Surrendr (slave sim)

[TheDarkMaster]

Great, I just edited out a huge part of my post trying to fix editing. So, short version:



I actually like that, and here's why.


This is an actual psychological compliance technique, and is used in negotiations everywhere, from business, to interpersonal, to political. It's the "door in the face technique" opposed to the "foot in the door technique" which is what I've been mildly advocating so far. It's where a major request is made, in order to make a later (desired) request seem more reasonable by comparison, and likely to be accepted.


Basically, it simulates this: the captor wants the PC to submit to, say, wearing the collar. So, the lead-up is requesting the PC to whore themselves out for their captor, which the captor knows will be rejected out of hand. But, by making that request first, wearing the collar will seem a more reasonable concession to ask by comparison, and it's more likely the PC will accept it. But, by accepting it then, the captor knows the PC will end up habituated to obedience in the long run, and will eventually submit to being whored out anyways.


Whether or not it's a fun game play mechanic is up for debate (I think it is). But, it is realistic, and contextually consistent.

That sort of idea is what I was thinking of setting up for with the random demands for slave levels.  Set up the player to choose what they perceive as being the lesser of the evils in order to avoid punishment or curry favor.  That isn't really the problem with the event chain that Mario is bringing up.


The problem in that case is that there actually is no player choice or no stat checks in the event.  It's a punishment scene that may randomly trigger if your punishment points are too high and causes a massive amount of willpower damage.  If your captor then randomly decides to demand your next slave level event immediately afterwards, you have no choice because of the really low willpower.  Punishment points can be randomly accrued through no fault of the player as well, so it is entirely possible to suddenly go from perfectly fine to the next level of slavery in three turn ticks without the player having ever made a choice purely due to random chance.  It's mainly an issue with how the events play together and that there's nothing stopping the captor from triggering events over and over again in short succession.

 

[Kesil]

interesting wall of text

I'm relatively with you here, especially when it comes to choose which kind of slave the PC will be. For example, I am not interested in hard bondage or forced body/mind change but I am interested in tatoos, cum soaking and minor toiletplay. You see, I don't play for my character to be broken by an abusive dom. Perhaps that why I have chosen an inexperienced dom so far, even if it would cater to the "strict=abusive/inexperienced=caring" stereotypes. If any, I'd say that an inexperienced dom could be one more prone to punish the PC by virtue of not figuring out one's gears for needs and wants.

 

[BCRoxx]

That sort of idea is what I was thinking of setting up for with the random demands for slave levels.  Set up the player to choose what they perceive as being the lesser of the evils in order to avoid punishment or curry favor [...] It's a punishment scene that may randomly trigger if your punishment points are too high and causes a massive amount of willpower damage.

Well, there's the contradiction which is the heart of the issue. The player is setting themselves up for failure by allowing punishment to get too high in the first place, making them vulnerable to this chain of (admittedly, random) events. The player is already making the choice you advocate, by refusing to submit now in exchange for later vulnerability; or, alternatively, could already choose the lesser of two evils to avoid later punishment.


Maybe this would be better-explained in the course of game-play somehow, or better played-out through events, but I don't see it as a strictly aberrant situation. The captor is exploiting the PC's temporary weakness to gain major concessions. Though, I do agree, punishment should be more immediate rather than built up over time, and the punishment/reward stat simply reworked into a generalized disposition (favorable/unfavorable) of the captor towards the PC.


Of course, looking at it this way, willpower would do better as a gating mechanic (must have this much willpower to refuse to comply), with the punishment itself having a variable willpower cost depending upon the severity and nature of the punishment (in turn dependent upon the captor's disposition), rather than willpower being an expendable resource spent to refuse to comply with any given order.

I'm relatively with you here, especially when it comes to choose which kind of slave the PC will be. For example, I am not interested in hard bondage or forced body/mind change but I am interested in tatoos, cum soaking and minor toiletplay. You see, I don't play for my character to be broken by an abusive dom. Perhaps that why I have chosen an inexperienced dom so far, even if it would cater to the "strict=abusive/inexperienced=caring" stereotypes. If any, I'd say that an inexperienced dom could be one more prone to punish the PC by virtue of not figuring out one's gears for needs and wants.

