[BIG UPDATE] Seeking programmer for CoC-like game

[Aälea]

Listen to the guy above. He's speaking the truth.
I know from experience that creating a "fairly generic, dealing with (up to) 4 Allies + the Player Character versus (up to) 7 baddies " is actually much harder than what you (probably) imagine. It didn't have all the features the post above describes , had no proper enemy AI and still took me 150h to make a barely functional version.
I had no experience so you can probably cut that by 1/3, but that's still a 100 hours time investment for the very basics of a battle system.

I know that you want to focus on the story aspect of your game, but this is not the hard programming part. Displaying text is (mostly) easy. Making the player go from one place to another when he presses a button is easy.
A proper system for enemy AI, one that's not too scripted or random and modifiable? That's a nightmare.
In battle events that are story influenced? This is critical information and really needs to be planned for.

Glad to hear you have some programmers willing to try making this with you. I'll be keeping an eye on how this goes then.

 

[wrdmnr]

Listen to the guy above. He's speaking the truth.
I know from experience that creating a "fairly generic, dealing with (up to) 4 Allies + the Player Character versus (up to) 7 baddies " is actually much harder than what you (probably) imagine. It didn't have all the features the post above describes , had no proper enemy AI and still took me 150h to make a barely functional version.
I had no experience so you can probably cut that by 1/3, but that's still a 100 hours time investment for the very basics of a battle system.

Wheres the big time-sink here? I can't imagine this taking over 20 man-hours.
That is, if we're talking about just the system, no balancing/graphical stuff.

 

[Aälea]

Graphical stuff (I made a UI and player + enemy animations) + mostly inexperience (I just dived into programming saying "I want to make an ATB battle system". I didn't even know how to make an actual menu...).
All for naught it terms of actual product I just made a sub par ATB Battle system but I learned quite a lot.
The hardest part was actually making it easily modifiable after.
I made lots of rookie mistakes, like including damage calculations into the skill instead of making it a global function,... Fun stuff. Also a timesink to fix later.

 

[m0RV]

Wheres the big time-sink here? I can't imagine this taking over 20 man-hours.
That is, if we're talking about just the system, no balancing/graphical stuff.

That’s what my programmer-friends are saying. You know your shit, wrdmnr. (You too, Aälea; that’s the difference between a hardboiled seasoned vet and a new-blood.)

 

[wrdmnr]

My experience in projects has learned me a valuable lesson in programming: You want to orient your development product based.
Make sure you have a product as soon as possible, without compromising on making it modify-able(customers change their minds, you might wanna add stuff).

In this case, the first product you want is a plan. Even if they pull the plug on you, the customer can still use that plan on a later date.
Then you make the simplest implementation that does what the customer wants.(one enemy, attacking, turns health, etc).
Then you add features based on what the customer finds most important, until the product becomes good enough.

Even when not working for a customer I still find it useful to program like this. It helps with making good readable code, and if I decide i'm done, I still have at least something to show off.

 

[m0RV]

My experience in projects has learned me a valuable lesson in programming: You want to orient your development product based.
Make sure you have a product as soon as possible, without compromising on making it modify-able(customers change their minds, you might wanna add stuff).

In this case, the first product you want is a plan. Even if they pull the plug on you, the customer can still use that plan on a later date.
Then you make the simplest implementation that does what the customer wants.(one enemy, attacking, turns health, etc).
Then you add features based on what the customer finds most important, until the product becomes good enough.

Even when not working for a customer I still find it useful to program like this. It helps with making good readable code, and if I decide i'm done, I still have at least something to show off.

Thank you for the advice, wrdmnr, Your dedication to informing me is really cool.

But all that is already underway. Finished a rough write-up of the demo yesterday. Gave it to a few guys. One already has his own custom engine and intends to use the game idea to grow said engine. All this is prior to financial negotiations, of course. Have to make sure a potential partner can deliver the goods.

Things are coming along. (But I still might need your help, wrdmnr, when you get finished with your current project. So look this way first, if you’re vibing on it.)

 

[wrdmnr]

I would tell you that you can always message me if you need advice, but I don't think there's much more to say, unless you want multiplayer, which is a whole other beast.

 

[m0RV]

I would tell you that you can always message me if you need advice, but I don't think there's much more to say, unless you want multiplayer, which is a whole other beast.

No! No, no, no... I wasn’t born yesterday. There’re few things people in the industry fear more than multiplayer implementation... (Let’s not even mention A. I. ...)

And since you offered, I might just PM you sometime, buddy. Have a good meantime.

 

[wrdmnr]

It isn't really that bad. the main issue with multiplayer is if you want:
LAN: free, but a user has to host the server.
V.S.
Server: you gotta host it yourself, but people everywhere can easily join everyone.
and
Peer-to-Peer(democracy): All computers have a say in what is happening.
V.S.
Host(Dictatorship): The host decides what is real and what is not.

