Which Kinu Are You Going For/Are Locked To?

What version of Kinu do you want/are set for?

  • Kitsune Hime

  • Young Inari

  • Can’t Decide

  • I want to be surprised


Results are only viewable after voting.

Shura

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Apr 15, 2018
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Honestly, I love both and have natural responses that more or less equalize them, but ultimately settled on Kitsune Hime after considering new details on the sociability of each Kinu. While we have significantly less material on Kitsune Hime compared to Young Inari, from Observer’s description, I’m getting more Totally-Not-Japanese Princess Diana vibes from her in the sense that she’d be a “People’s Princess” with how empathetic and loving she is towards everyone.

I still love Young Inari, don’t get me wrong, but her being isolated and lonely as a result of her being stubborn and unable to consider other people’s perspectives is a little too heartbreaking for me.

But thanks to the tidbit about Kitsune Hime being very social and empathetic, I a lot feel better about doing her route because previously I thought she was going to be a shallow little snot (though I still suspect she will be at least fairly naive in a similar vein to Young Inari). It probably makes more sense anyway for my Noble Scion PC since Kinu would have two classy influences.

Of course, it still wasn’t an easy choice, but it was never meant to be. So I’m curious exactly how many people like each Kinu or are certain to land one already (like me) and why you all chose such.
 
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Shura

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I'll keep the debate down, just saying I got the Young Inari w/o trying.

I don’t see it as a debate, though personal values will probably get involved and where’s the fun if we all agreed on everything? >;P. I thought I’d land Young Inari easily until I cheated and spoiled myself on what would happen with various choices. Then I realized my choices are about evenly split with the full context and I legit had only one choice that was an actual tossup (the 16-kit gated one), though ultimately I gave up and picked the middle road option that’s worth 0 points; if I’d picked the Young Inari option, that would have tipped my score straight into Young Inari. I was going to walk out of this with either a -1 or +1 score, lol.

Guess we’ll find out eventually how things go. Presently though, there seems to be heavy favoritism of Young Inari in official material released, hahaha. Kitsune Hime needs a little more love so people can make their decisions on who they like better, yes? If I regret my choices......Well, guess I’ll have to torture myself at some point with another save. I was considering making a separate save file for Young Inari, but with how fast that event proc’d, I doubt I can hold out until 32 kits and I don’t think I can deal with the sad tension to what would have otherwise been a wholesome development. T_T

I don’t know if this happens for Young Inari route Kinu, but there’s a line after 16 kits where Kinu talks about being surprised by a hug from her mother who proceeds to tell her how glad she is Kinu was born. ;-; I hope it still is so we know Kiyoko is being sincere, but idk
 

TheShepard256

Well-Known Member
I voted "I want to be surprised", because I wasn't aiming for either specifically. I wanted the outcome to be 'organic' (i.e. not breaking character to get a certain outcome), so I was making decisions thusly: as my Champion, what she thought was best for her eldest daughter in the long term while still being supportive of Kinu and her individuality; and as Kinu, taking after her papa and doing what she thought she'd do in that situation. This seems to be pushing her towards Young Inari, which is kind of ironic as my Champion's personality is actually more empathic and sociable like Kitsune Hime Kinu.
 
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Shura

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I voted "I want to be surprised", because I wasn't aiming for either specifically. I wanted the outcome to be 'organic' (i.e. not breaking character to get a certain outcome), so I was making decisions thusly: as my Champion, what she thought was best for her eldest daughter in the long term while still being supportive of Kinu and her individuality; and as Kinu, taking after her papa and doing what she thought she'd do in that situation. This seems to be pushing her towards Young Inari, which is kind of ironic as my Champion's personality is actually more empathic and sociable like Kitsune Hime Kinu.

I basically did the same, believe it or not, and was tilted towards Young Inari for a little while. I played Kinu as being curious in addition to wanting to model herself after her parents, so that lead to some moments of experimenting.

Going to put my reasoning for each event (in the order I best remember doing them) under a spoiler tab just for funsies.

Contagious Happiness - I am a firm believer of self care and mental health, so of course I didn’t hesitate at all to pick “No” and tell Kinu not to constantly fake happiness because that’s draining on her and isn’t the appropriate behavior for everything.

Flowers for Kiyoko - Kinu ultimately settled on the Lilies because while she can see the beauty in the Dandelions as well, she knows her mother can’t and would feel insulted, so she decided to get the flowers she knows Mama would like. The lilies are pretty, and honestly, she can always mess with the dandelions later if she feels like it.

The Prodigy - While Kinu was a little mad that her mother lied about there being a mistake on the spell, she can also see that Kiyoko is sincerely regrets her actions and feels shame, so Kinu decided to forgive her. Because hey, Mama admitted it and apologized so as long as she doesn’t do it again, things are fine.