With respect, I think the game crosses that particular Rubicon by default. The dom roofies the PC, kidnaps them, and forces them into sexual slavery, after all. Though, an alternate starting scenario where the PC consensually signs a contract really would do well to be available, to avoid that particular snag.


And I agree, at generation the game would be better-served allowing the player to select captor by strictness level, not experience. I'd love to see both apply, though, if in no way other than the latter attribute being a coefficient influencing willpower, arousal, and submissiveness growth (more experienced dominants being able to keep their wards' overall compliance higher over time).

 

[TheDarkMaster]

Well, there's the contradiction which is the heart of the issue. The player is setting themselves up for failure by allowing punishment to get too high in the first place, making them vulnerable to this chain of (admittedly, random) events. The player is already making the choice you advocate, by refusing to submit now in exchange for later vulnerability; or, alternatively, could already choose the lesser of two evils to avoid later punishment.


Maybe this would be better-explained in the course of game-play somehow, or better played-out through events, but I don't see it as a strictly aberrant situation. The captor is exploiting the PC's temporary weakness to gain major concessions. Though, I do agree, punishment should be more immediate rather than built up over time, and the punishment/reward stat simply reworked into a generalized disposition (favorable/unfavorable) of the captor towards the PC.


Of course, looking at it this way, willpower would do better as a gating mechanic (must have this much willpower to refuse to comply), with the punishment itself having a variable willpower cost depending upon the severity and nature of the punishment (in turn dependent upon the captor's disposition), rather than willpower being an expendable resource spent to refuse to comply with any given order.

The problem remains that you can randomly get punishment points by random chance too.  There's at least one event that checks to see if you have enough arousal to cum and if you don't gives +20 punishment.  That event can trigger back to back, so you can be forced to cum, and then get punishment points because you can't cum immediately afterwards.  Stacking up punishment points with impunity really should get you into trouble.  Here the issue is that the player might have little to no punishment and high willpower, get slapped with a bunch of sudden punishment from the one event, which then triggers a punishment that drains all your willpower, and then be forced into a slave level if all three events trigger in series with no break between them to recover willpower.

 

[Mario]

The problem remains that you can randomly get punishment points by random chance too.  There's at least one event that checks to see if you have enough arousal to cum and if you don't gives +20 punishment.  That event can trigger back to back, so you can be forced to cum, and then get punishment points because you can't cum immediately afterwards.  Stacking up punishment points with impunity really should get you into trouble.  Here the issue is that the player might have little to no punishment and high willpower, get slapped with a bunch of sudden punishment from the one event, which then triggers a punishment that drains all your willpower, and then be forced into a slave level if all three events trigger in series with no break between them to recover willpower.

That, basically.


I had a chain of events that moved the PC from slave 2 to 3 in just three klicks without any choice in between because the willpower was 0 after a serve punishment. That punishment in itself ain't the issue, but the massive hit and the consequences thereof lead to firstly advance to a new level, then two events followed like getting fucked (unable to resist because of still low willpower) and then an immediate adcanvemend to Level 3 without any Rest in between, all on one day. After that the submission score was practically to high to refuse anything anymore.

 

This is an actual psychological compliance technique, and is used in negotiations everywhere, from business, to interpersonal, to political. It's the "door in the face technique" opposed to the "foot in the door technique" which is what I've been mildly advocating so far. It's where a major request is made, in order to make a later (desired) request seem more reasonable by comparison, and likely to be accepted.


Basically, it simulates this: the captor wants the PC to submit to, say, wearing the collar. So, the lead-up is requesting the PC to whore themselves out for their captor, which the captor knows will be rejected out of hand. But, by making that request first, wearing the collar will seem a more reasonable concession to ask by comparison, and it's more likely the PC will accept it. But, by accepting it then, the captor knows the PC will end up habituated to obedience in the long run, and will eventually submit to being whored out anyways.


Whether or not it's a fun game play mechanic is up for debate (I think it is). But, it is realistic, and contextually consistent.

From what I know you about psychology I agree with that, however this is also a game and while it is a technique to break the slave, it may just be to easy a mechanic inside the game to enforce a new slave level when the PC is trying his best to remain at his current level.


