I'm just curious....We know in Japan there is a huge following for H-style games, yet in the west, when somebody does try to make H-games they normally get very little or no backing/sales, why is it that people aren't interested in this kind of thing in the UK where I'm from, or many other western countries? I'm curious to hear your thoughts on the subject.
Why are H-games not recognised in the west?
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I can't speak to the UK, but puritanical views of sex still largely apply in the US. Not sure how long that will last when women being asked to not wear thong swimsuits and/or breastfeed on the pool's edge with children around is getting surprisingly negative reactions online, but for now it's still true. Especially among advertisers who don't want to risk offending the overly religious by advertising on anything sexual. Since ads go a long way to funding entertainment to keep it affordable small startups can't do well enough to make it big. Fen's success on offbeatr is still a far cry from the success of AAA companies and even Indie hits like Minecraft.
Japan exists in a weird limbo where perversion is both openly accepted and frowned upon at the same time. Sure, you can buy panties in vending machines and recognize (technically illegal) brothels by the color of their door. But nudity, even in pornography, and violence in media are both subject to extreme censorship laws. That's why hentai has to be decensored when it ships to the West.
Japan exists in a weird limbo where perversion is both openly accepted and frowned upon at the same time. Sure, you can buy panties in vending machines and recognize (technically illegal) brothels by the color of their door. But nudity, even in pornography, and violence in media are both subject to extreme censorship laws. That's why hentai has to be decensored when it ships to the West.
Do we? I think Tinman hit the nail on the head, but I don't have enough information to claim otherwise and I don't want to assume things.
Answering your question, erotic games are a niche genre because due to their +18 nature they're not mainstream or something you can sell to everyone. Or advertise, for that matter. After all, some of these games contain kinks that can be incredibly out there for your average folk who think that anal sex is gross or how using sex dolls is for losers who can't get laid.
I'm not a Steam user, but I could have sworn I read on this forum that some games are being added in their uncensored glory, so time will tell whether that could be an opportunity for fans, those who are reluctant to play those games and those who wonder whether they exist yet have zero idea on how to start looking for them and finding smut that caters to their interests.
There is such a thing as Compensated Dating over there, I guess it's just another form of prostitution and is legal I think? Can't be sure... haven't really read up on it. Japan is just one of those weird places where a LOT, A HECK OF A LOT of fetishes have made a breakout.
The short answer is that prudery and corporate structures prevented any kind of official support for smutty video games in the West and so the idea is only just now catching on; the Western erogame scene is in its very early infancy. When Fenoxo got into it there basically were none and his example is one of the very few beacons in a largely dark and unexplored area despite the niche nature of the content.
Copyright law works differently in Area 11 so there's a bustling fan scene for drawing lewd comics and making simple porn games. Video games in general were also a much more formative medium so more people thought to make games instead of just getting off to videos or pictures. In most senses the West is always playing catch up to Japan when it comes to video games.
So for now there's going to continue to be a huge disparity in both the amount of porn games and their general quality.
Copyright law works differently in Area 11 so there's a bustling fan scene for drawing lewd comics and making simple porn games. Video games in general were also a much more formative medium so more people thought to make games instead of just getting off to videos or pictures. In most senses the West is always playing catch up to Japan when it comes to video games.
So for now there's going to continue to be a huge disparity in both the amount of porn games and their general quality.
It's similar to escort services but it's literally paying a girl to go on a date and the actual date does happen, it's not -just- a plausible deniability excuse (sex may or may not happen).
What it's actually closest to is host/hostess clubs where people go, spend money on booze, and a good-looking person (their host or hostess) spends time with them, pours them drinks, engages in interesting conversation, flirts with them and so on.
Girls who compensation date aren't typically "pros" or streetwalkers or anything like that, though, so while it's got prostitution vibes it's also really close to the old comedian standby "I pay to take her out to eat, to get into the club, for all her drinks - and I might not even get laid! At least with hookers you're getting what you pay for!". You're upfront paying for the date rather than trying to impress a girl enough to then pay for a date.
A better question to ask is "Why is there such a large erotic game scene in Japan?". Globally, they are the exception, not the default.
AFAIK, this is no longer true. https://www.techinasia.com/japan-used-panty-vending-machines-fact-fiction
AFAIK, this is no longer true. https://www.techinasia.com/japan-used-panty-vending-machines-fact-fiction
Disclaimer: This is probably more information than you wanted. Read on at your own peril....
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I've spent a lot of time studying Japanese history, up through the American Invasion, and i ascribe the modern sexual culture and sub-cultures there down to the clash of two completely different cultures at work simultaneously in the nation. These are my observations and opinions, and should not be construed as academic fact, though in my opinion, they are likely more accurate than the opinions of the academics.
