Games with traps, fembois?
- Thread starter GamerPigon
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Otomeido Cafe is a pretty decent one, with an English patch available too.
If you can understand Japanese, Josou Shounen: Iede Chu is another good one.
Sissy Maker is probably the best of the western-made ones, although that's (arguably) more about transgenderism than it is crossdressing (although all the "girls" in it remain pre-op shemales rather than going fully female).
If you can understand Japanese, Josou Shounen: Iede Chu is another good one.
Sissy Maker is probably the best of the western-made ones, although that's (arguably) more about transgenderism than it is crossdressing (although all the "girls" in it remain pre-op shemales rather than going fully female).
On the subject of Japanese games all of those by Otoko no ko Club are quality. Most western-made ones just can't compare - as you say they're either more about sissies (and personally I find that whole angle distasteful) or don't have the same quality of art.
There are a few decent western-made ones, though. Tales of Androgyny has a lot of content, most of it okay-to-good with a few shining moments, and three RPG Maker games (Magical Camp, Afterlife, and Witchload) can all make for a fun afternoon each.
There are a few decent western-made ones, though. Tales of Androgyny has a lot of content, most of it okay-to-good with a few shining moments, and three RPG Maker games (Magical Camp, Afterlife, and Witchload) can all make for a fun afternoon each.
I just started checking out a Twine game called The Sissy Girlfriend Experiment, which is a sissification/femdom game. It's... OK, a bit linear if you just follow the sissification path with your girlfriend/mistress. I have no idea what happens if you don't, that seems counterproductive to the entire point of the game.
Expanding on Stemwinder's comments about western trap games vs Japanese ones, I think it speaks to differences in perception of cross-dressing or transexual men. It's even in the names given to the genre. "Sissy" is explicitly an insulting term, which has been partly reclaimed but is still basically a slur, similar to how some black subcultures have reclaimed the word "Ni**er", but it's still an unforgivable slur to the majority; the alternate term "trap" carries connotations of deception, that the boy is attempting to deviously trick straight men into being gay. The Japanese term, "otoko no ko", is a bit hard to explain, but it's a kanji-based play on words- the term "otoko no ko", written with the characters for "male" and "child" usually just means boy, but by changing the "ko" character to the character for "daughter" or less-commonly "girl" (normally read "musume" but can also be read as "ko") it becomes "male daughter" or less-commonly "male girl", which is a much more neutral, almost accepting term. In western-developed games it's almost always the player character who transitions from a man to a "sissy", often unwillingly and usually with chemically, surgically or magically-induced physical transformation, and the usual emphasis is on humiliation and the "sissy" submitting to either "real" masculine men or dominant women. Japanese games are more likely to have a normal male character as the protagonist with the already fully-transitioned otoko no ko (usually just a girly cross-dresser, not someone who is physically transitioning at all) as the love interest, and in cases where the otoko no ko is the protagonist and starts out fully male (e.g Otomeido Cafe) they usually still romance with other otoko no ko characters and their character arc is simply coming to terms with the fact that they're gay and like looking pretty and feminine. Possibly I'm reading too much into this, but there seems to be an unavoidable undercurrent of homophobia in most western "sissy" porn games that's absent in Japanese ones, treating transgenderism as a dirty, shameful thing to get off on as part of a humiliation fetish, similar to netorare, while the appeal of otoko no ko games is simply that otoko no ko are beautiful and erotic.