Somewhere along the wall of text you suggested a alternate method of choosing with "you dont want to do A, now suffer B" with an even worse result which forces the player to really think about what he wants to agree to do because the alternative might be even worse. Thats a good idea with a lot of potential behind it because you really have to think about what you do.

 

[Hermit]

Any way to enable the debug :3

 

[Raval]

Tried the game and I enjoyed it. There's not a great deal of this kind of submissive gameplay out there and I can see alot of potential for it. I'm excited to see where you take it and I wish you the best of luck, but I can't say I don't have trepidation. A game is a major investment in time and effort, and most attempts are abandoned after a while. I would love for you to see this though to the end, start up a Patreon for it maybe (financial incentive is a great motivator to stick with something), but I have a bad feeling that you're gonna go at it for a few months and then move on. Especially since this is, as you said, your first attempt, and it isn't the kind of thing that really fits on a resume. I know you probably don't plan to, and I don't mean any offense, in case you take it that way, but I've seen to many free games that are 'worked on in their spare time' disappear for one reason or another. Still, as I said, best of luck and I look forward to seeing what you create in the meantime. On that note, here's a few thoughts I had while I was playing:


1. You said this was kinda inspired from the COC prisoner mod (a prime example of disappearing dev). Have you considered including any petplay options? A leash on your collar, being put in a kennel, getting petted, a tail plug, having another master/mistress bring their pet over to 'play' (give you a way to include fighting besides trying to break out), there are many punishments and demands that could fit in.


2. It seems like the game moves kind of fast. I went male/mistress and when I played, Surrendr starts out and she will almost immediately go with calling her mistress and then follow it up with collar unless you refuse. It would be nice if there was a required number of turns between demands that increase slave level, or at least a limit to the number of times she can come to you in a row, just to slow things down. In addition to that, one of her first demands (besides increasing levels) was to peg you. That seem a bit heavy for the first day. You might consider adding more scenes for each part of you (oral, anal, bondage, etc)  and gradually unlocking them as your sexual experience increases.


For instance, anal sex:

• Level 0: she fingers you.
  
• Level 1: She uses a prostate massager.
  
• Level 2, A small dildo (or hotdogging for a master)
  
• Level 3 A strapon (or anal sex for a master)
  
• Level 4: A 'special' (vibrating, or animal shaped, etc) strapon (or bareback for a master)
  
• Level 5: She brings a friend and DP's you.
  

Incrementally increasing the sex acts she performs independent of the submission level would also give you the ability to give your character a dynamic response to them. A defiant slave would probably be horrified at taking a strapon (even if he had to agreed to it), while a willing slave would beg for more. It would also give you a sense of progression even if you were managing to refuse to increase your slave level (which at this point is a gateway to the higher things) as well as adding a way to ramp up difficulty over time without just completely disabling you via punishments (pegged with a special strapon would increase submissiveness a lot more than just being fingered).


3. Lastly, it would also be nice if there was a special scene the first time you perform a certain act. The first time she uses a strapon and pops your cherry should be a memorable and humiliating occasion, and she should comment on that.


That's it for now. Hope the game turns out great, and remember: never hard code anything that you might even consider making variable later!

 

[Namorax]

One thing that irritated me to no end was how a scene with my captor would end... and then the next thing I clock on would be "Your captor approaches.".
It gave me the feeling that time suddenly skipped (it didn't, it only ticked ine increment ahead), leaving me no chance to recover from the last "round". It managed to lock me in a spiral of submission where I would be unable to do anything except masturbate and submit/perform, because once my captor is "done" wth one scene (reducing my Willpower), he/she immediately "returns" to kick me while I'm down.

Furthermore, I do understand from a gameplay perspective why it tells me which day/daytime it is, but how would someone locked into a sexdungeon know that? Maybe add an option to hide that one line to increase the feeling of realism?


Anyway, something I kinda missed was a way to turn things around after beating up my captor. Why is my character not making sure the captor doesn't get up again? It's not like there are no things like handcuffs or other restrictions lying around, right? It might be against the purpose of the game (which seems to be to play as a submissive), but right now it doesn't feel to me like there's a point in trying "to win".
The way this game was introduced to me was that i "win" by not submitting to my captor... I managed to beat my captor once (before my captor locked me into a spiral of submission that is impossible to break), and I was apparently lucky enough to find the key on my first try (it was in the hallway IIRC). But then... nothing.
My only options were to either "get caught again" or "get to work".

