A Rant about variety in TiTS

[Galgano]

I've seen people talk about variety in TiTS. Often it is in reference to shields and weapons. I've read somewhere that some people don't want to have too much variety because it will make the player too strong for the current level of the game. Can variety even be achieved? If the only difference is a set of numbers, can that be considered variety in the first place? People want the best thing. Oftentimes that's just straight up numeric values. What's the point of having something numerically inferior if there are no other bonuses with that item? Some people can point out that if you or an enemy has a particular resistance, that damage can be mitigated with a slightly inferior item, but that would only be useful for that battle. I can't speak for other people, but for generic fights, I will just use the most numerically powerful weapon I have. Generic enemies don't seem to have too high of resistance towards any particular form of damage(I could be wrong), so it would be a pain to constantly be min-maxing for every single menial battle. Bosses, such as Dr. Lash would probably have a certain weapon and shield that would be best suited for the fight, but challenges like that are few and far between. If you play through this game normally, you would probably only have to change weapons and shields when a numerically better one has come along. Even if you don't always do that, you can still fight the stronger generics in this game (I still use the nova pistol with my Tech Spec with no problem).

With so few stats being affected by your choice in weapon and shield, I don't think Fen and Co. can make something that could appropriately be considered variety. If they were able to add unique abilities or something to weapons that you get out in the wild (from rare/unique enemies), that could give players more of a variety. Numerically, these items could be inferior to the best weapon/shield sold in stores, but because they have an ability or trait that is in addition to the normal damage, it may allow players to more uniquely equip themselves to better suit their play style.

I am mostly thinking of the Borderlands series when I write this. While I doubt Fen & Co. could pull off something like that, I think having it be more than just a numbers game could get people to stop asking about variety.

Sorry for the short rant. I am not good with words (or etiquette). If I posted this in the wrong sub-thread, then I apologize. What do you think about variety? Should there be any at all? Should there only be one specific weapon that is essential to continue at each level in the game? Please critique harshly.

 

[VerySexyGrammar]

Variety is super important. Obviously it increases replay value by a lot, and even during the first playthrough it lets players choose their favored style.

There have been nice efforts to implement variety. One of the recent weapons has a special ability that lets you use additional attacks more regularly, and another lets you leech power for an enemy's shield to protect yourself. There could be loads of special weapon abilities like that; this just scratches the surface. We might be seeing some really cool stuff later on; the "tag" system on weapons and armor allows more flexibility than you'd think.

I was just mentioning this in another thread, but I think that variety can be implemented quite easily. Tech Specs being able to choose between an Attack Drone and Shielding early on creates two different class builds with a single, simple perk choice, which is highly efficient. This could be done multiple times for each class; it doesn't need to be limited to "Melee VS Ranged".

One example I gave was that a Smuggler could pick between a perk that lets them gain an Evasion and Tease bonus equal to their level if they don't wear armor, VS another perk that could make them play totally differently in another way. Just one perk choice, and suddenly your characters play very differently, with decent additional flavor as a side benefit. I really think there's a lot of potential here.

Balance may require some additional work, but can be maintained. Using the Tech Spec example above, having the option to pick between Attack Drones and Shielding doesn't make Tech Specs any better at any particular level. Even if you could choose between ten different builds at level 1, as long as they're all as strong as the others, there's no problem.

Sure, it may be better to use some weapons against some enemies. That's why the Smuggler's ability to switch weapons in combat is a thing. If there were no difference between weapons, that'd be a pretty useless perk. And that can improve variety, too. Do you get an equipment setup that makes you passable against everything, or get super specialized weapons and risk having to spend a turn switching them out at the start of a fight? Two ways to build your equipment setup right there.

 

[Noob Salad]

I don't think Fen&Co have time to write up tons of unique abilities, but generic weapons with randomly (sort of) generated stats are doable.

 

[Savin]

I don't think Fen&Co have time to write up tons of unique abilities, but generic weapons with randomly (sort of) generated stats are doable.

I have infinite time to write up cool weapons and abilities. But there comes a point where too many options becomes cumbersome -- once you have 3-5 weapons of a given type balanced for a given bracket of power, adding more is just redundant. You can also risk overflowing vendors with too many items of a given type. Thus, there needs to be more gear vendors, but that takes time because unfortunately there's now a standard in TiTS to make almost every god damn shopkeeper a sexable (often romancable) NPC, which slows things down immeasurably. 

I do agree, though, that weapons and armor could use more special abilities: Mhen'gan/Tarkisan gear is flat-out boring. The tag system is going to make gear a lot more interesting now, hopefully.

Too little too late for class abilities, though. I agree that two classes basically being divided between melee/ranged is lame (TBH I don't think melee should even really be a thing, much less for anyone but Mercs). That's why I generally play Tech Spec -- the other classes are kind of boring (though not lacking for raw power). 

 

[Ormael]

Savin - does during all various brainstorm you had up ther at smut olimp was touched idea of items sets? As I mean we can gather some armor then matching to it range/melee weapon, maybe some undewear that when having more than one part would give PC some additional skill/special as long s/he wear enough pieces?

