Champion’s life expectancy

[Falken_Moonlight]

It’s more a lore wise question really…
I started as a Lupine, we know that Lupines live for 55 to 80 years according to the codex.
Kitsune however live from 80 to 150 years.

does morphing between species would actually increase or decrease one’s life?

also as the Champion of Keros, would it mean that we could live Longer than 150? Matching a divine blood Den Mother like Kiyoko or Kinu?

 

[CasualAntlerEnjoyer]

Always loved the thought of this. You're a proud long lived race, decide to eat one too many foodstuffs, morph into part doge or whatever and just instantly keel over because your lifespan just dropped those last 60 years you were supposed to get.

And champ transforms so easily too, all it would take is one unlucky edible for them to shift races. Hopefully they learn to photosynthesize when they get up there in years.

 

[WolframL]

Normal TFs are largely cosmetic and will not affect the Champ's lifespan one way or another. You can see Tobs also mentioning this in a linked Discord screenshot here, and Aly explained on Discord why the soulbind TFs are the exception to this rule. The Valkyrie codex entry makes a point of this as well.

Kiyoko has a conversation variation if the Champ becomes a kitsune that explicitly acknowledges that you're both now likely to have a similar lifespan and much as the Valkyrie codex implies the same for a Valkchamp and Ryn, one imagines that a similar conversation will eventually be written for her to acknowledge it.

 

[Sacremas]

Theoretically a Champ that goes full demon at the end would meanwhile be more or less ageless from then. Though the question remains how much of "them" really remains after that particular TF.

 

[Shrike675]

looks at the demon tfs that can be bought/found

 

[Sacremas]

That's just skin-deep, half my toons end up Demonmorph, more than any other race than Human or Elf probably (with Salamander a bit behind that in turn). But it gets a bit annoying that so few reacts to my appearance (Annika not being happy with it made me so happy actually), leading Etheryn around the Winter City on romantic dates as my two foot demon tongue slobbers around my food and my four demon wings flop around as my couple of giant demon dicks probably flop around as well, and everyone's just so happy for me getting all those evil demons out of the city.

 

[The Observer]

Theoretically a Champ that goes full demon at the end would meanwhile be more or less ageless from then.

No one actually knows the lifespan of a demon because they haven't existed long enough for anyone to find out.

People need to remember the whole hoo-hah in Mareth was merely a couple of decades ago.

 

[Sacremas]

For some reason I keep thinking that was centuries ago or something, but of course there's mortals in COC1 that remembers a time before the demons.

Even so though, going by all the other benefits the demons have, like no issues with the cold in the rift, nor apparently pressure or not being able to breathe in the Abyss, plus their inherent shapeshifting abilities in theory making the natural aging process sort of pointless (the reason why Mystique in Marvel are functionally immortal and at least 150+ years old due to it... Marvel mutations aren't a good source for biological knowledge though, but the theory is good), functionally immortal seems like an obvious part of the trade.

 

[cloer]

That's just skin-deep, half my toons end up Demonmorph, more than any other race than Human or Elf probably (with Salamander a bit behind that in turn). But it gets a bit annoying that so few reacts to my appearance (Annika not being happy with it made me so happy actually), leading Etheryn around the Winter City on romantic dates as my two foot demon tongue slobbers around my food and my four demon wings flop around as my couple of giant demon dicks probably flop around as well, and everyone's just so happy for me getting all those evil demons out of the city.

I mean, if we start to acknowledge stuff like that, I don't thing dragging a pair of barrelsized testicles around is particularly practical either.

I mean, with the horse and doggy dongs, the retreat into sheats so that's my had canon for them not getting in the way despite their size, but races where that stuff just hangs out...

"Look, there goes Dickwalker McBarrelnuts. Judging by the drag marks in the dirt, he just came from the temple."


As for the lifespan stuff, I think the champion might actually have become close to biologically immortal. Thanks to the magic bubble bath from the beginning of the game, it is stated that their body has become so malleable, that even eating the wrong thing carelessly can transform their body. I would argue, that this might be because their body's cells have shifted closer to a state of being stemcells, so they can switch to become different type of cells. I think that implies that their cells are either immune to aging and decaying, or that the process of cell renewal isn't limited anymore and suffer little to no degradation, especially the moment they undergo transformation into something else.