Expanding on Stemwinder's comments about western trap games vs Japanese ones, I think it speaks to differences in perception of cross-dressing or transexual men. It's even in the names given to the genre. "Sissy" is explicitly an insulting term, which has been partly reclaimed but is still basically a slur, similar to how some black subcultures have reclaimed the word "Ni**er", but it's still an unforgivable slur to the majority; the alternate term "trap" carries connotations of deception, that the boy is attempting to deviously trick straight men into being gay. The Japanese term, "otoko no ko", is a bit hard to explain, but it's a kanji-based play on words- the term "otoko no ko", written with the characters for "male" and "child" usually just means boy, but by changing the "ko" character to the character for "daughter" or less-commonly "girl" (normally read "musume" but can also be read as "ko") it becomes "male daughter" or less-commonly "male girl", which is a much more neutral, almost accepting term. In western-developed games it's almost always the player character who transitions from a man to a "sissy", often unwillingly and usually with chemically, surgically or magically-induced physical transformation, and the usual emphasis is on humiliation and the "sissy" submitting to either "real" masculine men or dominant women. Japanese games are more likely to have a normal male character as the protagonist with the already fully-transitioned otoko no ko (usually just a girly cross-dresser, not someone who is physically transitioning at all) as the love interest, and in cases where the otoko no ko is the protagonist and starts out fully male (e.g Otomeido Cafe) they usually still romance with other otoko no ko characters and their character arc is simply coming to terms with the fact that they're gay and like looking pretty and feminine. Possibly I'm reading too much into this, but there seems to be an unavoidable undercurrent of homophobia in most western "sissy" porn games that's absent in Japanese ones, treating transgenderism as a dirty, shameful thing to get off on as part of a humiliation fetish, similar to netorare, while the appeal of otoko no ko games is simply that otoko no ko are beautiful and erotic.
https://tfgames.site/index.php?module=viewgame&id=1698
As the name implies the premise is that the MC reaches the afterlife and, due to a series of shenanigans, has to pretend to be a girl to live in an all-girls dorm while working as a ghostbuster of sorts. It's not nearly as far along as those but there's probably a good 5 hours' worth of material and the characters are quite fun.
Actually I just remembered another one while talking about this one: https://tfgames.site/index.php?module=viewgame&id=1281. It's a bit memey and I think it'll likely go for a full involuntary gender swap at some point but it's very well-made for a western RPG Maker game and the trap content it's focused on so far is aces.
There's certainly a large cultural difference at play.
I wouldn't say "sissy" has been reclaimed by anyone - it's an age old insult that still gets used and all that's really happened here is a lean into it as a fetish, making a turn on out of extreme insulting emasculation/humiliation - and that's the difference between it and traps/otoko no ko. As you say one is a silly pun and the other came about in a similar way: people stumbling across otoko no ko art started using that old Admiral Ackbar meme as a joke response until they just came to be known as traps (in the sense of landmines one can walk into while searching for things to masturbate to). There's no inherent insult being references in these, both names are playing off the idea that the androgynous boy is so cute or pretty that he can easily pass for a girl, it's not presented as a source of shame.
So sissies do come with that whole unfortunate bearing down on the idea that because they're such wusses they should get bullied into dressing like some slutty girl and made to service "real" men. There's a whole background of macho behavior and glamorization of it that's at play (as well that that undercurrent of homophobia that you mentioned). Many asian counties on the other hand have a history of androgyny being seen as one sort of beauty ideal - something the west just doesn't have an equivalent for. It's a gap between possibility for positive framing for it and almost exclusively negative framing.
Don't wanna start up anything, but since your mentioning talking about what is or isn't a slur... As a trans-woman I can plainly tell you that "Trap" is insulting. Trap and Sissy both are drenched in derogatory and negative history. Nothing about either was ever meant to be 'beautiful' and there was never any connection to this so called 'appreciation for androgyny.' Please don't pretend like EITHER of these words are 'reclaimed.' They are slurs, plain and simple. (I wasn't going to mention anything on this thread due to how I assume this stuff is just not known but I'd rather not call 'trap' a nice term.)
