Aileh/Child and Kas path

IraMorti

Well-Known Member
Dec 5, 2017
569
724
37
So curious - Does the scenes with your daughter with Aileh that have Kasyrra take into account what path you're on with Kas? Like has anyone taken the hostile path (letting her know you're soulbound) and seen the scenes? Just curious if she gets all short and snubby with you since you ruined her plans, even if you gave her a grandbaby.
 
C

CMGuest

Guest
I'm...I wanted to say on the neutral path, but a quick check on the wiki suggests that might not be a thing any more. My champ's always been on-guard against her because of the whole "I wanna eat your soul" thing, but also recognizes her as well above his weight class so hasn't been directly aggressive against her. I got the "Witness her" event, so I suppose that I'm on the Rivalry path.


And frankly while from a I'm a big fan of redemption arcs, I just can't wrap my head around the idea of treating her as anything but the equivalent of a hungry tiger at this juncture. It boggles me that there's a route in which - with no particular impetus for the decisoon - the champ is expected not to presume that she's a monster that wants to eat his face.

Yes, from a Doyalist perspective I get why the route exists, but considering her impact on the world both directly (the Frost Elves, the centaurs, all the imps and demons...) and by proxy (through the cults), never mind the fact that she keeps reminding the champ that her main interest is eating his soul after it ripens...and of course the whole evident "I wanna take over the world and remake it in my image" thing, I simply don't feel that there's a good Watsonian reason for the guy to be friendly with her or treat her advances as anything other than the same kind of ploy she used to seduce Alissa and Taldahs.

The short version is that Kas more or less sticks to the shadows. She doesn't directly interact with you and only interacts with Aileh off-screen. Ironically enough, for what I say in the spoiler, Aileh provides some of the most humanizing characterization (on this route at least) that we've seen to date. Quick snippet from when Aileh first gives you the news:

Don't get me wrong; I'm sure they're great parental figures, but my fondest memories are of being a dumb knee-hugging brat."

"So you want to bring him or her up around here in the Wayfort?"


Aileh nods — you think she does, her boobs jiggle at least — and plays with your ears. "Mhm, and considering I'm not doing any front-line stuff, she can come with me to work."

"What?! With Kasyrra? Are you actually insane?"

The dragon sighs and lets you sit up, crossing her arms. "She's my mother, absolutely loves... adores kids. If you don't remember, she literally invented the piercings that protect me from demonic influences so that my soul is safe?"

"I'm kind of basically at war with her still, this is asking for a lot of trust from me."
You sigh as well and scratch the back of your head, continuing. "I don't want a child to brought up in a messy situation."

Aileh guides you back down into her lap, nodding. "I get it, I do. But trust me; around a child is probably the only time you'd ever see her dressed. Which is a weird statement, now that I think of it." She snorts and shakes her head, returning to gently scratching your scalp. "Okay, but our whelp does have to visit her gram-grams sometimes. I don't want them to be left alone."

After this it's mostly kinda an open secret that Kas and Aileh are in at least semi-regular contact when you aren't around, and that while you and Kas aren't exactly on the best terms you accept that she's an important part of Aileh's life and apparently a supportive and somewhere between a decent and good mother (and soon to be grandmother), and that it's important for her that Kas be a part of her granddaughter's life. So they mostly visit while you're not around and you do your best to be ok with that.

This does gets disrupted in a rather cute manner towards the end of the pregnancy, when you actually stumble in while Kas is visiting, leading her to briefly hide behind her daughter to compose herself and - in her own words - "get into character" as the unflappably confident protective mother who was only there to make sure that you were treating Aileh well...with heavy overtones of 'pay no attention to the cleaning supplies she's carting off in her dramatic exit, or the tidied up room, or the new baby blanket, or the knitted baby sweater...' Both are wary around each other, but again, not directly aggressive, much to Aileh's gratitude. But as far as I'm seen so far, that's Kas's only direct interaction with the player for this content.
 

IraMorti

Well-Known Member
Dec 5, 2017
569
724
37
There are further scenes, though I've only gotten that far on the Lustful path, i.e. only fucked Kas once and denied her every other time without being overtly hostile. Which is why I'm curious if anyone has taken the Hostile path or the full Romance path and seen variation. In the Lustful path she does subtle flirting with you during the scenes she appears in, but doesn't go farther.
 

WolframL

Well-Known Member
Feb 12, 2020
3,607
5,140
42
And frankly while from a I'm a big fan of redemption arcs, I just can't wrap my head around the idea of treating her as anything but the equivalent of a hungry tiger at this juncture. It boggles me that there's a route in which - with no particular impetus for the decisoon - the champ is expected not to presume that she's a monster that wants to eat his face.

Yes, from a Doyalist perspective I get why the route exists, but considering her impact on the world both directly (the Frost Elves, the centaurs, all the imps and demons...) and by proxy (through the cults), never mind the fact that she keeps reminding the champ that her main interest is eating his soul after it ripens...and of course the whole evident "I wanna take over the world and remake it in my image" thing, I simply don't feel that there's a good Watsonian reason for the guy to be friendly with her or treat her advances as anything other than the same kind of ploy she used to seduce Alissa and Taldahs.
"I can fix him/her!" is a very strong motivator. So is horni. Combine the two and...
 