The historic Aristocratic Shinto feudal order which existed through the early Edo period reserved sex for the purpose of procreation. This did not mean sex out of wedlock didn't happen, but it was culturally frowned upon, and there was only a specific set of circumstances where it could be viewed as honorable.
These set of circumstances were beyond the means of any feudal peasants, and as such was limited to the domain of the samurai and noble classes.
Japan at the time also had the distinction of sub-cultures, where duty was considered honorable, even if the act taken in the performance of that duty was not.
An example of this which is familiar to western minds is the popularized story of The Forty-seven Rōnin.
The actions they took were completely dishonorable, becoming drunks, taking work as base peasants, murdering an aristocrat... The fact they they did it to preserve the honor of their slain lord made all the dishonorable acts honorable, and they were allowed to die as samurai.
This concept of performing dishonorable acts out of duty was not limited to this example. Take their Geisha.
Prostitution, as a concept, was outright illegal; punishable by the swift stroke of a sword, when found... At least for the peasants.
The Geisha on the other hand, was an entertainer, not a prostitute... The distinction of being hired to have sex with someone on a nightly basis notwithstanding, they were exceptionally well trained in dance, music, theater, and social graces.
Often as not, their services would be limited to the role of social hostess and entertainer, but when deemed necessary, they had the leeway to discretely service their host in the privacy of their chamber. This was considered an act of duty, to relieve the stress of the host after having hosted a gathering... Bear in mind, any social gathering in the Japanese feudal period could result in the loss of heads for the even the mildest perceived slight or tinged word.
It was the responsibility of the Geisha, or other hostess, to make sure that the attending lords were handled, and the environment managed to keep their attentions away from their honor, and on having a good time.
This was their duty. Sex is an amazing stress reliever, and properly used and deployed, an extremely powerful weapon against men in all their aspects... Including honor, war, and attention spans.
With the demise of the samurai and the rise of the industrialist businessman, they simply stepped into the role of the Samurai in the Kōka period...
They simply absorbed the same privileges the samurai had, without any of the duty... For the duty, they substituted their work ethic.
Short of showing up to impregnate their wife, (this was a duty under Shinto, you see), they donated the entirety of their lives to the business. The business became the new duty.
As a side effect of only showing up at home once a month, if that often, they were afforded the privilege of geisha. Their meetings would often occur in a geisha house, or with geisha in attendance, to help relive the stress associated with living at work.
This arrangement persisted for perhaps another 100 years or so, until the industrial military complex which led Japan on the path of world domination was unceremoniously dumped and destroyed by the American invasion.
Japan always was, and always will be an extremely well-ordered, well-mannered and well-disciplined society. When the Emperor, (a living God, in the eyes of the Japanese), declared that they must "endure the unendurable", this was carte-blanche license to do whatever must be done to preserve the notion of Japan.
The Japanese accepted the new cultural changes out of duty to the Emperors command, and out of these conflicting cultures, many nuanced sexual idiosyncrasies which are unique to Japan followed.
The westerners viewed the geisha as prostitutes, and implemented laws against them, like they would any normal prostitute. But 2000 years of history and culture is not so easily undone...
Absorbing this culture, the geisha went underground for the sex, and public for the entertainment. They became 'Idols', young girls who publicly performed, and were privately for hire to the elite few who could afford them.
The historically stylized notion of sex for procreation, external to the dutiful sex within the confines of work ethic endured, for a period.... Then came the 60's, and the 'sexual revolution' in the west.
The notion of casual sex for the common man, for the purposes of pleasure, was the single most devastating blow the Japanese ever suffered.... Far greater than the fire bombings or atomics of the war.
It has not recovered, and indeed it remains to be seen whether the Japanese, as a people will survive it...
That they are now accepting sexual deviance as a duty, has facilitated the acceptance of many sub-cultures, essentially deigning them with the honorific of 'geisha'... "Because it is art, it is my duty", lending itself to both adult gaming communities and the 'furry' and cosplay phenomenons... You will see this 'duty' rearing its heads at odd points.
As an example, the Otaku culture parallels the Miko in Shinto... Devotion to their order to the exclusion of social and familial involvement. The loss of this duty to the family, in particular the notion that it is one's duty to bring forth children to increase the power of the empire, manifests in the 'Waifu"... To which they are fanatically.... and exclusively... devoted.
This quasi-religious fanatical devotion to sexual fetishes has not served the nation well.