Well, of course it could also mean that the champion's cells are volatile and at some point an unexpected transformation due to an undercooked harpy egg for breakfast might trigger prompt cellular degeneration and we get the "biomass puddle" bad end

 

[Sacremas]

I swear one of these days my race is going to read "Cancermorph" with the special ability of negative -100 to all resistances...

But yeah for the barrel-sized testicles or tits, I feel like if you didn't get Unburdened perk from Evergreen, those should always impose a movement penalty on you at the very least once they reach a certain size.

Though, I would have personally preferred if there were hard-coded top sizes for most things in this game, so testicles just cap out at basketball sized, which is still hideously swollen by any measure we'd put to it, and no doubt capable of bukkaking half the winter palace with some Virility boosters, but at least theoretically possible to still move around, if slowly. Dicks, hard cap of 30 in, regardless of Centaur Pack shenanigans or similar. Tits, once they reach around Q-cups that's it, you're cowed out. Something about your body just rejecting further size transformations because it would potentially immobilize you or something like that.

 

[WolframL]

As for the lifespan stuff, I think the champion might actually have become close to biologically immortal.

Nope. If this were the case, the gods who offer soulbinding wouldn't need to make a deal with the goddess of death to get you an altered lifespan. Here's the conversation I mentioned from Discord before:

 

[Sacremas]

I know it's not coming and those three are the only ones that'll give it, but for the record I would have really loved a Tiran TF as well, into something like an undead possibly, like a Dulhallan like Tui, a Vampire like the Baroness totally isn't I swear, or a Death Knight. Though doing undead stuff to the Champ might do weird things to their childmaking bits..

 

[Alypia]

Tira opposes the undead. She's the goddess of making sure that people don't stay beyond their appointed time.

 

[CasualAntlerEnjoyer]

. If this were the case, the gods who offer soulbinding wouldn't need to make a deal with the goddess of death to get you an altered lifespan.

Spoiler: Typical Cocktarnation of Mirrors quest spoilers

It's not like that's an actual deal with something governing the lifespan of every living being, the super larpers are lords of their domains in name only, whilst also being far from omniscient in matters related to said domains. That's on top of being very apathetic about most worldly matters to begin with, so said deal was likely just informing of the lifespan modification to begin with, purely so Tira can cover her own ass if some mortal pleb asks her something of it.

---

Anyway, the whole lifespan drama is why the real life-goal for a champ is lichdom. Live forever without affiliating yourself with one of 2 groups of supernatural amoral idiots, keep your soul safe yet outside of your body so you benefit from not turning into cthulu every time you drink soup, keep said soul safely out of the hands of demonic clowns if you know how to get crafty with hiding it, and most importantly your very existence will nettle Tira so she can send paladins for you to beat up for bragging rights.

Biggest downside is being a funny skeleton now, but your a powerful death mage so you can probably manifest in an incorporeal ghost body that looks just like you did whilst alive except it's glowing or whatever to get down to aesthetically and morally tasteful shagging.

Then if you ever get tired of immortality you just smash your soul phylactery and pass on to whatever afterlife may or may not exist in this bleak land.

 

[Sacremas]

Tira opposes the undead. She's the goddess of making sure that people don't stay beyond their appointed time.

Oh. Yeah, never mind, lol.

I'd still like something undead at some point, most likely as a perm-TF (Romancing the Baroness and letting her give you her secret for example), which also causes "Soulbind" type effects that makes dealing with the gods or romancing Kas no longer an option, and disabling most of the TFs like with Keros but giving some abilities in return. It would be an interesting "evil" path that opposes Kas, because you like this world and want to keep it as it is... just under your heel. The Doctor Doom/Lex Luthor type of Lawful Evil where your character becomes a savior for very selfish reasons. But maybe that would be out of scope of this game/setting.

EDIT: Actually, never mind, the Baroness, whatever she might otherwise be, is clearly not evil, so that's a poor reason for an undead-anything path. Oh well.

 

[WolframL]

Spoiler: Typical Cocktarnation of Mirrors quest spoilers

It's not like that's an actual deal with something governing the lifespan of every living being, the super larpers are lords of their domains in name only, whilst also being far from omniscient in matters related to said domains. That's on top of being very apathetic about most worldly matters to begin with, so said deal was likely just informing of the lifespan modification to begin with, purely so Tira can cover her own ass if some mortal pleb asks her something of it.

