A very specific question about male catfolk
- Thread starter leomax
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AFAIK there is currently no way to balance out the racial score and be a cat boy without having the feline peen. Through save editing I found out that having a human dick with the "nubby" flag works, but there is currently no way to get it. Which is strange since I read in several places on this forum that catfolk peens are supposed to be mostly human and not fully animalistic feline.
Yeah, it's a bit odd because you can remove your ears and still be considered catfolk, which you'd think would be weighted higher than the penis, but that's how the racial score is calculated. I found that out by accident with one of my Champs, along with the fact that TFing your penis to something neither human nor catfolk doesn't change your race so long as you still have all the other catfolk racial traits.
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Huh, that's quite interesting.
To add onto that, I'm curious if the way racial scores are calculated changed at all with the appearance screen rework (as that could be a possible explanation for the above quote by WolframL if that is the case), because from what I've tested myself (or at least from what I remember previously), one used to be able to create a male harpy - as the game would classify a male PC as a Harpy. As of my latest testing it just refers to a male PC as an Elf once the head TF's have occurred (due to the Elfin ears that Harpies have) - so it seems that the Avian arms and legs don't seem to count for anything toward the Harpy score for a male PC. Basically seems like only a female PC can now be classified as a Harpy, even though there is at least somewhat of an implication that there is / would be such a thing as male Harpies via one of the dreams (which I know aren't generally canon, but yeah - even without that, if a male PC was able to be classified as a Harpy previously not sure what changed).
To be fair though, I don't exactly have a screenshot for the prior classification (male PC being classified as a Harpy) from builds prior to the appearance rework, so it's not exactly verifiable. I guess the same would be true for the current male Catfolk interaction (the said interaction reflected in this thread), as there would also be no way to verify if it was different pre-appearance rework (especially so since I never tested it myself).
Aside from that, I've noticed that the "Equine Anus" that the PC can get is also seemingly not something that counts towards racial scores (I suppose that would make sense due to Wyld Elfs being able to have access to it too) - as well as seemingly doesn't have a means for the PC to get rid of, seeing as even using Root of Man doesn't seem to remove it.
Anyways sorry about the tangent, don't particularly know if it's 100% relevant to this thread or not.
Presumably the male harpy thing was a mistake because canonically, there's no such thing as a male harpy. Assuming an answer doesn't come down from on high sooner, I can actually check that sort of thing later because I have copies of some of the old download builds and can dig up one that's pre-rework.
Alright, thanks for the clarification. Ah, yeah I should probably have archived some previous builds myself, but thanks for offering to test it.
In theory, only the specific transformation that the Champ chose as their wyld mark during character creation - or the first one they got through the use of wyld wine if they didn't start as an elf - counts toward their wyld elf racial score. The Wyld Mark choice is stored as its own value in a save.
Having checked, I can confirm that the change to the Appearance system wasn't when you could no longer make a character be considered both a harpy and male at the same time, it must have been fixed at some prior point. I have a copy of 3.38 (the build just before the switch) and played around with it to the point that I had a character with the feathered hair and arms and avian legs but they were still classified as human until they got the pointed ears and didn't get classified as a harpy until they lost the penis.
Likewise, if it was once possible to TF a catfolk penis to human and still be considered catfolk, it wasn't in that build either. So it seems like they didn't intentionally rework any of the racial code when the Appearance rework was implemented, though I know there was a bug that prevented certain certain body parts like tails from being seen by the game which unintentionally made things screwy until they fixed it.
Likewise, if it was once possible to TF a catfolk penis to human and still be considered catfolk, it wasn't in that build either. So it seems like they didn't intentionally rework any of the racial code when the Appearance rework was implemented, though I know there was a bug that prevented certain certain body parts like tails from being seen by the game which unintentionally made things screwy until they fixed it.
Ah, yeah quite true. Specifically, I would imagine that in the scenario of the Wyld Elves, their Wyld Marks would count differently for the racial score - so I suppose my initial post would not necessarily be relevant to Wyld Elf PCs (well only if they were a Wyld Elf initially but then changed to a different race, and said different race also made use of the same body part as the Wyld Mark - not sure if it would specifically count for the Wyld Elf racial score via being a Wyld Mark or being the body part for the different race).
However the point that the "Equine Anus" doesn't seem to have any bearing on racial score (for non-Wyld Elf PCs) was what I was inferring in the latter part of my initial post (the one you're replying to) - as when the PC is a Human, it seems as though using Root of Man doesn't clear the "Equine Anus". This could be an oversight, granted, but one would think that the implication would also be that it doesn't count toward any racial score, as it doesn't seem to change any classification for non-Wyld Elf PCs (or if it does, it's not in any definable or noticeable way, in my opinion).
Ah, thanks for checking it.
Hmm, that's quite unfortunate, but I suppose that's just the way it is. As I said prior, I can't be entirely certain of the interaction in the first place, as I don't have a screenshot or any other method to verify it.
But yeah, interesting to see that it's as I presumed as well, a Human PC will be classified as Human even with Avian arms and legs, until the Elfin ears TF occurs (then they'll be classified as an Elf), and it requires the PC to presumably have only a vagina to be classified as a Harpy exclusively.
Ah okay, that's quite interesting. As said prior, I wouldn't exactly know which specific build in question would of been pre-presumed-racial score rework, but it's good to note that it seems it wasn't the Appearance rework that affected the racial scoring.
Hmm, I wasn't actually aware of that, so thanks for specifying that (with regards to the tails bug).
Oh yeah, that was a funny one. I had two Champs who went to sleep a catboi/cowgirl respectively and woke up human because as far as the Appearance system could tell, their tails had vanished. They were still there in the code, just invisible. That issue was resolved with a hotfix so it was a very short-lived bug.
As far as I could tell from testing, as long as you have a Wyld Mark the body part it covers will always cover towards wyld elf racial score. I often use this interaction to move my characters closer to a preferred look without switching their actual race and losing the access to Hashat's elf-specific scenes.
This is likely a result of "Equine Anus" actually operating through the "slightly pumped" body part flag being put on the character's butt, a transformation that both slamander TF items also share, and one that I fully expect to be achievable through non-racial TF items later.
Hmm, not entirely sure whether this potential interaction would be classified as a bug or not. Although (if this is the case) it would be quite a weird interaction in of itself (as one would expect the Wyld Mark TFs to count for both the Wyld Elf racial score and the different race's racial score as well).
Could there possibly be some clarification please @Upcast Drake.
Sure, but I do find the classification somewhat weird, seeing as it ("Equine Anus") is quite definitively a different TF entirely from the PCs base form, so one would possibly think that it should not be a permanent TF (or at least have a manner by which to remove it, such as Root of Man). However, currently it seems that there is no way to undo the "Equine Anus" TF nor undo the "Slightly Pumped" classification via the Salamander TF, although the latter is at least a little bit more understandable.
I'm also not entirely certain as to whether it's intentional that the PC is able use both such TFs (use the Salamander TF first, then the "Equine Anus" TF second), however it seems that the latter TF doesn't actually change anything besides descriptor (only the Salamander TF increases capacity at all). Therefore, I guess I'd question the reason the "Slightly Pumped" flag changes things like capacity, but the supposedly more definitive flag "Pumped" and it's application via "Equine Anus" doesn't change anything besides descriptor - not entirely sure why the one that is only "Slightly" is more effective / efficient than the one that is supposedly regular or more definitive.
As you say though, there presumably will be a non-racial TF item to function as such later on.