Japan is now a dying nation. The elder and middle aged concepts of fanatical devotion to work with children limited to the wife, has led to men eschewing marriage until they are older, and their employment and associated self-worth more established. Staunch social orders still in place since the Kankō period reflect poorly on anyone taking a bride outside of their age range... Thus, no children from this very large segment of the population.
The younger segments, rebelling against this order of 'all-work, no play', are taking it to the extreme, in many cases, and completely eschewing work... But often not to the ideal of having sex out of wedlock, which still carries the social stigma.
Instead, we find the Otaku's devoting their lives... and wives... to video games, killing reproductivity out almost entirely amongst them.
The very young and attractive girls, are identified at a young age by the corporations, and are taken on the 'Idol' path... The contracts they sign enforce celibacy, and they are forbidden even private association with males for the duration of their contracts.
This phenomenon is exacerbated by modern technology and the Asian embrace of it...
An 'Idol' no longer need have any skill at all, simply to look attractive and gyrate in a suggestive manner... The music, lyrics and singing voices for the albums are provided for them, via proxy or digital manipulation.
Their birth rate has exceeded international declines among western nations, as these factors combine with the western popular myth of overpopulation endlessly repeated and venerated by the leftist media, to Japan having a current birthrate of only 1.46... With the minimum sustainable rate being 2.1... The rate to replace both parents with nominal growth.
The very right-minded feelings of the Japanese, preventing immigration to preserve their being "The Japanese", is a small factor in these matters. Though the leftist media would portray otherwise, the fact remains that Japan had no problems with maintaining the population and indeed, increasing their population markedly without importing non-Japanese to dilute their culture over the last 10,000 years.
The Japanese are over-the-hump, with peak population reached in 2010. Now on the decline.. This means they are now regressing as a society.
Since the death of Japan first became a front-page news article back in the early 2000's, birth rates have increased, albeit slightly.... one-fifth of one percent.
That rate is insufficient to produce a sustainable child-bearing population by the time the current population leaves child-bearing age. so unless their is a major change in the next 30 years, the Japanese are in serious trouble.
The historic Aristocratic Shinto feudal order which existed through the early Edo period reserved sex for the purpose of procreation. This did not mean sex out of wedlock didn't happen, but it was culturally frowned upon, and there was only a specific set of circumstances where it could be viewed as honorable.
These set of circumstances were beyond the means of any feudal peasants, and as such was limited to the domain of the samurai and noble classes.
Japan at the time also had the distinction of sub-cultures, where duty was considered honorable, even if the act taken in the performance of that duty was not.
An example of this which is familiar to western minds is the popularized story of The Forty-seven Rōnin.
The actions they took were completely dishonorable, becoming drunks, taking work as base peasants, murdering an aristocrat... The fact they they did it to preserve the honor of their slain lord made all the dishonorable acts honorable, and they were allowed to die as samurai.
This concept of performing dishonorable acts out of duty was not limited to this example. Take their Geisha.
Prostitution, as a concept, was outright illegal; punishable by the swift stroke of a sword, when found... At least for the peasants.
The Geisha on the other hand, was an entertainer, not a prostitute... The distinction of being hired to have sex with someone on a nightly basis notwithstanding, they were exceptionally well trained in dance, music, theater, and social graces.
Often as not, their services would be limited to the role of social hostess and entertainer, but when deemed necessary, they had the leeway to discretely service their host in the privacy of their chamber. This was considered an act of duty, to relieve the stress of the host after having hosted a gathering... Bear in mind, any social gathering in the Japanese feudal period could result in the loss of heads for the even the mildest perceived slight or tinged word.
It was the responsibility of the Geisha, or other hostess, to make sure that the attending lords were handled, and the environment managed to keep their attentions away from their honor, and on having a good time.
This was their duty. Sex is an amazing stress reliever, and properly used and deployed, an extremely powerful weapon against men in all their aspects... Including honor, war, and attention spans.
With the demise of the samurai and the rise of the industrialist businessman, they simply stepped into the role of the Samurai in the Kōka period...
They simply absorbed the same privileges the samurai had, without any of the duty... For the duty, they substituted their work ethic.
Short of showing up to impregnate their wife, (this was a duty under Shinto, you see), they donated the entirety of their lives to the business. The business became the new duty.
As a side effect of only showing up at home once a month, if that often, they were afforded the privilege of geisha. Their meetings would often occur in a geisha house, or with geisha in attendance, to help relive the stress associated with living at work.
This arrangement persisted for perhaps another 100 years or so, until the industrial military complex which led Japan on the path of world domination was unceremoniously dumped and destroyed by the American invasion.