Spoiler: Likewise

Given that Tobs has described the ascension of the Seven as involving a metaphysical feedback loop where they were shaped by what people believed their gods to be like and how they ended up in charge of things that had existed and been associated with those gods before they came on the scene... don't be so sure. They may not be the original gods (whatever they may have been) but that doesn't mean they're just putting on a pantomime.

And frankly, I'll take Aly's word that a deal has to be made over your speculation any day of the week. When it comes to lore, she knows things that we don't.

 

[redlightnin55]

I know it's not coming and those three are the only ones that'll give it, but for the record I would have really loved a Tiran TF as well, into something like an undead possibly, like a Dulhallan like Tui, a Vampire like the Baroness totally isn't I swear, or a Death Knight. Though doing undead stuff to the Champ might do weird things to their childmaking bits..

The public design document quite literally calls the Baroness a "cumpire."

Though with that said, it seems little else about her entry in it has been utilized in meaningful ways. Not that I'm criticizing--I'm rather intrigued and amused by it. It's interesting to see the original intent and ideas vs. where we are now.

The Hive Knight is a particularly interesting entry considering how much I've spent talking about Azy the last day or two.

 

[Sacremas]

Anyway, the whole lifespan drama is why the real life-goal for a champ is lichdom. Live forever without affiliating yourself with one of 2 groups of supernatural amoral idiots, keep your soul safe yet outside of your body so you benefit from not turning into cthulu every time you drink soup, keep said soul safely out of the hands of demonic clowns if you know how to get crafty with hiding it, and most importantly your very existence will nettle Tira so she can send paladins for you to beat up for bragging rights.

Biggest downside is being a funny skeleton now, but your a powerful death mage so you can probably manifest in an incorporeal ghost body that looks just like you did whilst alive except it's glowing or whatever to get down to aesthetically and morally tasteful shagging.

Then if you ever get tired of immortality you just smash your soul phylactery and pass on to whatever afterlife may or may not exist in this bleak land.

While I like the lich idea, I feel like either becoming a walking skeleton or a ghost would sort of be counterproductive to sex stuff, which is kinda a big part of the game, and why I was veering towards a vampire (or "cumpire", I guess) or Dulhallan or similar more "living" undead.

As an alternative, maybe the Xianxia guys wouldn't mind cribbing some concepts; in that mod for COC1 there's one character called Alvina (IIRC) that refers to herself as a "devil" rather than a demon, she has a long backstory that really conflicts with official lore by now as per how Kas explains how things turned out in Mareth, but she has this interesting magical ritual where you get a phylactery like a lich, but you remain mortal, in an effort to get some of the demon benefits without the loss of self-control that follows being a soulless demon. Some similar way to Secure Your Soul (coming to you from Arasaka Corp any millennia now) might be an alternative to either Kas or the gods, while still keeping your dangly bits in proper configuration for fun times.

 

[cloer]

Eh, no one can tell you more about boning than a skellington, tho.

 

[Sacremas]

If nothing else, you'd be a big hit among lupines probably!

 

[Kingu2]

Spoiler: Likewise

Given that Tobs has described the ascension of the Seven as involving a metaphysical feedback loop where they were shaped by what people believed their gods to be like and how they ended up in charge of things that had existed and been associated with those gods before they came on the scene... don't be so sure. They may not be the original gods (whatever they may have been) but that doesn't mean they're just putting on a pantomime.

And frankly, I'll take Aly's word that a deal has to be made over your speculation any day of the week. When it comes to lore, she knows things that we don't.

Yeah then how do explain Tui and Agni then? What, did Tira just forget about them or something?

I have to agree with with CAE here. much like how our alleged sun goddess can't actually control the sun, and the goddess of secrets can't actually keep a secret I suspect this death goddess has no say whatsoever in when a person dies.

 

[CasualAntlerEnjoyer]

And frankly, I'll take Aly's word that a deal has to be made over your speculation any day of the week.

Spoiler

You wound me.

Though you will have to excuse me for being quite frankly floored if it turns out they're all actually are omniscient in matters of their 'domains'.

