Trouble fighting Dr Lash

[4rm4ld0]

I have maxed out Steele resistance to Burning(100%) but somehow Steele still got demolished. Am I misunderstanding how resistance works?

My Codex Combat is:
Physical Combat
* Accuracy Bonus, Melee: 6 %
* Accuracy Bonus, Ranged: 16 %
* Critical Chance, Melee: 0 %
* Critical Chance, Ranged: 0 %
* Defense, Armor: 0
* Defense, Shields: 14
* Defense, Lust: 3.6
* Evasion Bonus: 0 %
* Fortification: 0
* Melee Damage, Kinetic: 19.32
* Melee Damage, Electric: 28.14
* Ranged Damage, Kinetic: 39.95
* Attack Drone Damage, Electric: 21 - 26
* Resistance, Kinetic: 60 % HP, 45 % Shields
* Resistance, Electric: 90 % HP, -25 % Shields
* Resistance, Burning: 100 % HP, 0 % Shields
* Resistance, Freezing: 70 % HP, 0 % Shields
* Resistance, Corrosive: 60 % HP, 0 % Shield
* Resistance, Poison: 60 % HP, 0 % Shields

 

[Hanzo]

* Resistance, Burning: 100 % HP, 0 % Shields
This means 100% burning resistance when taking HP damage (but I guess resistances are capped at a value lower than 100), 0% when your shields take damage.

Only your shield contributes to shield resistances, everything else to HP resistances. It seems that you're playing as a tech specialist (a character with low HP), so going after gear with high resist values isn't a good idea.

 

[Dark67titan]

might be becuase you have no armour and lash eats through shields like a knife through butter

 

[4rm4ld0]

might be becuase you have no armour and lash eats through shields like a knife through butter

I'm using the SteeleTech Armor, 30% Burning Resistance, the full gear is:
Underwear(10%) + Shelter drone(60%)+Steeletech armor(30%)

Only your shield contributes to shield resistances, everything else to HP resistances. It seems that you're playing as a tech specialist (a character with low HP), so going after gear with high resist values isn't a good idea.

But then the Shelter Drone is useless, right? He only stay on while shields are up and since he don't add protection to shields and when Steele start taking HP damage the drone will power down, having one is the same as having no drone at all.

 

[Paradox01]

Equip the Bimboleum Defense System, Prototype Pirate Shield, Aegis MG and Trick Bracer for the Shield buffs, and a couple Aphro Daisies. I currently wear the Gray Goo Armor, but the Steele Tech Suit gives another 15 bonus to shields, and the Modified Yellow Clothes armor slot gives a shield bonus of 60 (highest in the game). The latter has no bonus to Burning resistance but it doesn't need it with this build. With the BDS, you want your shields to go down.

All you have to do is throw a couple Aphro Daisies at him and let his attacks do the rest. Once he knocks down your shields (which will be at 245 with this build, 260 with the ST Suit and 305 with the Yellow Clothes!), watch his Lust meter redline thanks to the BDS. Once per battle, it sends out a wave of Lust damage commensurate with the starting strength of your shields once they're dropped.

 

[Hanzo]

But then the Shelter Drone is useless, right? He only stay on while shields are up and since he don't add protection to shields and when Steele start taking HP damage the drone will power down, having one is the same as having no drone at all.

In combat, yes. However, it protects the user from enviromental hazards like the cold in Uveto.

 

[Theron]

But then the Shelter Drone is useless, right? He only stay on while shields are up and since he don't add protection to shields and when Steele start taking HP damage the drone will power down, having one is the same as having no drone at all.

Shelter Drone is useless because it only applies resistance out of combat. This is listed in the tooltip. It also decreases Maximum Shields by 50.
I'm hoping for more environmental hazards because Uveto's cold is trivial to deal with, so Shield Drone is not worth the trouble.