Shrike675

Well-Known Member
Apr 8, 2021
805
535

Attachments

  • image0.png
    image0.png
    1.9 MB · Views: 152

kiby

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2015
257
291
There are further scenes, though I've only gotten that far on the Lustful path, i.e. only fucked Kas once and denied her every other time without being overtly hostile. Which is why I'm curious if anyone has taken the Hostile path or the full Romance path and seen variation. In the Lustful path she does subtle flirting with you during the scenes she appears in, but doesn't go farther.

Romance Kas is not subtle about her desires during her visits to Aileh (openly staring at you while you show what kind of parent you are, for one), but she controls herself because she puts being a doting mom/grandma ahead of herself.
 
C

CMGuest

Guest
"I can fix him/her!" is a very strong motivator. So is horni. Combine the two and...
As I said, I get the Doylist reason. What I don't get is why - in character, wherein the champ can't make an educated guess about plot armor - the champ would reach that conclusion or conclude that they had enough of a safety net to take that gamble.

To the best of my memory, the Aileh content is the first real crack in her armor that my character has seen that hints at someone genuine behind the corruption. Simply put, I see that content as the start of a foundation for building bridges and reaching an understanding, but even then that's up against things like her handiwork at the Winter City and the Centaur Village, never mind the more general trail of corruption and the havoc wrought by her nominal followers under Tollus.

For the sake of illustration, let's look at the original Star Wars trilogy for a minute. Luke trying to redeem Vader and Vader actually being receptive to the effort is entirely a product of them both learning that they're family and caring deeply about that fact. When Luke confronted Vader in the second film he was driven as much by righteous vengeance as he was the desire to save his friends from what at that point he had every reason to believe was practically evil incarnate. Luke spits "he told me you killed [my father]" in Vader's face with raw hatred for what he'd done, and while he's initially devastated to learn that Vader really was his father, the revelation forces him to rethink everything he thought he knew. Vader was no longer some faceless evil space wizard, he was his father, someone who was once a good man. He was twisted and still acted as an agent of evil, but Luke had to believe that his father was not beyond hope because he refuses to abandon his father to the Dark Side's grasp.

Meanwhile, Vader suddenly realizes that he has someone to love, someone he wasn't aware even existed. He's not as alone as he thought, and he wants his son to be in his life. That cuts deeply into his rage, grief, and fixation on his work, and even if it didn't, the simple fact is that if he wants Luke to survive, he has to restrain himself. Yes, he thinks that the only way to get what he wants is to turn Luke to the Dark Side, but he still indulges in a more tender and proud side that had previously been absent. And that in turn reinforces Luke's belief that there is still good in him, albeit buried. And sure enough when push comes to shove, Vader chooses Luke over even his own life.

...Now imagine that the "I am your father" plot twist never happened. All of a sudden, Vader's redemption arc just doesn't work anymore. Luke doesn't have any personal investment in the outcome that would make him risk himself and everything he's fought for to save Vader, much less a reason to interpret Vader holding back as he tries to turn him to the Dark Side as anything more than a means to that end. And of course on Vader's end, Luke's just one more Jedi to add to the pile of corpses.

And that's what I mean when I say that I don't get the Watsonian reason: Pre-Aileh, I never really saw an "I am your father" moment that encourages us to rethink the trajectory of the relationship before committing to the act apropos of nothing. Yes you could cuddle up to her in the seasonal halloween picnic or knock boots with her in the dream but why would you trust that when seduction is her preferred method of corruption? The events don't feel like a change in trajectory so much as her simply trying a slightly different tactic. Yes, if we treat it as such then playing along means that it ultimately backfires on her, but why would the champ play along rather than suspect a trap? I'm not aware of an event that should make that make sense in-character.

Rather, if anything, her relationship with Aileh and her new grandbaby is that "I am your father" moment for her, that moment that says that yes, she does indeed have a better nature and at least some principles, and that it is not in fact pointless to try and coax those out. ...Which is deliciously ironic, considering that Aileh is only available post-Winter City, wherein you see firsthand how Kas very nearly succeeded in completely toppling the kingdom through her seductions and the corruption that came from them. Never mind how it drew special note to her disdain - if not contempt - for Alissa, who evidently believed that she was on the Kas-Romance path.

And I'm sorry that I'm getting so longwinded here. Suffice it to say that I just enjoy nerding out about storytelling. Regardless, this content makes me hopeful that future content will again show us some cracks in Kas's armor, as those are great character moments that lower the barrier to entry for the romance path.
 

IraMorti

Well-Known Member
Dec 5, 2017
569
724
37
Those cracks in her armor are what kind of give me a sort of morbid curiousity of following the romance path in some playthroughs (i've done some but didn't keep the playthrough to the point where I got this far in the Aileh content) while also choosing soulbinding - we know eventually we'll reach the end of the line of that path as the good Kas and redeem Kas endings will be closed to those who choose to soulbind. I do hope soulbinding can get some sort of good ending regarding Kas, though I feel Aileh will more than likely have to choose between her mother and her heart.