Case in point. Mallach needs the River armada to act as vehicles to get out and see the world for kicks. If Tira knows everyone's lifespan and is micromanaging all of that, Mallach would have zero need for an extra pair of eyes and ears because his domain would give him awareness of pretty much everyone ever. He's a passion and sex god, which means any sort of affection or attraction would mean Mallach is directly aware of you on some level. In a world as sex crazed as CoC2? Yeah, Mallach would have eyes on almost everyone 24/7, making the Rivers whole existence and way of acting completely redundant. And that is generally not something you're aiming for with a hidden little reveal like River's was, from a meta standpoint.

Nareva also mentions that she has a hard limit to how much memory she can retain as well, on top of being downright awful at keeping the most important secret of the pantheon.

So Tira specifically needing to be in the know of how long everyone lives would be a bit surprising.

Granted, it could just be multiple writer syndrome at work causing the lore to get shuffled around more then intended with portrayals of he various gods. I assume their scenes are not all written by the same author at least. But I've done group worldbuilding and lore projects before, I know the pain of trying to keep all the information straight consistently between peers.

It's rather admirable, if perhaps overly ambitious, that they even went more lore heavy on this game in the first place with such a challenge to overcome. You've got triple A studios with boards of professional writers who still can't keep from stepping on eachother's toes in the writing department.

 

[WolframL]

Per those same Discord chats, Tui and Agni are both special cases that Tira is less than happy about, because her whole thing is people not living beyond their appointed time. Again, if a writer for the game with access to dev chat (backed up by evidence in the game itself) says that the Champ is mortal and only gets to live longer via soulbinding TFs because your new patron and Tira make a deal, I'm going to accept that over 'but what if...?!' any day of the week.

 

[Helia]

Aging and mortality are actually a fairly fundamental fear of mine, so I hope in the scope of escapist fantasy this game falls into that the Champ and their loved ones are able to keep living happily.

I actually thought that it might be a good idea for Steele in Trials, once they gain control of their company and further their education in business management, endeavour to streamline and universalize anti-agathic treatment production and its distribution so it's as ubiquitous as the vaccine.

People seem to refer to the setting as dystopic, but in a lot of aspects, it personally appears rather hopeful and inspiring, and a lot of the suffering and immorality presented aren't really any more prominent then in real-life, and in some ways it's in a far better state.

 

[CasualAntlerEnjoyer]

(backed up by evidence in the game itself)

Hmmmmmmmmmm

Might I see this evidence? I'm curious. On multiple levels.

 

[Sacremas]

Aging and mortality are actually a fairly fundamental fear of mine, so I hope in the scope of escapist fantasy this game falls into that the Champ and their loved ones are able to keep living happily.

I actually thought that it might be a good idea for Steele in Trials, once they gain control of their company and further their education in business management, endeavour to streamline and universalize anti-agathic treatment production and its distribution so it's as ubiquitous as the vaccine.

People seem to refer to the setting as dystopic, but in a lot of aspects, it personally appears rather hopeful and inspiring, and a lot of the suffering and immorality presented aren't really any more prominent then in real-life, and in some ways it's in a far better state.

Personally I'd pick Savarra any time over living in actual Dark Ages Europe similarly, Kas and her shenanigans included, and some periods of the Godswar aside I'd probably say that for even its darkest periods. Because when things come down to it, very little can be more dystopian than the real world.

(Go away WH40k, you know you don't count in this generalization!)

 

[arch99]

Per those same Discord chats, Tui and Agni are both special cases that Tira is less than happy about, because her whole thing is people not living beyond their appointed time. Again, if a writer for the game with access to dev chat (backed up by evidence in the game itself) says that the Champ is mortal and only gets to live longer via soulbinding TFs because your new patron and Tira make a deal, I'm going to accept that over 'but what if...?!' any day of the week.

idk why you even try to argue with him at this point you know exactly what the response is going to be every time lmao

 

[Ireyon]

Tira opposes the undead. She's the goddess of making sure that people don't stay beyond their appointed time.

Wait, she does? Ooooh, is that the reason why her symbol is an hourglass or something?

Given what we potentially find out about the gods that part seems a bit arrogant though....

Spoiler

Though considering Evergreen's body surf technique she's not nearly as omniscient as one would assume.