Heh not noticed even that every vendor npc is kind of exable one

+1 for playing Tech Pries....errr Specs ^^

 

[Gardeford]

Obligatory point out that borderlands probably has less than 50-100 weapons that actually matter if you're playing to win. The rest are literally just there because they look cool

 

[Galgano]

Savin, you don't need to have all your items (or even your best) items in the shop. It would be better to give shopkeepers the generic items with one or two having special abilities thrown into the mix. The really strong weapons, shields, and accessories would be better suited as drops from the really strong enemies. I suppose that would make it harder to create the enemies, because now you have to come up with one or two different sex scenes for each enemy the player fights. Since they are enemy encounters, you don't (always) need to have a romance route designed before implementation. Another method of introducing powerful weapons is have them as a reward for quests. The quest system seems highly underutilized right now. I understand that you would have to write text for the entire quest, but surely it's not as much as writing a multitude of sex scenes for a single NPC. This game is still not considered complete; it's not too late to redesign the skill system for the game. Heck, World of Warcraft redesigned its skill system and the game had already been out for many years.

 

[DaBomb]

Or you could have item vendors similar to the ones in Borderlands.  Unless there's some kind of vending machine fetish that i'm not aware of, you wouldn't have to write smut for it and it can be generic as hell.  Win/Win situation!

 

[VerySexyGrammar]

Unless there's some kind of vending machine fetish

It's called "Japan".

 

[Nik_van_Rijn]

TBH I don't think melee should even really be a thing, much less for anyone but Mercs. That's why I generally play Tech Spec -- the other classes are kind of boring though not lacking for raw power. 

But what about melee Smugglers? Are you implying that one can't play as a honorabru space ninja? What next, telling us that there will never be a way to weaponize kui-tan balls?

Still hope for some future interactions between stealth and sneak attack moves.

 

[Noob Salad]

I have infinite time

Give me your productivity.

 

[Savin]

Give me your productivity.

No, I need it. 

 

[Nebula Fox]

If melee shouldn't even be a thing, then how can I have my obligatory light-dick sabers from space balls as weapons, entirely based on cock/clit length? 0/10, immersion broken.

 

[ShySquare]

unless there's some kind of vending machine fetish that i'm not aware of

Don't underestimate humanity's depravity, please. If something exists, there is, somewhere on the planet, someone who gets off on it.

 

[MESeele]

Unless there's some kind of vending machine fetish that i'm not aware of

Don't underestimate humanity's depravity, please. If something exists, there is, somewhere on the planet, someone who gets off on it.

I'm sure somewhere in Japan is a guy who fucked a vending machine in an attempt to cum on the panties inside. It doesn't matter that they're packaged; I'm sure he tried.

 

[Nik_van_Rijn]

Crazy Machinefuckers Cults in TiTS when? Make your bets, ladies and gents.

 

[JimThermic]

I'm sure somewhere in Japan is a guy who fucked a vending machine in an attempt to cum on the panties inside. It doesn't matter that they're packaged; I'm sure he tried.

Who told you I did this? =O Who spilled the beans?!

 

[Eva]

Crazy Machinefuckers Cults in TiTS when? Make your bets, ladies and gents.

*Coughs*

*Points at Hand So*

 

[Nik_van_Rijn]

*Coughs*

*Points at Hand So*

Nonono, I'm talking about people who would consider something being a machine the most important factor and would want to fuck a toaster, possibly assigning some sort of bullshit philosophical or religious significance to the act. VIs and AIs in sex-bot bodies won't be these people's cup of tea.

 

[Darkmind]

One thing I have noticed a bit - and could be extended to be more noticeable - is that the planets on TiTS have some themes in damage and resistance.  This could be a route to some more variety in the game - if it's worth getting and wielding the electricity weapons on Tarkus (for example) and they are fairly weak on Myrellion, then you have a choice: You can get a strong general weapon and use it on both, or you can get specialty weapon for each that isn't as useful elsewhere.  At the moment I don't feel like it really matters enough for me to do this - I do decent amounts of damage with whatever weapon I use.

Each planet of course is likely to hold in the store a weapon that's effective there - but it still doesn't need to be the most effective.  This means the same one/two shopkeepers (or some powerful local enemy) is enough for you to find all of the effective weapons.  The point being that you have to make the choice with whether you're going for general or not.

Having one or two enemies on the planet who don't fit the general planet profile is tempting, but actually is counter-productive.  The moment you know you're going to run into an enemies who negate the advantage of the specialized weapons, the balance immediately swings to sticking to general damage dealers. (Of course, planets could be specialized in a couple of things, as long as there are weapon choices that support that.)

This then also gives you the choice of what you want to do with your credits - get the 'good' weapons, or spend them on other things?  At the moment, once I'm past Mhen'ga I don't really bother to buy weapons - you can get some very good ones there, and nothing else is a noticeable improvement to buy.

 

[JDeko]

I mean I really love weapons so I'd be psyched if every level of power let you chose from weapons as diverse as bolt action rifles to pheromone SMGs and everything in between so basically every planet had hundreds of weapons.

But I'm pretty messed up in the head so I settle for what I can get.

 

[Number13]

Nonono, I'm talking about people who would consider something being a machine the most important factor and would want to fuck a toaster, possibly assigning some sort of bullshit philosophical or religious significance to the act. VIs and AIs in sex-bot bodies won't be these people's cup of tea.

There is a group like that already in TiTS that hasn't made any appearances yet. For anyone interested, here's the link.

http://wiki.smutosaur.us/Mechanus_League

 

[Nik_van_Rijn]

There is a group like that already in TiTS that hasn't made any appearances yet. For anyone interested, here's the link.

http://wiki.smutosaur.us/Mechanus_League

Thanks for the link. Now I remember reading about them when I've initially found Faction category on the wiki. Pity that we don't know who their author is or part of what project they are/were supposed to be. 

 

[Couch]

Faction and Organization information that is not in the game should be taken with many, many grains of salt.  Much of it was conceived very early in development, most of it has no real plans for associated game content, and frankly some of it needs to be given a careful examination of if it's actually a good idea to include.