I guess I wanted to point out that there doesn't seem to be a point in trying to win... it's difficult to get away from the captor and even if one manages to do that, there is no "reward" (aka sex scenes... because thats why we play THIS kind of game^^). It would be one thing if the game skips to day 30/60/90 where the game would've ended normally, but this feels like I'm off somewhere else where nothing ever happens while the game waits patiently for me to move my butt back onto that dildo in the dark sexdungeon with my name on the door.
Having the option to turn the tables would be interesting IMO, because it feels like the "customers" wouldn't care if it's me or my captor they can watch on the webcam. Maybe the captor can also try to escape/fight? That at least would give me (as a player) an incentive to think about resisting instead of spamming submission.

 

[Varlance]

Just checking in to say that development continues. I take on board the comments here and some of the balance issues have been tweaked for the next version. I have also implemented a Captor Disposition stat to address more fundamental issues with how the game events work. This will take some time to get up and running properly. A win condition has been added to the next version. Dominant sex scenes for beating your captor are a good idea and I'll add that to my list.

I'm being made redundant at work unfortunately which is going to impact my progress. So, at the moment I'm looking at a 0.1.3 release hopefully next week, followed by a long gap until 0.1.4.

 

[pandoramail]

Spend two good hours with this one, thanks ataraxia! Hope you can develop if further, I always appreciated the forced sub / slave / abducted and forced into pervy activities against your will scenarios and themes. It's pretty bare-bones right now, but I see great potential.

 

[frost_death]

I think that owner should use bondage devices not only for punishment, but for his/her own amusement. Plus you could add pictures of those devices for better immersion. And Mistress women miss lots of opportunities of sex, just check how CoC Prisoner works. I think that game shouldn't be very reallistic and should have a lot of "hormone" transformations, maybe other fetishes about infestation. Also amount of cum on your body should have any impact on your character. But i've enjoyed it, you have good writing.

 

[karunama]

I think that owner should use bondage devices not only for punishment, but for his/her own amusement. Plus you could add pictures of those devices for better immersion. And Mistress women miss lots of opportunities of sex, just check how CoC Prisoner works. I think that game shouldn't be very reallistic and should have a lot of "hormone" transformations, maybe other fetishes about infestation. Also amount of cum on your body should have any impact on your character. But i've enjoyed it, you have good writing.

On the first point, I agree.

Pictures aren't really necessary, and I personally feel they might actually detract a bit from the experience, but that's just me.

Can't speak to the mistress bit cuz I would never willingly subject myself to a sexual experience of any kind that involved a female.

ugh, hormone transformations? Yuck. MtF games are everywhere. They're practically inescapable. Don't ruin a good thing to make it just like every other game I wouldn't ever play. Besides that, going in too many directions is a good way to ruin a project with lack of focus. Right now it does one thing and it does it well. That should be enough, IMO.

 

[Mario]

On the first point, I agree.

Pictures aren't really necessary, and I personally feel they might actually detract a bit from the experience, but that's just me.

Can't speak to the mistress bit cuz I would never willingly subject myself to a sexual experience of any kind that involved a female.

ugh, hormone transformations? Yuck. MtF games are everywhere. They're practically inescapable. Don't ruin a good thing to make it just like every other game I wouldn't ever play. Besides that, going in too many directions is a good way to ruin a project with lack of focus. Right now it does one thing and it does it well. That should be enough, IMO.

+1 ... no need to make it another mandatory tf-game. They are already abundant. It may be a part of it if the player so chooses at the start but please don't force it on the player!

Another point altogether: servicing clients is a bit to random. The number of clients the player gets to serve is ranging from 3 up to 13 (my record), making it impossible to get a bad result out of it, even If you try to reject clients. Every denial of service costs 20 Willpower and with clients numbering easily up to 8 or 10 you quickly expend all Willpower, have to serve still a lot of clients and finish with your captor being pleased of the performance of the player. Don't ge me wrong, its not being forced to service a lot of clients as such, but the Willpower-hit you take is either to high for each refusal or there should be a counter that leaves the captor angry once you reject at least 2 or 3 clients, no matter how many clients there are.
Also, on this point, even if you pick a M/M scenario (the only one I tested and really care about), the number of female clients fucking the player with strap-ons is alarmingly high ... round about 50%, or even more. Thats .... disappointing because its defenitly not the same whether you get fucked by a man or woman with a strap-on.