Japan always was, and always will be an extremely well-ordered, well-mannered and well-disciplined society. When the Emperor, (a living God, in the eyes of the Japanese), declared that they must "endure the unendurable", this was carte-blanche license to do whatever must be done to preserve the notion of Japan.
The Japanese accepted the new cultural changes out of duty to the Emperors command, and out of these conflicting cultures, many nuanced sexual idiosyncrasies which are unique to Japan followed.
The westerners viewed the geisha as prostitutes, and implemented laws against them, like they would any normal prostitute. But 2000 years of history and culture is not so easily undone...
Absorbing this culture, the geisha went underground for the sex, and public for the entertainment. They became 'Idols', young girls who publicly performed, and were privately for hire to the elite few who could afford them.
The historically stylized notion of sex for procreation, external to the dutiful sex within the confines of work ethic endured, for a period.... Then came the 60's, and the 'sexual revolution' in the west.
The notion of casual sex for the common man, for the purposes of pleasure, was the single most devastating blow the Japanese ever suffered.... Far greater than the fire bombings or atomics of the war.
It has not recovered, and indeed it remains to be seen whether the Japanese, as a people will survive it...
That they are now accepting sexual deviance as a duty, has facilitated the acceptance of many sub-cultures, essentially deigning them with the honorific of 'geisha'... "Because it is art, it is my duty", lending itself to both adult gaming communities and the 'furry' and cosplay phenomenons... You will see this 'duty' rearing its heads at odd points.
As an example, the Otaku culture parallels the Miko in Shinto... Devotion to their order to the exclusion of social and familial involvement. The loss of this duty to the family, in particular the notion that it is one's duty to bring forth children to increase the power of the empire, manifests in the 'Waifu"... To which they are fanatically.... and exclusively... devoted.
This quasi-religious fanatical devotion to sexual fetishes has not served the nation well.
Japan is now a dying nation. The elder and middle aged concepts of fanatical devotion to work with children limited to the wife, has led to men eschewing marriage until they are older, and their employment and associated self-worth more established. Staunch social orders still in place since the Kankō period reflect poorly on anyone taking a bride outside of their age range... Thus, no children from this very large segment of the population.
The younger segments, rebelling against this order of 'all-work, no play', are taking it to the extreme, in many cases, and completely eschewing work... But often not to the ideal of having sex out of wedlock, which still carries the social stigma.
Instead, we find the Otaku's devoting their lives... and wives... to video games, killing reproductivity out almost entirely amongst them.
The very young and attractive girls, are identified at a young age by the corporations, and are taken on the 'Idol' path... The contracts they sign enforce celibacy, and they are forbidden even private association with males for the duration of their contracts.
This phenomenon is exacerbated by modern technology and the Asian embrace of it...
An 'Idol' no longer need have any skill at all, simply to look attractive and gyrate in a suggestive manner... The music, lyrics and singing voices for the albums are provided for them, via proxy or digital manipulation.
Their birth rate has exceeded international declines among western nations, as these factors combine with the western popular myth of overpopulation endlessly repeated and venerated by the leftist media, to Japan having a current birthrate of only 1.46... With the minimum sustainable rate being 2.1... The rate to replace both parents with nominal growth.
The very right-minded feelings of the Japanese, preventing immigration to preserve their being "The Japanese", is a small factor in these matters. Though the leftist media would portray otherwise, the fact remains that Japan had no problems with maintaining the population and indeed, increasing their population markedly without importing non-Japanese to dilute their culture over the last 10,000 years.
The Japanese are over-the-hump, with peak population reached in 2010. Now on the decline.. This means they are now regressing as a society.
Since the death of Japan first became a front-page news article back in the early 2000's, birth rates have increased, albeit slightly.... one-fifth of one percent.
That rate is insufficient to produce a sustainable child-bearing population by the time the current population leaves child-bearing age. so unless their is a major change in the next 30 years, the Japanese are in serious trouble.
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The language just reminded me of someone else. Wasn't my intention to assume any kind of plagiarism.
same reason western studios dont produce anime. its not smart to challenge japan on their home turf from a business perspective.
Maybe not nationally, but in the cities it is. And that's where you'll find the red doors. Most, if not all, cities do have local laws against prostitution. Which is why if you want a whore in Vegas you have to go out into the desert past city limits.
It was true, and sales just moved online... mostly to stop underaged girls from selling their panties. Japan's sexuality is still plenty weird without the actual vending machines. Or gachapon in you want to be technical.
Even with the later part about contractual celibacy, this puts a very dark spin on a lot of anime. I know age of consent is different there, but some of those girls are 10 years old. Impressive essay buffmuffin.
