guest user said that in a generalized sense to the community, and it wasn't particularly the focal point of this thread (you could of read my stance in the post you directly replied to, actually).
As mentioned before though, they were unnecessary (the comments) and seemed to be attention seeking in nature - and used as a device for the OP to justify their stance (and opinion of the community), based on the replies given by the community (which they seemingly then did).

Oh, my.. So how do I put this?..

Speaking for myself since I'm not a regular or anything. I just like the game and laugh at all the fun degeneracy. And I'm having great fun with it. There was just a rude person that needed to be shut down. No need for anyone else on the internet to bother and correct their behavior with love and kindness where their parents failed.
I mean, I don't know you and maybe you're actually successful with that holier-than-though attitude but I don't believe it's gonna be good for you in the long run to try to accommodate to people that are unpleasant to be around and are rude to you. @Raginmund
I'd say you'd probably qualify as a regular moreso than the OP.

Huh, kind of ironic that the person that seemingly judges others character traits, background and upbringing based on a single thread interaction would then use "holier-than-though" as a further point within their post. Might I suggest not doing so for future reference, because the hypocrisy of doing such is quite humorous.
It'd be easier to just disprove peoples points with logic and / or definitive proof instead of resorting to armchair psychology and further presumptuous takes.

And no, sorry to disappoint, if you're interpreting me judging others based on their responses to the OP then you're sadly mistaken. When I say I personally don't see the point in doing so (replying to OP's vitriolic comments), that is quite literally the case. OP seemingly wanted attention (or at least attention drawn to this thread), which they then achieved via their vulgarity. Why address it if it played into exactly the behavior they seemingly wanted (and no, not a judging question - literally just questioning the logic)?

As for the above reply in response to zagzig and Paradox01, sure it was hyperbolic in some areas. Not really defending that.

Moral (uh, guess I can't really use that word, huh - "holier-than-thou") of the story would be to ensure that one is prepared every time they pose a query / suggestion in relation to the game, it's designs and potential inconsistencies - as one may be met with a barrage of replies from some members who may not be willing to entertain the possibility of there ever being any validity to the posts / threads presented.
And no, by this I'm not defending the vitriolic reactions either - they were unnecessary, which is why I never addressed them (as mentioned before).
 

Paradox01

Well-Known Member
Feb 8, 2020
1,817
2,484
USA
That's a pretty interesting way to derive joy (in reference to the "... I bet it felt good").
Telling someone they're being annoying AF? Yeah, that is a pretty great feeling...unless you were sent by SkyNet, of course. :ghost:

Also, nice disingenuous example there.
How is it in the least bit disingenuous? I said "common theme", not "exact replication". This thread hit enough notes to be a familiar tune to regulars. It's Vanilla Ice's "Ice Ice Baby" to Queen and David Bowie's "Under Pressure". And speaking of which...

"Common theme" implying that this happens often, yes? One could be forgiven for thinking that the implication would be that this is implied to be the occurrence "all of the time", as seems to be inferred.
That is some OLYMPIC level jumping to conclusions, there, pal. Jesus christ, and you have the balls to call my point disingenuous?? One could (and would) NOT be forgiven for inferring "common theme" implies that it happens "all of the time" and certainly not by my words. Read this sentence:

"Dreams are rich in metaphor and two common themes are being naked and flying."

By your "logic" (GOD how it hurt to apply that term to the word salad you vomited onto my screen), every single dream ever has nothing to do with anything other than being naked and flying.

As to the rest of what you said, I'm not even going to bother breaking down how massively you misinterpreted what I said point by point. I have to be at work in 9 hours. Let's just say there would have been a "common theme" based on what I've already wasted time on with this post.

I will say one thing in closing, however; don't bother replying to this, as I'm done replying to your posts or even reading what you post from here on. Let's see if you stick to your guns on this point.