This also applies to the re-use of the surrendr-app after the escape. Half the time the new date is female, even if I unmark the M/F option at the start of the game. I feel, this could be fixed easily .

 

[frost_death]

ugh, hormone transformations? Yuck. MtF games are everywhere. They're practically inescapable. Don't ruin a good thing to make it just like every other game I wouldn't ever play. Besides that, going in too many directions is a good way to ruin a project with lack of focus. Right now it does one thing and it does it well. That should be enough, IMO.

As you can see

>Planned development:
>Add gender transformation content

Do you mean that author should add this only as surgical?

 

[karunama]

If it must be added at all, it shouldn't be mandatory, that's what I'm saying. Honestly, I'd rather it wasn't added at all. Doubly so if it was added as a 'the more submissive you are, the girlier you look/are'. Guys can be submissive without being super feminine as a result.

 

[frost_death]

If it must be added at all, it shouldn't be mandatory, that's what I'm saying. Honestly, I'd rather it wasn't added at all. Doubly so if it was added as a 'the more submissive you are, the girlier you look/are'. Guys can be submissive without being super feminine as a result.

When you launch the game, you can choose to deactivate different themes, and transgender theme is on the deactivating list even with the fact that it's not complete.

 

[art926]

If it must be added at all, it shouldn't be mandatory, that's what I'm saying. Honestly, I'd rather it wasn't added at all. Doubly so if it was added as a 'the more submissive you are, the girlier you look/are'. Guys can be submissive without being super feminine as a result.

I agree. It's a stupid concept when you play game as a male character, and every sex action leads the hero to become a transgender. TF gamessite is full of such games and it's unclear to me who makes them. Is it such a big turn on for straight guys to imagine how they turn into a women?... Hard to believe. But I don't find it hot either, though I'm a gay. So, is it an army of lesbians somewhere around who make such games?....

 

[Mario]

I agree. It's a stupid concept when you play game as a male character, and every sex action leads the hero to become a transgender. TF gamessite is full of such games and it's unclear to me who makes them. Is it such a big turn on for straight guys to imagine how they turn into a women?... Hard to believe. But I don't find it hot either, though I'm a gay. So, is it an army of lesbians somewhere around who make such games?....

Its a mystery to me as well, although I asked once for an explanation whats so appealing about that in the General Stuff subforum. Still can't really tell who is so keen about that transformation thing. It is kind of anoying how many games revolve around this "guy gets turned into a woman every time he bends over" type of games. Its actually pretty pretty sad this is so common. Some of the games are actually pretty good in writing and mechanic, but sooner or later there comes a point when its over being a guy and its now boob-time. It would be nice to see a lot of games where Male on Male Sex would NOT lead to that result (just for those of us who like M/M content because it is ... well ... gay ). Its definitly not a gay thing to fantasize about being turned into a woman. Some seem to thing that way, however.

cutting to the point: This game has for now the option of avoiding transformation and thats fantastic. If transformation becomes mandatory like in most other games it would stop being interesting for me and some others guys as well.

 

[Varlance]

Hey guys, just to weigh in on the TF thing, it is indeed optional.

I think one of the reasons for TF content being popular is actually the fact that the TFgamessite is around. I don't know of any other comparable site hosting sex games or connecting all the major developers in one place (that I know of). Someone should set up a site for that purpose. If there was a site for purely M/M content-themed games maybe we'd see more of it.

Btw, game development is still on. Not much to report yet. I'm kind of half way through the current round of improvements I wanted to make.

 

[Marblak]

Not to stick my head in the gay lions' mouths, but I am a straight man and I enjoy MTF TF content. MANY people seem to enjoy it. People make TF content games, because that is what people want, laddies. I'd say you two need to do a self-check before you go insulting other people's fetishes. You two enjoy M/M content. That is a fetish as well. Albeit, a much more common fetish, to be sure! No hard feelings either way, but I did want to point out it seems silly to bemoan a popular fetish merely because it is not YOUR fetish.