Oh, I'm very sorry to hear that. I think I got the wrong impression from the number of gay transvestite men I've seen unironically call themselves "sissies" or "traps"- but of course, not everyone speaks for the entire group, the same way a lot of black people don't approve of "gangsta" types addressing each other as "ni**a". In all honesty, I hope I don't offend you if I disagree, but I do think "trap" at least has come to be used in a non-offensive way by people who don't have any problem with, or even are attracted to, feminine men (CoC and TiTS, for example, both refer to characters like Rubi or Able, distinct from actual MtF characters like Embry, as "trappy" in an affectionate manner), and for what it's worth "trap" isn't to the best of my knowledge used to describe actual transwomen at all, but only gay transvestite men who don't actually identify as female. That said, there's the one important thing that a lot of people don't realise or understand, which I think needs a paragraph break to make sure it doesn't get lost in the text block:
What a lot of people don't grasp these days, and the main cause of the "political correctness gone mad" bullshit that has become so prevalent, is that it doesn't matter whether or not you think something is offensive, it only matters what the person who is offended thinks. If you say something that someone else finds offensive, you don't have the right to tell them "Don't be offended". You can't say to someone "I didn't intend to offend you" and then expect them to not take offence when you continue doing the thing that offended them, just because you don't "intend" it. Even people within the same group don't get to dictate to others in the group how they should all feel because even within a group everyone is different- if one MtF transexual doesn't mind being called a "trap", that doesn't mean they get to tell another one that they just have to "deal with it" even if they do mind. They're not being thin-skinned or a snowflake; you're just being a jerk by thinking you can dictate to others how they should feel about themselves. So even if you call someone a trap in an affectionate manner, if they find it insulting you should stop because their feelings actually matter. The problems with society today largely come down to large groups of people thinking that how other people feel or what they want doesn't matter.
Phew, sorry for getting on my soapbox for a bit there, I've been hoping to get that off my chest for a while. But pragmatically speaking, I think it would help if we could agree on a shorthand term for attractive feminine gay males who like to look like women that is definitely non-offensive. I think the main reason "trap" has become so widespread is largely down to it being a very short (4 letters) easy term to remember- honestly I'm bi, but I can't even remember what comes next in the sequence after LGBTQI (Lesbian Gay Bi Transexual Queer Intergender...um) and I can't think of another shorter term for them (not "transwoman" because they're NOT transwomen). Does anyone know a good one that won't offend anybody?
It certainly can be! What is or isn't a slur is really all about context. For transgendered people there's that old negative stereotype, buried deep in the old gay panic homophobia, that they're trying to "trick" people into having sex with them. The characters being referenced by the term here aren't transgendered themselves but the whole idea of them being a trap that straight guys can fall into at least references the idea. This lack of positive context for such things in western culture is exactly what we're talking about and why it's hard to find western-made content that isn't inherently insulting to either androgynous boys (traps/otoko no ko) or transgendered women.
Exposure to these otoko no ko characters in Japanese media is bleeding over -some- appreciation, even if it's purely sexual for some, but without that appreciation for androgynous beauty that can be found in many asian cultures it's slow going. "Trap" characters are probably a step forward, however small, in getting away from the negativity of the sissy male dynamic - but certainly no one should refer to transgendered people with the word. It's one of those words, like shemale, that should really be reserved exclusively for talking about fictional characters.
Something I was thinking about discussing before the conversation got a bit redirected is about the prevalence of androgyny and transgender acceptance in Asian cultures- not just Japanese, but most famously Thai culture where the Kathoey subculture (which includes both transgender women and feminine gay men) is legally recognised as a "3rd gender". And in Japan, the acknowledgement of androgynous beauty predates the modern "otoko no ko" scene by a long, LONG way, dating back to kabuki theatre, where all female roles were played by men. Incidentally, I think it's a fascinating contrast that the same thing was done in England where women acting on the stage was seen as obscene, even criminal (remember this was central to the plot of Shakespeare In Love?) and all female roles were similarly played by young men or boys, but there was no similar acceptance of androgyny. I'd ascribe it to Christianity being so condemning of homosexuality, something completely absent from Asian cultures.
First, to be clear, I hope that discussing this will let any adult-game creators or players see a bit more about how 'trap' and 'sissy' affect people in real life. I hope I am not starting anything angry, and if I am please tell me to stop.
All I am saying is that you wouldn't use the n-word and try to say it's fine due to it being used in a purely sexual sense. "Trap" is the equivalent to that for trans people. And I can assure you that it isn't doing anyone any favors. As seen in the video I linked, a former KKK grand-wizard was using the term. A trans star-craft player constantly gets called as such. Multiple celebrities that are also trans get refer to as that. There's the entire "trans panic" defense.
What I am basically saying is that there is no 'appreciation' for 'androgyny/trans' people in Asian culture that connects with these words. (See "One night, Hot springs" and "Last day of spring" that detail the struggles of a trans-woman in Japan.) Asian culture isn't nearly as nice as you seem to believe. (Again, see the two games I linked to. Unlike 'The West' where you have to go through hoops to transition, but can in the end... The MC had to leave Japan fully to transition and even then can't have her ID card changed to reflect her true gender.)