Just did a successful run.
Augment-Weave Armor
Prototype Pirate Shield
Shield Aug Bracers
Custom Shock Gear
FZR Fire Suppression System

FZR and CSG is a potent combination. FZR can cause a status effect that doubles damage from Crushing weapons against the target.
Round 1: Shoot FZR, inflict Deep Freeze (50% chance)
Round 2: Charge Weapon
Round 3: Normal Attack

(S: -323, H: -54) (H: -3)
(H: -349) (H: -321)
Fight is over (Granted, I also have 50 Physique and 50 Intelligence)

Dr. Lash can be stunned by CSG's Stun Chance. If he is, it's all over. Actually, it's over if the Deep Freeze lands.
I thought you might be able to use the Salamander, which has 30% Burning Resistance to Pirate Prototype's 15% but I think it might not have enough base Shields, even with a bunch of bonus Shields on top. Maybe if you'd gone with Shield Booster at level 2.

 

[ScarletteKnight]

You don't even need to be optimized at all, just hit him with an electrified rock

 

[sumgai]

You don't even need to be optimized at all, just hit him with an electrified rock

Not EVERYONE is a melee tech, glorious as they are.

 

[ScarletteKnight]

Not EVERYONE is a melee tech, glorious as they are.

Fair. Still, I'm pretty sure Ranged Merc and a Smuggler can do the job without being perfectly geared up

 

[Paradox01]

Fair. Still, I'm pretty sure Ranged Merc and a Smuggler can do the job without being perfectly geared up

I defeated him without firing a shot or taking a single swipe as a Merc with the BDS set-up I mentioned earlier. Two grenades and Lash's own attacks did him in for me.

 

[sumgai]

Fair. Still, I'm pretty sure Ranged Merc and a Smuggler can do the job without being perfectly geared up

Take Cover and Second Wind are some incredible abilities for staying in a fight, and a Merc can get them BOTH. Pity Hammer mercs are stuck with weapons that typically lower accuracy...

 

[4rm4ld0]

Not EVERYONE is a melee tech, glorious as they are.

In my case I'm. I always play as a tech specialist and since the Aegis Chain gun is the only high level weapon which synergyze with Tech but it's not a energy weapon, so melee tech it is. However I'm at level 8, not 10 this may be important. I have defeated Lash once in another save at level 9 so I think it is duable at 8.

 

[sumgai]

What about that Akane weapon via her quest?

 

[Theron]

According to the Wiki, you just need:
1. 200 Shields
2. Bimbolium Defense System (which can be conveniently bought form Dr Badger across the hall)
3. Enough Burning Resistance to survive him breaking your Shields

In my own testing, the BDS does 75 Lust damage with 200 Shields. Since he starts at 1 Lust, this is obviously not enough. 250 Shields puts him at 98 Lust. Attacking with the Bio Whip while waiting for him to drop your Shields should be enough. Even if your Physique is 3.

I do have a save with a Level 8 Melee, Attack Drone Tech Specialist. Trying to come up with a plan. I can get 205 Shields with Daedalus Threads, and Reaper Armaments Shield MK1, but only brings his Lust up to 76 and leaves me with less Burning Resistance. Aphro Dasies don't seem to do much. You're probably better off with the Bio Whip. It does about as much damage, and isn't a consumable.

270 Shields guarantees his loss. Easy to do after visiting Zheng Shi once. Pirate Prototype (200) + Trick Bracer (20), both from Urbolg + 15 (Steele Tech Suit) + 40 (assuming you're still level 8) from Attack Drone + Shield Tweaks = 275.


Also, the +25 Shields from Aegis Light Machine Gun isn't really worth much. Tri-Beam Rifle may be the best Ranged Tech Specialist weapon right now. I don't really play a Ranged Tech Specialist, so I can't be sure. Also, the Heavy Slut Ray has a Stun Chance, and can be Overcharged.

Charge Weapon is just too good. The class that specifically calls out Aim as a key stat in it's description into the best Melee weapon class. Also, Stun Chance weapon + Rapid Recharge (level 10, so you don't have it yet) + decent luck with Stuns = infinite Shields. And Stun Chance is much more common on Melee weapons.

