world building adult game brainstorm

[UltimaTiger]

Hi guys gals and non binary pals!

I am working on an adult game mostly in the hoby/idea phase. I want to separate the sexual corruption/purity component from the good/evil of most games porn or otherwise to create a game with as much of a sex positive view of sex as possible while still catering to the wide variety of possible sexual fetish type scenarios.

So I wanted to create a space for other adult game creator/consumers to get together and talk about what works well in the game genre and what does not, especially as we often work in extremely small teams and have to learn as many animation or programming techniques as possible.

for example the Breeding Season game was great in concept, core mechanics, ect but the way they were going about animating the sex scenes would have taken literally years. but using a different method of animating could have created several core body types and simple 2d skeletal animations they would have had the skeletal animation for say a medium body w/ dick/strapon fucking another model missionary style, then as they could add art to the game the variety of things that could have fucked each other using the missionary animation and small tweaks would have grown. but they were animating each possible pairing separately. then they could have added mechanics for teaching new sex moves to the monsters or something to effect the possible animations of that monster.

now I could totally be wrong in my assessment of what happened with that game, but it seems to me like all of the failed games are as valuable to other creators as the consistently successful ones like TITS.


as for the sexual corruption = evil morality problem; so far My main idea of how to fix this is to use the DnD Law/Chaos, Good/Evil alignment spectrum but replace law/chaos with Purity/Corruption. i will put up a diagram to help in a bit but basically something like an angel would be both highly pure and good, while a succubus might be very corrupt and evil, but you end up with a lot more in between possibilities, like basic skeleton might be pure evil but neutral on the pure/corrupt spectrum, and like a wolf or slime might be neutral on both.



edit:
Chart is only for basic reference, everyones alignment will change slowly based on actions.

The world idea I am working with is that you are a god/Spirit ruling a small pocket dimension, and a dungeon. parties of heros or monsters will raid your dungeon for loot and exp, then leave, your little world supplies the dungeon with loot, monsters. you gain mana(your main resource) from the heros wasting energy, potions, cum in your dungeon. dead monsters and heros get recycled to gain most crafting Mats. but other materials and mana could be gained from acts of debauchery or purity too. spend mana to create more monsters, and stuff.

Eventually send out your own parties of heros or monsters to get loot, capture new types of monsters, ect.

Plot core:
you are a Crystal core housing the essence of a lost or forgotten god, you are tasked with operating a dungeon for the amusement of heros, around your crystal core you build your world, add land to farm, houses for people, workshops to make things for your dungeon, ect. each in game turn you task your creatures with things, then in between turns is when you resolve events, your dungeon gets attacked, etc. A magic crown allows your god to posses the wearer so your character may act directly instead of just sending guys off to do things.

 

[Obscure]

Placing NPCs on an alignment diagram like this is foolish. How the alignment of the player is affected by the various actions of NPCs is important.

Any-woosle. I think an actual history of your world might be important.

 

[UltimaTiger]

i was only planning on this being a basic guide to how i was reworking the idea of morality, each individual angel will be a bit different, and you might be able to debauch a captured angel till she was a sex slave or something, but most angels would tend toward the extreme end of good and purity. yourself, each person in your world would have their own dot on the alignment chart. but so would the city/society you make. Micro and Macro alignments, if you see what I mean. angels might be recruited from a good/pure world, then change overtime as they adapt to the society of your world.

 

[stuntcock]

Any-woosle. I think an actual history of your world might be important.

I think he's saying "let's talk about <x> and I may subsequently use some of these insights when building my game" rather than "please tell me how to use <x> in my game."

Of course, "let's talk about the adult game genre" is very open-ended. And it seems unlikely that a single thread could include post-mortem analysis of failed projects, comparison of 2d animation techniques, and discussion of morality systems. You'd probably just end up with a few groups of people angrily talking past each other, fanboying their favorite games, complaining about censorship, and listing their preferred fetishes

So a few concrete ideas or examples (e.g. from the history of a proposed gameworld) might help to spur discussion.

each person in your world would have their own dot on the alignment chart. but so would the city/society you make.