The best outcome of any of this is referring to these categories with specific wording (Such as the aforementioned "Josou" which shouldn't be a problem if this is so Japan focused. That'd mean others would understand the word fine.) and remove the context of 'fake woman.' Otherwise, your still just using words that are currently seen by the community as offensive and used against the community to offend.
I really like Fenoxo forums and the adult games here, and I know that 90% of the time this stuff is NOT out of malice or hate what so ever. But having to bow your head down repeatedly and pretend a word is fine does get tiring. I know I can't change the forums rules and many would take unkindly to that, but I do wish to atleast educate. I think I will end here in fear that I may be sounding too aggressive.
All I am saying is that you wouldn't use the n-word and try to say it's fine due to it being used in a purely sexual sense. "Trap" is the equivalent to that for trans people. And I can assure you that it isn't doing anyone any favors. As seen in the video I linked, a former KKK grand-wizard was using the term. A trans star-craft player constantly gets called as such. Multiple celebrities that are also trans get refer to as that. There's the entire "trans panic" defense.
What I am basically saying is that there is no 'appreciation' for 'androgyny/trans' people in Asian culture that connects with these words. (See "One night, Hot springs" and "Last day of spring" that detail the struggles of a trans-woman in Japan.) Asian culture isn't nearly as nice as you seem to believe. (Again, see the two games I linked to. Unlike 'The West' where you have to go through hoops to transition, but can in the end... The MC had to leave Japan fully to transition and even then can't have her ID card changed to reflect her true gender.)
The best outcome of any of this is referring to these categories with specific wording (Such as the aforementioned "Josou" which shouldn't be a problem if this is so Japan focused. That'd mean others would understand the word fine.) and remove the context of 'fake woman.' Otherwise, your still just using words that are currently seen by the community as offensive and used against the community to offend.
I really like Fenoxo forums and the adult games here, and I know that 90% of the time this stuff is NOT out of malice or hate what so ever. But having to bow your head down repeatedly and pretend a word is fine does get tiring. I know I can't change the forums rules and many would take unkindly to that, but I do wish to atleast educate. I think I will end here in fear that I may be sounding too aggressive.
Japan is a very odd country. It's very much a culture of extremes- on one side almost insanely liberal and open about things, on the other ridiculously conservative, even backwards, and sometimes they clash in really quite absurd ways. Have you ever noticed how Japan makes without doubt THE most extreme, sick, depraved and disgusting pornography in the entire world (pedophilia is basically treated as something mildly embarrassing to roll your eyes about)... but they also have to censor it? So you can have a H-game with content like something out of an over-the-top telling of The Aristocrats where they still bleep out the word "pussy" and put a bunch of pixels over the genitalia because it's "obscene". It makes no sense.
Part of the difference is that, in the west, transsexualism/transgenderism is the only context for it. That in itself reflects the rigidity and rejection of androgyny (or ambiguity) as an acceptable, much less desirable, state of being. As a result most transgendered individuals themselves have no desire to be androgynous or to be seen that way, they want to embody the look of their target gender and learn to integrate as much as they can into it.
Several asian cultures on the other hand have a history of androgynous archetypes. Jash mentioned the infamous Thai ladyboys, you brought up the josou danshi fashion trend (not to mention bishounen, otoko no ko, and others) - in other words there's more cultural acceptance of the idea of men in particular looking and acting this way. This is part of the reason, along with strong conservative cultural forces in regards to gender roles, that there's less push for and acceptance of transgenderism and its practice of using hormones in Japan. In Thailand on the other hand there's plenty of acceptance when it comes to hormonal therapy and cosmetic surgery but the cultural context for them was in place long before these techniques were easily available. Kathoey aren't "intruding" or "betraying" one gender or the other as it's often seen in the west.