For the strategy I listed above, pairing Custom Shock Gear + FZR, you only need to be level 7 to buy the FZR. I've yet to beat Shizuya at level 8, though. Level 9 is my lower limit. However, there are other Crushing weapons. Notably, the Lightning Rod and Light Savicite Maul are both Crushing and have Stun Chance. Charge Weapon means base damage isn't as important for you.

 

[Paradox01]

According to the Wiki, you just need:
1. 200 Shields
2. Bimbolium Defense System (which can be conveniently bought form Dr Badger across the hall)
3. Enough Burning Resistance to survive him breaking your Shields

In my own testing, the BDS does 75 Lust damage with 200 Shields. Since he starts at 1 Lust, this is obviously not enough. 250 Shields puts him at 98 Lust. Attacking with the Bio Whip while waiting for him to drop your Shields should be enough. Even if your Physique is 3.

This sounds eerily familiar...

 

[Theron]

This sounds eerily familiar...

Yes, I saw your plan, but it involves Aphro Dasies, which aren't very effective*, require going back to Uveto to restock, and aren't actually necessary with 305 Shields.

*Unless they were more effective for you. Were you getting more than 2 damage/Daisy?

And the Wiki is wrong. The BDS is a viable plan, but you need ~270 Shields, minimum, for it to be guaranteed to work, not 200. Helpfully, this is viable for any class. Mercenaries are best at it, I think. Being able to Second Wind each fight means that so long as Dr. Lash doesn't do more than half your HP, you effectively can keep it up forever without Resting. Just make sure to leave the room and come back to recharge your Shields.

4rm4ld0, your easiest strategy seems to be going to Zheng Shi for the Prototype Pirate Shield, unless you don't want to go there yet, for some reason. May I ask why you want to defeat Dr. Lash at level 8? For his money (or XP) or a self-imposed challenge?

 

[Paradox01]

I actually upgraded to Ero Gas Grenades, available at Dhaal. I also suggested other items to boost your shields, like the Aegis MG, Trick Bracers and certain armors. With the Yellow Clothes (305 shields), you're right, the grenades aren't really needed, but chucking frags passes the time while your shields drop.

And I wouldn't say the wiki is wrong, per se, it just doesn't tell the whole story.

 

[Theron]

I actually upgraded to Ero Gas Grenades, available at Dhaal. ... With the Yellow Clothes (305 shields), you're right, the grenades aren't really needed, but chucking frags passes the time while your shields drop.

And I wouldn't say the wiki is wrong, per se, it just doesn't tell the whole story.

At 30K/Grenade, that's really expensive to throw away if you don't need it. Not that it really matters, since Dr. Lash drops so much money.

Maybe I was too harsh with my word choice. I seem to remember Dr. Lash being level 10 at some point. That bit of his page looks like theorycrafting or something left over from an earlier patch, since it claims he'll lose if you have 200 Shields. While he doesn't have any resistance to Psionic specifically, he does have 25 Armor. If that Armor applies, that would explain the discrepancy. 125 (accounting for 25 Armor) x 2 (Accounting for BDS calculation) = 250. Which my testing indicates puts him at 98. Really, 258 is probably the minimum for a guaranteed victory with no other action on your part, but 250 is perfectly fine if you have 1 more source of Lust damage.

 

[Paradox01]

At 30K/Grenade, that's really expensive to throw away if you don't need it. Not that it really matters, since Dr. Lash drops so much money.

Uh, I may or may not have the Infinite Item Use code turned on...

 

[Theron]

Uh, I may or may not have the Infinite Item Use code turned on...

A hypothetical person using the Infinite Item Use code could use different tactics...

 

[TheShepard256]

My own testing with the BDS indicates that it deals damage equal to 1/3rd of your Shield strength, so 297 Shields is the minimum to take down Lash without doing anything else (base Lust 1 + 99 damage = 100 Lust, which is his max since he doesn't have the Inhuman Desire perk). I think the wiki assumes it deals 1/2 your Shield strength in damage, hence the 200 figure (or maybe it was like that when that was written, but it's since been nerfed). EDIT: I was wrong, see next two posts.