There are lots of ways to implement an A.I. I've read some good articles about it. You can make a really smart A.I. without too much effort.
The problem is, is it worth the cost to make the A.I. smart? If it just selects enemies and moves, you can describe the behavior inside the moves(Don't use this move if enemy has full health) and the A.I.(target enemy with least health)

 

[m0RV]

It isn't really that bad. the main issue with multiplayer is if you want:
LAN: free, but a user has to host the server.
V.S.
Server: you gotta host it yourself, but people everywhere can easily join everyone.
and
Peer-to-Peer(democracy): All computers have a say in what is happening.
V.S.
Host(Dictatorship): The host decides what is real and what is not.

There are lots of ways to implement an A.I. I've read some good articles about it. You can make a really smart A.I. without too much effort.
The problem is, is it worth the cost to make the A.I. smart? If it just selects enemies and moves, you can describe the behavior inside the moves(Don't use this move if enemy has full health) and the A.I.(target enemy with least health)

Yeah, you make is sound easy...

 

[wrdmnr]

well I made a chatservice in under 2 hours, with a nickname and /msg system.
A multiplayer game is essentially a really complex version of a chatservice. (the main issue is that internet is not instantaneous and therefore you need to synchronize the worlds on each pc to the rules I explained)

as for AI, i like this video:

but the solution I made in my previous message should work fine in this game. unless you want enemies to roam the map.

I'm just throwing ideas out there. You should focus more on AI then multiplayer of-course. EDIT: whoa, I was not expecting youtube intergration

 

[m0RV]

well I made a chatservice in under 2 hours, with a nickname and /msg system.

*weeps softly at not having wrdmnr’s immediate interest*

[...]the solution I made in my previous message should work fine in this game. unless you want enemies to roam the map.

I'm just throwing ideas out there. You should focus more on AI then multiplayer of-course.

Yeah, your previous idea will work fine. Just want a random chance of encounter at certain locations. A better chance at some places than at others. Easy peasy (for someone who knows A.I.).

 

[wrdmnr]

*weeps softly at not having wrdmnr’s immediate interest*

there there, we all have our good and bad moments, for instance, I finished the first version of my automated coder two days ago(it can't code yet but it does explain existing code in laymen's terms)
But it turns out it doesn't work on his computer! Worst part is, it does work on all the computers I own so I have no idea how to fix it.

 

[m0RV]

there there, we all have our good and bad moments, for instance, I finished the first version of my automated coder two days ago(it can't code yet but it does explain existing code in laymen's terms)
But it turns out it doesn't work on his computer! Worst part is, it does work on all the computers I own so I have no idea how to fix it.

Man...

Good luck with that...

 

[m0RV]

So I’m making a wanted ad for an artist now, because the time’s coming, and soon. So if you’re interested, please go have a look. (I’ll put a link here when I finish it.)

 

[Master]

Unfortunately making an AD for the artist sometimes never works. So I suggest you go out and look for artists. Here I'll even give you one that does commissions: http://www.hentai-foundry.com/user/mavruda/profile

 

[m0RV]

Unfortunately making an AD for the artist sometimes never works.

Really? And here I am having such luck. (Beginner’s luck?) Thanks anyway.

 

[m0RV]

The programmer slot is reopened!

Due to health conditions, our previous script-kiddy is down and out! Poor guy needs plenty of recovery time. God bless him. But if you’re interested in the project, let me know. It’s likely going to be Ren’Py, but feel free to suggest a platform you think would work better. PM me with inquiries or eMail me instead. Make it your New Year’s resolution to make a porn game, and start getting paid what you’re worth!

I’ll update this thread again when the position is filled.

 

[m0RV]

I just want to say a big Merry Christmas to all my friends and everyone who’s been a part of the project so far. I feel a great kinship with you all, and I wanted to say how thankful I am for everything. God bless you folks.

...And a Happy New Year! 2017: Mark it well, for it’s the start of something great in porn gaming!

 

[m0RV]

I think I have the guy for the job, but I’ll just keep the net in the water. Looks like Ren’Py is best for the game. (Free, simple, enough for our needs.) If you’re a programmer who knows the language, this may be your last chance to get involved! Please send me a PM or eMail me (link’s in the OP).

 

[Penumbra]

I don't have the time to work on your project, but you might be interested in my dynamic avatar drawer.
You can test it here

It's a framework for modelling and rendering characters, specifically solving the problem of how clothing can be shown for various body shapes.

If you're insistent on Ren'Py then it probably won't work for you though; it's a JavaScript module.

 

[m0RV]

Penumbra, my friend, thank you for taking the time to post here. As things are, I have little use for your nifty tool. I have a concept artist working to render what I need by hand. However, with some tweaks, this could be useful for the Player-Character in the very, very eventual future, if we happen to use JavaScript in the game. So far it seems unlikely that things’ll go that way. Of the interested parties, most are Python vets, and some use C. I’ve had exactly zero offers from JavaScript people. But again, thank you for taking the time to inform me of your work. Frankly, I like it! I wish I could use it.

If your schedule does happen to open up, PM me sometime. You’re clearly a talented fellow!