It's an interesting subject that produces as many interpretations of the phenomenon as there are cultures themselves. The pashtuns of Afghanistan are fascinating for how these things fit into an even more deeply misogynistic and homophobic culture than Europe and America have: https://info.publicintelligence.net/HTT-PashtunSexuality.pdf. The pashtuns, "beardless boys", are preyed upon by older Afgan men. As the female form is considered inherently sinful having these young pretty boys dress and act as girls is not seen as either homosexual or a sinful out-of-wedlock affair with a girl. Often the boy's older lover will then have the boy marry into the family. The report is meant to teach American soldiers about what, to them, seemed "a very gay culture" and how this behavior comes about largely as a result of isolating women so much from all manner of social activity.
So how we view other cultures does have to come with a degree of understanding and a dialing back of the attitude that our way is the right way and how well they're treating our ideas is the measure of how progressive or regressive they are. We can look at Japan and balk at how they treat transgendered women but they can and do the same when our sissy nonsense is presented as some equivalent to their crossplayers.
In any realistic sense we can't get away from words like that, they're part of the vernacular, they are what they are for cultural reasons, so the best thing to do is simply to try and make distinctions where we can and when we can, i.e. a trap is not a sissy is not a transgendered woman is not a ladyboy.
I don't feel as though you were coming off as aggressive, by the way, I think we ended up having a pretty thoughtful discussion of these things, what they mean to different people, and how they can affect others.
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This turned out to be a far more interesting discussion than I was expecting! I feel the only perspective that hasn't been mentioned is that of the non-binaries (such as myself) who may actively try and present qualities from multiple (or no) genders without viewing themselves as being of that gender. As such there are some people who aim for androgyny, but this is an option denied to people wanting to transition on official documents (at least in those countries that require you to demonstrate that you have "committed" to your transition in the eyes of an external authority before you are allowed to legally do so.)
If I may attempt to add my own understanding:
- "trap" is a slur, and reflective of assumed attempts to deceive rather than express
- "sissy" is a fetishising combination of homophobia and misogny
- many cultures have more than two genders (not counting non-binary people) but this isn't represented in the sorts of games that appear here
- gender roles vary wildly between cultures
- pornography has a habit of using slurs for people who aren't cis-gendered white men
- there's a bias in media / pornography (and quite possibly also in the medical community) on mtf rather than ftm transitions
How to people feel about "femboi" as a term? Or "gurl"? (Which has also been claimed by some parts of the male gay community.) Are there other terms for androgynous people / masculine women / feminine men that haven't been mentioned? I want to make games that explore this, and my own relationship with it, but the nomenclature is tricky.
If I may attempt to add my own understanding:
- "trap" is a slur, and reflective of assumed attempts to deceive rather than express
- "sissy" is a fetishising combination of homophobia and misogny
- many cultures have more than two genders (not counting non-binary people) but this isn't represented in the sorts of games that appear here
- gender roles vary wildly between cultures
- pornography has a habit of using slurs for people who aren't cis-gendered white men
- there's a bias in media / pornography (and quite possibly also in the medical community) on mtf rather than ftm transitions
How to people feel about "femboi" as a term? Or "gurl"? (Which has also been claimed by some parts of the male gay community.) Are there other terms for androgynous people / masculine women / feminine men that haven't been mentioned? I want to make games that explore this, and my own relationship with it, but the nomenclature is tricky.
I personally loathe this, especially when paired with "You're a [derogative term] because you like sex and you're enjoying this, so I'm pounding you like the [another derogative term] you are!". Isn't that what the male NPC is enjoying too, thusly making him a [derogative term] too?
...and this, as it feels like baby talk to me. I cringe whenever I see a "boipussy", "yena", "snek", "birb" or "thicc" used unironically... Ditto for "doggo"-"pupper"/"catte", for example.
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I agree with you on "boipussy" and "thicc" is a bit meme-y, but "snek" and "birb" are just cutesy internet-speak terms for snake and bird which I associate more with lolcats-type stuff than anything else (e.g this sort of thing) rather than porn or sexuality, and I've never even heard of "yena" before...
Porn does have a bad habit of starkly exposing all the dirty laundry of whatever culture it's from. That's also why the terms are so silly and its absurdity often rides a line between sexy and funny.
Owing to that I think if you're going to make a porn game you either have to lean into it or try to combat it directly. Ignoring or trying to step around the commonly-used words and toxic dynamics just makes their absence more apparent. Sex-writing is so often reductive, trying to boil people down to these basic archetypes - but it doesn't have to be. If you're exploring a particular subject especially.