 

[Theron]

270 definitely works. Just tried 265. Level 10 Tech Specialist. 200 Pirate Prototype, 15 Steele Tech Suit, 50 Shield Tweaks + Attack Drone.
Your self-defense system releases a wave of concentrated, psychic slut-energy as your shields buckle! (L: +99)

 

[TheShepard256]

270 definitely works. Just tried 265. Level 10 Tech Specialist. 200 Pirate Prototype, 15 Steele Tech Suit, 50 Shield Tweaks + Attack Drone.
Your self-defense system releases a wave of concentrated, psychic slut-energy as your shields buckle! (L: +99)

I've just checked the code, and it deals psionic damage with a base damage of 1/2 your shield strength. With Lash's lack of resistance/weakness to psionic damage, and no status effects or perks that otherwise modify lust damage taken, his only damage reduction is his base Lust Defense of 14 (20% of his Willpower of 70), so the total damage will be 1/2 Shields - 14. Unless I missed something, this means the theoretical minimum Shields for this to work is 226.

However, testing with a Tech Specialist with Shield Booster (10 per level when combined with Shield Tweaks), Steele Tech Suit (15), Trick Bracer (20) and Jumper Shield (100), 225 Shields (level 9) only dealt 85 damage, 235 (level 10) resulted in 90, 250 (level 9 + Aegis Light MG (25)) resulted in 97, 260 (level 10 + Aegis) resulted in defeating him. Based on this, the total damage is actually 1/2 Shields - 28*, so the minimum is actually 254 Shields.
*Notably, this is exactly twice Lash's Lust Defense. Maybe it's being applied twice somehow?

 

[Theron]

...Based on this, the total damage is actually 1/2 Shields - 28*, so the minimum is actually 254 Shields.
*Notably, this is exactly twice Lash's Lust Defense. Maybe it's being applied twice somehow?

If it is, that seems like the sort of thing that might be a general bug. If it is a bug. We might want to test vs other enemies.

200 Shields
Male Korgonne:
(L: +87)
Female Korgonne:
(L: +87)
Male Milodan (capped):
(L: +75)
Gel Zon (10)*
Rat's Raiders (none maxed out)
The Rodent Girl is hit! (L: +90)
The Half-Rodenian Boy is hit! (L: +88)
The Mouse-boy is hit! (L: +88)

100 Shields
Male Korgonne:
(L: +37)
Female Korgonne:
(L: +37)
Male Milodan:
(L: +35)

*Did you know that Defense Systems don't activate vs Gel Zon?

 

[TheShepard256]

If it is, that seems like the sort of thing that might be a general bug. If it is a bug. We might want to test vs other enemies.

200 Shields
Vs Male Korgonne (10 starting Lust):
(L: +87)
Vs Female Korgonne (10):
(L: +87)

​

Both male and female Korgonne have 31 Willpower -> 6.2 Lust Defense. 1/2 Shields - 2x Lust Def = 100 - 12.4 = 87.6 = 87 when rounded down, matches with observations.

Vs Male Milodan (25):
(L: +75)
Vs Male Milodan, 100 Shields:
(L: +35)​

37 Willpower -> 7.4 Lust Defense. Ignoring the 200 Shields result since it deals enough damage to defeat him outright, and we can't guarantee that it exactly defeats him (since if lust + final lust damage result > max lust, the result is set equal to max lust - lust). 1/2 Shields - 2x Lust Def = 50 - 14.8 = 35.2 = 35 when rounded down, matches with observations.

Vs Gel Zon (10)*

35 Willpower -> 7 Lust Defense. 1.2 Shields - 2x Lust Def = 100 - 14 = 84, assuming you're still using 200 Shields. Can't check without values.