I'm confused. Is "you" in this sentence referring to the game developer or the player? Is the morality-grid idea intended as an aid for writers (e.g. Myers-Briggs personality types) or as an actual game mechanic that would be presented visually during play?

 

[Klaptrap]

A post-mortem of most failed porn games would include, in big bright letters, "bit off more than they could chew". I'd recommend against large systems or redefining the wheel, especially if you are a group of unpaid enthusiasts who treat the whole thing as a learning experience. All it takes is one person to think "this aint fun no more" and the project is as good as kaput.

 

[Obscure]

i was only planning on this being a basic guide to how i was reworking the idea of morality, each individual angel will be a bit different, and you might be able to debauch a captured angel till she was a sex slave or something, but most angels would tend toward the extreme end of good and purity. yourself, each person in your world would have their own dot on the alignment chart. but so would the city/society you make. Micro and Macro alignments, if you see what I mean. angels might be recruited from a good/pure world, then change overtime as they adapt to the society of your world.

Randomly recruiting random creatures with random stats? That is a hefty workload.

So a few concrete ideas or examples (e.g. from the history of a proposed gameworld) might help to spur discussion.

It is generally assumed that games involve conflict because fighting mechanics are so well explored. It is assumed that there is sex in excessively large amounts.

These two things can be explained separately or unified into a sexual conflict that needs only be explained once.

An example of this might be a certain interpretation of the formation of Texas. Immigrants roll into a republic that does not support slavery and thus rebels against that government for the right to own slaves.

The eroticisation of this event can be simply cemented by placing the word "sex" before the word "slave."

But of course this might undercut the notion of sex positiveness as described in the OP. But it might also serve to highlight sex positiveness if sex negativeness is used to contrast it.

 

[UltimaTiger]

wow thanks guys

Of course, "let's talk about the adult game genre" is very open-ended. And it seems unlikely that a single thread could include post-mortem analysis of failed projects, comparison of 2d animation techniques, and discussion of morality systems. You'd probably just end up with a few groups of people angrily talking past each other, fanboying their favorite games, complaining about censorship, and listing their preferred fetishes

you are correct, I did bite off more than I can chew in this thread idea, however in the past my attempts at sparking discussions of any kind about the adult game genre was met with minimal enthusiasm or useful response. so I may have just tossed all the ideas buzzing in my head at that moment at the wall to see what stuck. rather then try to start a coherent discussion about my game. It was only today that I had the morality idea, which helped me merge in my mind all my ideas to make a city/dungeon sim game. with my desire to make sex positive adult games. and you folks have already given me more fuel for my brainstorm then I had hoped.

So a few concrete ideas or examples (e.g. from the history of a proposed gameworld) might help to spur discussion.

I will keep adding it to the original post as we go, and try to answer questions as the thread progresses.

Randomly recruiting random creatures with random stats? That is a hefty workload.

no, I was thinking of just using a base stat line for like 90% of creatures, so only Heros have real stat progression. you have for example 10 normal goblins they may each have a value attached to them to indicate a few traits like gender, sexuality, but they will all look basically the same, most in game sprites are going to be super simple as I am not a great artist. Then you would have a Goblin Chief, who would have a much more extensive stat line, alignment, a few skills, and a class. you may be able to train a basic goblin up to being a hero as well to make a whole adventuring party of goblins, or you may try to get Heros of other races, like basic Slimes might upgrade to a slime girl hero.

These two things can be explained separately or unified into a sexual conflict that needs only be explained once.

An example of this might be a certain interpretation of the formation of Texas. Immigrants roll into a republic that does not support slavery and thus rebels against that government for the right to own slaves.

The eroticisation of this event can be simply cemented by placing the word "sex" before the word "slave."

But of course this might undercut the notion of sex positiveness as described in the OP. But it might also serve to highlight sex positiveness if sex negativeness is used to contrast it.