The standard way of writing sex is pro-normative and anti-abnormal and achieves this through assigning or withdrawing measures of power. So for your bog-standard porn that would be dominant man taking submissive woman as his conquest. It's a male power fantasy, it rubs the male ego, the woman is mostly a mirror to reflect his own virility back at him. This stays in place even if you switch the roles (so standard femdom is about the woman taking the man's rightful power from him and punishing him for not being masculine/virile enough to put her in her place, this is the most basic of basics that display what a macho man and a sissy man are and the device that confirms this is the woman-mirror). So this porn narrative's very basis is about enforcing this way of thinking. Reward manliness, punish effeminateness. Even the silly terms like "boi" are nakedly telling you something: the very maleness of this particular person is being undercut.
You could avoid this entirely but that comes off as ignoring the elephant in the room. If you want to write porn that's pro-abnormal in its presentation then the values and beliefs being put forth as natural, normal, and self-evident need to be confronted in some way.
Owing to that I think if you're going to make a porn game you either have to lean into it or try to combat it directly. Ignoring or trying to step around the commonly-used words and toxic dynamics just makes their absence more apparent. Sex-writing is so often reductive, trying to boil people down to these basic archetypes - but it doesn't have to be. If you're exploring a particular subject especially.
The standard way of writing sex is pro-normative and anti-abnormal and achieves this through assigning or withdrawing measures of power. So for your bog-standard porn that would be dominant man taking submissive woman as his conquest. It's a male power fantasy, it rubs the male ego, the woman is mostly a mirror to reflect his own virility back at him. This stays in place even if you switch the roles (so standard femdom is about the woman taking the man's rightful power from him and punishing him for not being masculine/virile enough to put her in her place, this is the most basic of basics that display what a macho man and a sissy man are and the device that confirms this is the woman-mirror). So this porn narrative's very basis is about enforcing this way of thinking. Reward manliness, punish effeminateness. Even the silly terms like "boi" are nakedly telling you something: the very maleness of this particular person is being undercut.
You could avoid this entirely but that comes off as ignoring the elephant in the room. If you want to write porn that's pro-abnormal in its presentation then the values and beliefs being put forth as natural, normal, and self-evident need to be confronted in some way.
And given that those concepts are relative, the end results may wildly vary. Though I enjoy humour in smut, overusage of goofy desriptors make me shake my head as much as medical ones do.
Way too often, if you ask me. I have a hard time finding erotica that caters to my interests, as I couldn't care less about the concepts of power, punishments or virility. Yet here we are, endlessly chiming to some "x belittles y for being lacking" plot even in supposedly vanilla pieces. Either I am sorely unlucky, or it happens in both Western and Japanese pieces. Perhaps I'd be happier if I saw it as a kink that has hordes of fans
Tough to get away from power-trading, it's fundamental to just about everything involving sex, but it can be done in ways that establish but don't harp on it (or trade it without any sort of humiliation or punishment being involved).
If y'all could just go back to giving OP links to games with traps and fembois, that'd be swell.
lol i was actually going to say, it wasn't my intention to start a debate here haha.
I have some male characters I've created for my game Magi, but I don't currently have m/m content completed. I have a patreon tier that allows for custom characters, and a lot more as well.
https://forum.fenoxo.com/threads/magi-episode-1-part-1-animation-2d-gender-variation.18015/
https://forum.fenoxo.com/threads/magi-episode-1-part-1-animation-2d-gender-variation.18015/
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That is completely wrong. It doesn't matter how few or how many, who does or who doesn't, who says or who says'nt... what matters is that nobody and nothing has a higher claim to our lives than we do. We have and are free will choice, freedom and infinite, unlimited consciousness and potential. If we want to express the more conscious aspects of ourselves, then so long as someone isn't being violent, coercive or manipulative, they can do whatever the fuck they want.
I say "be as offended as you like, I don't give a shit". How we personally feel about something is entirely our own responsibility, NOT that of whoever says something that we either like or dislike. If someone calls someone else anything, even if one does it blindly or out of sheer ignorance, it it entirely within their right to call you whatever the fuck they want. As is your right as well. How the person feels about it is their choice. You can choose to be a spineless wimp and "oh, noes, my feewings" or you can choose to be a strong and independent individual and just say "i don't give a shit, I know myself and who I am.".