My own testing (132 Shields):
Male and female sydian: 17 Willpower -> 3.4 Lust Defense. Practically impossible for either to take out my shields, so I dunno.
Female raskvel: 5 Willpower -> 1 Lust Defense. 1/2 Shields - 2x Lust Def = 66 - 2 = 64, observed 62.
Male raskvel: 7 Willpower -> 1.4 Lust Defense. 1/2 Shields - 2x Lust Def = 66 - 2.8 = 63, observed 61.
Gabilani Vacationers: 10 Willpower -> 2 Lust Defense. 1/2 Shields - 2x Lust Def = 66 - 4 = 62, observed 61 (had to tease them to max lust once so it wouldn't result in them getting max lust from the BDS). I've also found that they still take actions even if they've been defeated via Health loss, and that it's possible they're supposed to be immune to psionic damage (since their base drug damage is set to 100% twice, and all their other damage resistances except for Tease are also at 100%, which makes me think one of them is supposed to be psionic instead).
I'm not sure what's causing these discrepancies; maybe it's because I'm testing with a level 5 character, or they all received slight Willpower or psionic resistance buffs between 0.8.057 (the version that the public GitHub is at, where I'm getting these Willpower values from) and 0.8.058 (the version I'm testing on), or I'm missing something again.

*Did you know that Defense Systems don't activate if you're Stunned when your Shields go down? Ask me how I know. Or maybe it's just Gel Zon. On further testing, there was one encounter he didn't stun me, and my Salamander (I'd switched it out to test) didn't trigger.

I think I know why that happens, and yes, it is Gel Zon specifically. His jetpack gun attack, his combined ranged-melee attack, and the attack where he shoots lightning from his spear while not flying all have their applyDamage functions commented out (i.e. they don't work anymore), and that function is where Steele gains the status effect that causes the Defense System damage to occur at the end of the turn. His spear-lightning while flying attack, his voluntary landing attack, and his attacks after he's shot down still have their applyDamage functions as normal, so the Defense Systems should still activate if those attacks breach Steele's shields. EDIT: made bug report on this, but not the rest.

 

[Theron]

That 10 was supposed to be Gel Zon's starting Lust, to keep track if he maxed out and made the damage report unreliable. I didn't provide Lust damage data because I couldn't get any. It was so consistent I assumed it was impossible and stopped bothering. Why they'd make Gel Zon in particular behave that way I have no idea.

I was using a level 10 Smuggler, if it makes a difference.

A slight change to the formula is more likely than all those enemies getting changes, but it's still kind of unlikely. Do you think we're derailing this thread and should start another?

 

[TheShepard256]

That 10 was supposed to be Gel Zon's starting Lust, to keep track if he maxed out and made the damage report unreliable. I didn't provide Lust damage data because I couldn't get any. It was so consistent I assumed it was impossible and stopped bothering.

I know, I know, and I assumed that to be the case, respectively.

Why they'd make Gel Zon in particular behave that way I have no idea.

I think it's because those attacks have variants for "shields up", "shields breached" and "shields down" which requires the damage to be applied to Steele right before those variants are outputted, and using applyDamage would have caused the (S: -x, H: -y) to appear in the exact place where it was applied i.e. in the mi.

I was using a level 10 Smuggler, if it makes a difference.

It shouldn't. As far as I can tell, it only depends upon max Shields, psionic resistance and Lust Defense.

Do you think we're derailing this thread and should start another?

*Shrugs* I dunno.

 

[Paradox01]

Do you think we're derailing this thread and should start another?

*Shrugs* I dunno.

LOL!

And actually, I think this is more of a case of "side-tracked" than "derailed".

 

[TheShepard256]

@Theron I found out where I went wrong. By default, Lust Defense is actually level/1.5 + Willpower/4, rounded up; for some reason, Steele's Lust Defense is overridden to be Willpower/5 + a bonus from the "Beta's Satisfaction" status effect. For some reason, I didn't think to look for it in Creature.as. Redoing the above calculations:
Lash: level 15, 70 Willpower -> Lust Def = 28
Korgonne: level 7, 31 Willpower -> Lust Def = 13
Milodan: level 8, 37 Willpower -> Lust Def = 15
Raskvel F: level 3, 5 Willpower -> Lust Def = 4
Raskvel M: level 4, 7 Willpower -> Lust Def = 5
Gabilani Vacationers: level 3, 10 Willpower -> Lust Def = 5
Using these numbers with 1/2 Shields - Lust Defense matches our observations exactly.