<3 all This
All conflict will be in the "a party invades a dungeon" format how sexual that conflict is will depend on who made the dungeon, but so will how actually dangerous the dungeon is. each dungeon will be quite unique and every time a party leaves the survivors report on how much fun they had, how hard it was, just enough so that your dungeon has some variable stats that will change the types of creatures that invade, or the classes that frequent it, etc.

as for the Texas example, ya I would call a state that practiced slavery evil, but the sexuality of the state/world would depend on other factors, a world with common sex slaves would probably fall under the debauched/evil column, whereas a state with a legal sex trade might be debauched/neutral and a world with a lot of naked and willing angels might be debauched/Good.

 

[Cog]

I'm intrigued by the dissociation of purity/corruption from good/evil. I've always disliked the term 'corruption,' as it seems to indicated a rottenness or perversion about open sexuality. In particular, I really, really like the game concept of moving from sexual restriction to sexual license. Even better if the movement is on a societal level rather than an individual one. Unfortunately, so many games tend to treat such a movement as comparable to a movement from good to evil. So many games that are listed as having 'corruption' themes involve moral corruption beyond sexuality, which does not attract me at all. Why would a truly sexually free society force humiliation or pain on unwilling subjects? It strikes me as very strange that even a site like this seems to draw people who think of purity as synonymous with altruism, and impurity as synonymous with egoism.

As far as ideas go, it sounds like you're trying to create something that could be like a sexy version of Dungeon Keeper, which isn't a bad thought. Darot Games is doing something similar with city builders. However, if you're planning on allowing the player to choose any one of the nine alignments, I think Klaptrap might be right about the likely size of this project. I'd recommend narrowing your focus a bit. Perhaps focus on just the 'corrupt/neutral' path. I haven't read this, so I don't know if the actual series is any good, but the synopsis for this light novel series appears to be the sort of thing you're going for.

 

[UltimaTiger]

I'm confused. Is "you" in this sentence referring to the game developer or the player? Is the morality-grid idea intended as an aid for writers (e.g. Myers-Briggs personality types) or as an actual game mechanic that would be presented visually during play?

I was referring to the player, you the player will be a god or spirit of some kind in control of a small pocket world. the morality grid is a modified version of What DnD uses for character alignment , in game I intend for your placement to be based on 2 stats that create your x and Y positions on that grid. so I guess I meant to discuss it both as an in game mechanic, but also a tool others can use if they want.

 

[UltimaTiger]

As far as ideas go, it sounds like you're trying to create something that could be like a sexy version of Dungeon Keeper,

yup basically

I've always disliked the term 'corruption,' as it seems to indicated a rottenness or perversion about open sexuality. In particular, I really, really like the game concept of moving from sexual restriction to sexual license. Even better if the movement is on a societal level rather than an individual one. Unfortunately, so many games tend to treat such a movement as comparable to a movement from good to evil. So many games that are listed as having 'corruption' themes involve moral corruption beyond sexuality, which does not attract me at all. Why would a truly sexually free society force humiliation or pain on unwilling subjects?

honestly that feeling is exactly why I want to do this, I have been a part of a lot of sex positive culture, but I so rarely do I see any of that reflected in the adult entertainment I ingest. I want a game where consent can be sexy, and poly or bi people aren't automatically evil.

 

[karunama]

I don't know if it would be too much work to have every alignment available for players, but you may want to start doing them one at a time. Ofc, that depends on your resources and workflow; after all, if at a certain point in the game, you need 'hero' units that require much more resources to make than dozens of 'normal' units, it might be wiser to just make all the normals and then do the heroes one at a time.

I do have questions though; If you have a debauched/good dungeon, is it possible that it will be completely combat free? For example, a dungeon people learn to go to to get their rocks off, have a good time with the local satyrs, fauns, etc.?

Will characters that like that sort of thing or despise it be more likely to show up? For example, Pure/Evil 'heroes' may want to cleanse such a dungeon from existence vs debauched/good heroes that want to just have a good time there. Will the dungeon builder need to prepare for both kinds?