 

[Mario]

Not to stick my head in the gay lions' mouths, but I am a straight man and I enjoy MTF TF content. MANY people seem to enjoy it. People make TF content games, because that is what people want, laddies. I'd say you two need to do a self-check before you go insulting other people's fetishes. You two enjoy M/M content. That is a fetish as well. Albeit, a much more common fetish, to be sure! No hard feelings either way, but I did want to point out it seems silly to bemoan a popular fetish merely because it is not YOUR fetish.

Well ... stating M/M is a fetish would be like saying M/F is fetish. Interesting mind set, but I am not going to argue about that.
I wonder where you felt insulted merely by the observation that there are many more TF games with the MTF in it then there are games with pure M/M in it (without the subsequent MTF, that is). You may enjoy this particular part of the game and I find it interesting just as an information per se to read you are a straight male and like this content. Thats not meant to be judgemental, just a curious piece on information.
Nevertheless the amount of games forcing this on the player as part of the game mechanic, and often enough triggered by a kind of M/M sex with the MC being the submissive part and then getting transformed into a women is just something many games offer already. Sometimes, in the coments below, you can read about how gay that is. Thats kind of triggering as well, because it implies gay men would like to be female deep down (you know, because liking to get mounted by a hunk = you have to think like a girl, so now you can play out as you turn into one). Can't speak for everyone, but I have yet to meet a gay guy who thinks like that.

However, the whole point of the discussion so far here was about wether this should include mandatory TF or not, and we simply pointed out our wish to beware from that. The game is good as it is now, but mandatory TF would "kill" the game for some. Are we not allowed to voice that concern? I don't care if a game included optional MtF transformation if thats you cup of tea, but I won't bother to pay them attention because it ain't mine. Now what's sad and sometimes annoying bit is how, for example at tfgames, a good load of games has M/M as a content discreption but follows this narrative of being transformend just by that. Given that some seem to have the opinion thats what being gay is about (like mentioned before ... you like gettting fucked by guys, so you are basically a girl in your head already), that is kind of bothering.

 

[TheDarkMaster]

I can understand someone being frustrated by running into their turn offs again and again because the games don't properly disclose their included fetishes and pairing. However, at this point harping on mandatory M2F content in this game after the author has already said that won't be the case (and is clearly stated in the game's new game menu) is just beating a dead horse. Please drop the subject.

 

[Erasmus]

Just downloaded this, already hooked. I like the core system of stats and options, and the interface is nice and readable. The only thing I would ask for is some color in the text, especially for stat descriptions or varying options, so that it's easy to see what my numbers are at a glance, or what options are currently unavailable (e.g. "too aroused to masturbate" having a different color than plain white text). Actually, second request would be more vertical text alignment, especially for stats. The dialogue options are presented in a good way, and more of that makes it overall more readable.

Great game already!

 

[karunama]

Not to stick my head in the gay lions' mouths, but I am a straight man and I enjoy MTF TF content. MANY people seem to enjoy it. People make TF content games, because that is what people want, laddies. I'd say you two need to do a self-check before you go insulting other people's fetishes. You two enjoy M/M content. That is a fetish as well. Albeit, a much more common fetish, to be sure! No hard feelings either way, but I did want to point out it seems silly to bemoan a popular fetish merely because it is not YOUR fetish.

Not to beat a dead horse, but M/M is *not* a fetish.

That is all.

 

[frost_death]

So, the project is hibernated for unknown time or we are going to find updates anytime soon?

 

[Fallenger]

Indeed, really looking forward the next release...

 

[atar]

Pretty sure it is dead.

 

[Pernitax]

This is a really cool ona, shame if it went the way of the dodo...

 

[WaffleWarrior]

Hey, I try to download the games but it has an error pop-up then shows a loading screen after opening Microsoft edge, and loads forever. I don't know if I have to be more patient or maybe be on a different browser? Please help.

 

[karunama]

Hey, I try to download the games but it has an error pop-up then shows a loading screen after opening Microsoft edge, and loads forever. I don't know if I have to be more patient or maybe be on a different browser? Please help.

This project is dead. You may have noticed the last reply before yours mentioned this *two years ago* >_>