A general inquiry about the story's design philosophy

Herod_Hammerstar

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Dec 24, 2020
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I have only played up to Level 3 as yet, which I assume is not very far into the overall game, and I don't want to have spoilers about where the plot is going eventually, but I did want to ask COC2's creator about his philosophy and objective when creating this experience. It seems to me as though COC2 is designed to be very much a sandbox kind of a game, where the player has a lot of control over which direction the experience evolves in (with certain annoying exceptions mostly revolving around the kind of sex that happens, but I'll save that rant for my Pet Peeves mini-thread). Given this, I was contemplating the use of Kashyrra (spelling, sorry) as the game's antagonist, and getting the impression that s/he seems to be an example of what TVTropes calls "Orcus on His Throne"...meaning that the arch-villain has ultra-diabolical intentions, and is often said to be actively pursuing some nefarious plan, but never actually seems to be in any real hurry about it. If the players feel like charging toward the final confrontation, they will arrive just in the nick of time to stop the Big Bad's awful scheme, while if they feel like farting around with NPC interactions or the Craft system or a bunch of fetch quests (or, in this case, just screwing everything that moves), then the villain will never actually get around to destroying the world or whatever. Because ultimately, from this design philosophy, the story isn't really about the villain destroying the world or whatever, the story is about the hero, and if the hero isn't in a hurry to face the villain, then the villain will just kill time until they show up.

There are several works of fiction which lampshade the Orcus On His Throne trope, such as in "The Order of the Stick" where Xykon flat-out tells Roy "go gain a few more levels before you fight me, so that I don't just mop the floor with you". Other works seem like they actively avert this trope; watching a well-written show like Babylon 5, you never really get the impression that either of the series' main villains (who I will avoid naming in case anybody doesn't know who they turn out to be) would simply ignore B5 indefinitely if it didn't eventually move against them. In the case of the early seasons of Stargate SG-1, we actually see both of these happening; the Goa'uld are explicitly scenery-chewing villains by deliberate in-character design, so it makes perfect sense that they simply ignored the Earth for thousands of years because it wasn't a threat to them, and then suddenly within a 10-year period they scrambled to try and defeat Stargate Command and were instead basically wiped out.

So, given all this, without wanting to have the outcome of the game spoiled, I wonder if Kashyrra's mission to corrupt and debauch everybody is just going to be an ongoing backdrop throughout the game, regardless of how much time I spend playing with my Alchemist Kit (or, erm, other sources of amusement), or if Day 57 rolls around and I'll suddenly get a Game Over because I didn't stop him/her in time.
 

Paradox01

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Feb 8, 2020
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That was an insanely long way of asking if the game's end is on a timer or if you can fart around for as many in-game days as you like. And the answer is, take your time, fill your boots. The game will conclude when you get to the end, just like every other videogame and RPG that's ever been made ever.*


*Maybe slightly hyperbolic, but you get the point.
 
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Alypia

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Apr 22, 2016
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Actual time limits do not make for fun RPGs for 95% of people who play them. The world's not gonna end because, say, Floofer Champ decided that they really wanted to get Kiyoko up to nine tails. (Or whatever.)

It's easy to meme on things like this, and everybody - including the writers and coders - does it, but that doesn't make it a bad design choice at the sharp end.
 

SomeNobody

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Dec 18, 2020
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The only thing that seemed like it was timed in any way was supposedly the portal Cait's sister was thrown through being related to some annual occurrence.
 

TheShepard256

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Kasyrra not going full speed on her plans to corrupt Savarra is actually at least partially intentional; she wants the Champion and their soul to get more powerful so that when she does decide to take their soul*, it'll be much more satisfying (or something like that). Of course, by the time that happens, it's likely the Champion & co. will be strong enough to properly beat Kasyrra.
*Keep in mind that she's currently a lot more powerful than the Champion, so she could do this any time she wanted to.
 

Herod_Hammerstar

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Dec 24, 2020
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Kasyrra not going full speed on her plans to corrupt Savarra is actually at least partially intentional; she wants the Champion and their soul to get more powerful so that when she does decide to take their soul*, it'll be much more satisfying (or something like that). Of course, by the time that happens, it's likely the Champion & co. will be strong enough to properly beat Kasyrra.
*Keep in mind that she's currently a lot more powerful than the Champion, so she could do this any time she wanted to.

So besides Orcus On His Throne, we also have the trope Evil is Dumb. (With a bit more justification than in most cartoon-villain scenarios, since Kasyrra is presumably bombed out of her mind on sex hormones at all times, and thus does not make decisions on the basis of rationality. Presumably, Methodical Harry Potter would make short work of her.)
 

Akhter13

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Aug 30, 2015
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Orcus On His Throne
Not so much as you meet her fairly often, to the point that some of your companions give start giving you grief [Adora/Catra style]
Evil is Dumb
I'd say more elements of : Honourable Demon/ Glorious Bastard
She may be a Demon but that doesn't make her the source of all wickedness
 

kiby

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Aug 26, 2015
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Kas would rather have fun and persue her own personal desires than immediately stomp everyone out (which she is readily capable of outside of the gods, and was why she was summoned in the first place). Even with the hornets and the alraune, Kas corrupts them then immediately leaves to go find something else to entertain her (the Winter City).
 
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Wissenschaft

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Aug 5, 2020
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From what I've seen of the story, in Kasyrra's mind this world was doomed the moment she was summoned. Easy conquests make for less tasty souls, she wants the thrill of having the most powerful opponent possible to fall to corruption. Is it dangerous for her to let the champion power up? Sure but shes a demon. She lives for the thrill of corruption and defilement. I wouldn't say demons in the setting are exactly "sane".
 

Necros

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Nov 23, 2020
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From what I've seen of the story, in Kasyrra's mind this world was doomed the moment she was summoned. Easy conquests make for less tasty souls, she wants the thrill of having the most powerful opponent possible to fall to corruption. Is it dangerous for her to let the champion power up? Sure but shes a demon. She lives for the thrill of corruption and defilement. I wouldn't say demons in the setting are exactly "sane".

Except when champion is for all purposes in bed with her, both literally and metaphorically. I for one hope plot turns out more that "Corrupt everything".
 

WolframL

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Feb 12, 2020
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I'll repeat what Savin already said: Have you seen the Winter City plotline yet? Because Kas has some clearly stated goals beyond 'corrupt things for the sake of it'. Whether you agree with those goals or not is another matter but they exist.