Does the player 'choose' an alignment at the beginning, or can they simply make the dungeon that they like, with the npcs reacting based on what they see/experience?

Edit; I'm fully aware you might not know the answers to these questions, but IMO that makes them doubly worth asking so that you can answer them for yourself, at the very least. Oh, and rather than 'Pure', 'Chaste' is probably a better word for the sexless types. You avoid some of the more annoying connotations that way.

 

[UltimaTiger]

I don't know if it would be too much work to have every alignment available for players, but you may want to start doing them one at a time. Ofc, that depends on your resources and workflow; after all, if at a certain point in the game, you need 'hero' units that require much more resources to make than dozens of 'normal' units, it might be wiser to just make all the normals and then do the heroes one at a time.

I do have questions though; If you have a debauched/good dungeon, is it possible that it will be completely combat free? For example, a dungeon people learn to go to to get their rocks off, have a good time with the local satyrs, fauns, etc.?

Will characters that like that sort of thing or despise it be more likely to show up? For example, Pure/Evil 'heroes' may want to cleanse such a dungeon from existence vs debauched/good heroes that want to just have a good time there. Will the dungeon builder need to prepare for both kinds?

Does the player 'choose' an alignment at the beginning, or can they simply make the dungeon that they like, with the npcs reacting based on what they see/experience?

Edit; I'm fully aware you might not know the answers to these questions, but IMO that makes them doubly worth asking so that you can answer them for yourself, at the very least. Oh, and rather than 'Pure', 'Chaste' is probably a better word for the sexless types. You avoid some of the more annoying connotations that way.

Thanks on the chaste thing,i was using it briefly at first, but i got so focused on calling the corruption side of the spectrum debauchery instead to try and shed some of the more negative phrasing I forgot to think about making sure the chaste side of the spectrum was well represented, i want to make sure the stat is just based on how often, and how extreme the sex the person has is, the actual in game effect will probably be minimal most of the time, could even just be limited to changing the colour of the characters particle effects or something(like a chaste persons magic is blue and debauched persons is red)

having the variable alignments available to each hero type unit would be quite easy basically two values that range from say -100 to 100 with 0,0 being the wolf in the dead center, a wolf that mates would gain points on the chaste/debauched stat, moving them closer to Debauched while a lone wolf would lose points over time making them more chaste. the hard part will be balancing the stat gain/loss so that a creature that follows its natural reproductive cycle would average out to 0 on that scale. magical chaste creatures like a classic angel, might not even have to reproduce sexually, it could be that a good enough world naturally spawns them, or they clone themselves or something. and so on the other end super debauched creatures like a succubus might be able to get pregnant from anything and still make another succubus.

I was thinking you and your world would start neutral on both scales and you would be able to chose 1 or 2 starting races of weak monsters for your world/dungeon, so your starting dungeon might just be a cave with some basic blue slimes and dead body in the back you can loot an item off of. then you build onto it over time.

and yes many types of dungeons could end up being combat free depending on who/what is visiting it, even the hallway of slimes could draw in say a slime girl hero who your slimes try to convince to join you,or maybe they sell some items to her, mate with her giving you a chance to birth a slime girl instead of the basic blob kind.

a dungeon intended to be non-combat, full of sexy creatures and encounters might still have to fight a party of Paladins who think that only the chaste and good deserve to live, this is all speculation i am unsure how hard will be to implement, but this is my hope.

 

[Cog]

Hmm... I agree that 'pure' is the wrong word for what we're trying to communicate, but I'm not sure 'chaste' is any better. After all, it means (effectively) 'morally pure', and, contrary to popular belief, does not mean 'sexless' even as a religious term. 'Celebate' is the sexless version. 'Chaste' refers less to not having sex, and more to just not thinking about sex much... which, come to think of it, may actually be a good term in this situation - so long as we don't mistake it for 'sexless.'