Also, if someone doesn't have a right, then nobody has that right. If someone does have a right, then anyone has that right. I'm talking about what some would call "natural rights", regardless of what political parasites put on paper (which is literally them just claiming to "own" the population, which is tyranny and slavery - fuck that bullshit)
Besides, if someone actually accuses you of something or criticises you, if it pertinent to take into consideration and actually discern whether or not it applies to you. Often nowadays (thought not always), people get offended by something they hear because they're afraid it "might" apply to them, if they think about it, and they're afraid to face themselves to see if that is or isn't the case. When we know something doesn't apply to us because we deeply and clearly know ourselves, we won't give a shit what anyone says. And if we see that a bit of some criticism may or does apply, we can use that as a way of learning more about ourselves and improving. We'll look at the actual meaning and intent behind the words, without being blinded by anything; and that's what matters: the intent and energy with which something is being said, the "why" behind the "what and how".
Besides, think of the whole hippochrisy of the PC movement. Someone tells you you're a fag, sissy piece of shit. If you had any smidget of self-respect, you wouldn't let yourself affected by it. Besides, so long as they're not actually physically harassing, being violent towards you or trying to impose upon you, they're, well... not being violent. If they are being actualy violent in any way, you have the natural right to retaliate. If you, however, want to censor them and are okay with them being given tickets or being thrown in jail (firstly, as all government is slavery by design) just for saying something you don't like, you're the one who's trying to impose and are okay with violence being carried out.
I agree that you shouldn't force people to "not be offended". Likewise, it would be just as idiotic to try and force people to "be offended" by something, or to try and coerce people into silence because "oh, my feewings". You can, however, criticise someone (preferably in constructive manners) and that is pertinent to be done. Fuck your feelings. Grow a spine! You have a right to have them, but so does everyone else. Once again, I say "be as offended as you like, I don't give a shit" and I will never shut up, especially if I think and know I have something conscious, wise and pertinent to say. Freedom of expression for everyone (yes, everyone, no matter if you agree with them or not) trumps all personal and ego-based "feewings" about what's being said or implied.
Yes, nobody has the right to dictate what you should or shouldn't feel. Likewise, nobody has the right to dictate what you should or shouldn't say. You can, however, point out the bullshit of someone's own mentality and show them their inconsistencies and weaknesses, as well as their strengths and capabilities, so that they are more equipped with the information to become a better person and living being.
What every individual thinks, feels and does always matters, but that applies to every individual, no matter who they are. You're offended by something I say? Tough balls. Deal with it. I don't like what you're saying? Again, I am responsible for how I feel, not you or anyone else. Nobody ever "offends" anyone. We are the ones who choose to feel offended or to not give a shit.
Apathy is indeed a problem, but pandering to one's ego and vanity is definitely the same issue, just with a reverse facade. Censorship (including politeness and etiquette, which are just euphemisms for dishonesty) is just a prelude to, and an edifice of slavery and tyranny. Whether you're a slave to your own ego (vanity and conceit) or a slave to someone else's (humility, shy-ness, etc), you're still a slave.
Any genuinely honest living being will never seek to censor or impose, and will definitely always retaliate against such bullshit. When we love, respect, know and comprehend ourselves (incarnately and veyond incarnation), we'll naturally tend to have that kind of approach towards everyone else, as well. If you don't love yourself, you won't know how to love another. Only when we love and know ourselves, will we know how to love and know another. And GENUINE HONESTY is one of the bigger expressions of love and respect, towards ourselves and others.
We are all and always naturally and infinitely free to think, feel, say, do, be and choose whatever we want... and if we want to express the more conscious aspects of ourselves, and actually live in a world where the society can accurately say that it's a freedom oriented civilisation, then with the addition of "without any imposition of any kind; neither by us upon others, nor by others upon us."
In other words, live and let live. Do no harm, but take no shit.
We are all and always free will, freedom, imagination, will and intent... infinity, unlimitedness and veyond... among other things, etc....
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