 

[UltimaTiger]

see I think I might stick with Chaste just because I already have another idea for how a vow of celibacy is different versus just not getting laid for a while. they change the speed which your chaste/debauchery stat changes, but also the consequences of having sex would be much greater for someone breaking a vow. I may also do it so that celibate is a status gained for maxing out chastity. but i think that the idea of chastity works better on a gradient then celibacy(even if only just barely).

debauchery is still far from ideal wording, but it is the best i have so far.

 

[TheDarkMaster]

Interesting that you swapped off law/chaos and kept good/evil. I always felt like the good/evil axis was far more artificial than the other, it's usually the one that I ignore or replace when coming up with alignment systems.

As for what the new axis could be, one possibility is emotion vs logic or love/lust vs apathy.

 

[karunama]

Interesting that you swapped off law/chaos and kept good/evil. I always felt like the good/evil axis was far more artificial than the other, it's usually the one that I ignore or replace when coming up with alignment systems.

As for what the new axis could be, one possibility is emotion vs logic or love/lust vs apathy.

If I'm being honest, I've always hated the good/evil dynamic because it's so over done. That said, if you're reaching for well understood fantasy creatures, the good/evil cliche is incredibly easy to draw from, and much to my chagrin, is typically very user friendly.

 

[TheDarkMaster]

If I'm being honest, I've always hated the good/evil dynamic because it's so over done. That said, if you're reaching for well understood fantasy creatures, the good/evil cliche is incredibly easy to draw from, and much to my chagrin, is typically very user friendly.

Easy, but very shallow. My personal preference is to replace it with the light/dark axis. This represents truth, justice, and belief vs deception, forgiveness, and trust.

 

[Obscure]

Well there is also the perception of good and evil as compared to the facts of the thing.

A succubus that runs an orphanage is still seen as evil. I mean she's just feeding the poor waifs so that they can grow up to be poorly adjusted and rootless human beings that easily fall into villainy and debauchery. How can they sin if they starve to death as children after all?

Meanwhile an angel running the orphanage across the street does the exact same job with the exact same results and is considered good.

Additionally if the angel crosses the street to burn down the demonic orphanage she is doing good just as it is evil in the vice versa.

 

[Cog]

I always replaced 'good' and 'evil' in my own head with 'altruistic' and 'egoistic,' which I think works a lot better. A DnD 'good' type tends to work towards some societal or other-focused uplifting greater than themselves, while the only really common theme among the 'evil' types is that they're all completely self-centered. I'm sure there's a ton of problems with that spectrum as well, but it's at least easier to measure!

Of course, the added benefit in this case is that you can absolutely have a sexually promiscuous character who is still completely altruistic, like Qum D'umpe from The Last Sovereign.

 

[UltimaTiger]

ya i think i want to keep good and evil in, partially because of the user friendly nature of the system, but also because i want to highlight the separation of lust from evil, it is ultimately the goal of the games morality system. so if i change what i call good and evil that separation becomes less clear and obscures the message of the medium. ultimately i want to have demons who run orphanages for monster babies to have to fight off the occasional paladin or other such "do gooder" who thinks they are purifying the world of the unclean monsters. They, and the demon protecting the children would, both be doing what they view as good deeds, thus ultimately highlighting the true subjective nature of good and evil.

to quote a creature from the goblins webcomic:
"That is why evil is winning. When two good creatures disagree, they assume the other to be evil. but when two evil creatures disagree they dont assume the other is good. They just .......... disagree"

 

[Cripple_Tom]

"... basically something like an angel would be both highly pure and good, while a succubus might be very corrupt and evil, but you end up with a lot more in between possibilities, like basic skeleton might be pure evil but neutral on the pure/corrupt spectrum..."

Yo don't even kid, skeletons are pure as fuck.

They don't even have dicks

 

[Klaptrap]

Thanks for necroing this year old thread to share your opinion on skeletons.

 

[Marblak]

Well, he IS a necromancer. Did you expect him to NOT talk about skeletons?

 

[TheDarkMaster]

Thanks for necroing this year old thread to share your opinion on skeletons.

Six months, but I agree with the sentiment.