The Scarf - Kinu gets where her mother is coming from, but at the same time she is strongly moved by how much Tatsumi treasures the scarf because Big Sis made it for him. So she chose to compromise and teach him how to mend the scarf himself in addition to how the value of an object isn’t the object itself, but the memories one makes with them. That’s how she and Papa roll, after all.

Food Thief - As pissed she is about Aya getting her in trouble for shit she didn’t do, Kinu also knows how brutal their mom can be with discipline so she decides to let Aya go on the condition she doesn’t steal food again. (actually, I was disappointed the extra branch for turning in Aya where the PC can get involved didn’t make it in because this would have been a perfect point of teaching Kinu to empathize and get the full story before judging and all, but it’s understandable why it’d be awkward flow-wise)

Math - Since I have PC as a noble scion who has the full capacity to tutor Kinu herself, of course I picked the option to help Kinu personally. That was how I (in the sense of both PC and IRL me) were shaped. It really helps save time AND improves a kids confidence to be guided and patiently taught how to re-approach things after all.

Sweet Potato - As tempted as Kinu was to just eat all the potatoes, she’s convinced she can eventually cultivate the perfect sweet potato AND share it with her whole family! So that’s what she did. (and in my mind, the sweet potatoes we eat at matsutake grills were fruits of her labor - and her works in progress, haha).

I’m So Blood Pretty - Kinu is such a gorgeous little sweetheart that of course I had to praise her on what a good job she’s doing! And then proceed to offer some tips to help improve her charisma and appeal in personality and not just looks. And then proceed to have sweet sweet father-daughter bonding time brushing Kinu’s silky fur. <3

Floof Problems - Kinu is misbehaving and doing exactly what she’s NOT supposed to be doing so as her father, I have to at least chide her a bit. But she clearly has something bothering her so PC isn’t going to go further than that earful and hear her out.

Decoration - Kinu’s always been curious on what the appeal is behind her mother’s make up and why she smells so nice so she decided to experiment a bit with the eyeshadow. This leads to some nice mother-daughter bonding after Mama shakes her head and decides if Kinu’s going to mess around regardless, she may as well learn how to do it properly.

Romance Matters - As much as I want to indulge my little princess in her dreams of a fairy tale romance, I don’t want to set her up for disappointment and heartbreak so I had to gently let her down into the world of realism so she doesn’t end up with a Prince Charles on her hands (Nakano, I stg, if you pull a Charles, I will turn you into a rug).

The Birds - Kinu couldn’t bear to let those poor little sparrows go hungry, and it’s not like they need much anyway, so of course she’s willing to spare just a small handful for them. There’s still plenty enough for everyone at home.

Beauty Advice - Kinu is most definitely PISSED at Aya shittalking her behind her back, but as much as she’d like to beat the shit out of her, that’d cause unnecessary trouble for poor Asagiri and she’s not inclined to verbally destroy her either, so she opts to take the middle road and simply snatch her on the spot for a good disciplining without causing any trouble for Asagiri.

Heh, looking back, it seems like Kitsune Hime is indeed my most natural choice. Being put on the spot in game feels a lot different from simply reading a doc, haha.

Also, @Tristan Black - I didn’t really think the other topic was a debate until Observer hopped in (they’re probably tired of me badgering them for more info at this point, LOOOOL) and I slowly started to accept/resign to Kitsune Hime as much as I love Young Inari. XD
 

The Observer

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I still love Young Inari, don’t get me wrong, but her being isolated and lonely as a result of her being stubborn and unable to consider other people’s perspectives is a little too heartbreaking for me.

As an aside, also remember that she's supposed to be a child prodigy. I'm hesitant to give exact numbers, but she's probably in the +3-4 SD range when it comes to her intelligence, thanks to the champion. People in that range are often very lonely because they're simply unable to communicate effectively with the vast majority of people around them -- talking to someone outside of a 30 IQ band from you is nigh-impossible if you're not making a dedicated effort to do so or if your intelligence is low on the verbal spectrum. There's a saying in the circles I run in that the king's job is to translate the wizard's mad ramblings into policy that his subjects can understand. In one of her events, Kinu notes/gets frustrated that Tatsumi is simply unable to make the intuitive leaps of reasoning that she's used to doing in her own head, and she has to walk him through her logic step by step. Even then, he doesn't quite fully understand it.

"How can they not see what's so patently obvious?"

Highly intelligent people can learn to communicate effectively with those who haven't been as blessed as them, but it takes effort and dedication -- and the desire to reach out to the people you're trying to understand. It's not something that comes naturally, and it can often be tiring. Kinu needs to be kind and empathic enough to understand others and care about them enough to want to make the effort, and if that dimension of hers is never expressed then the frustration of talking to people who have the same gap to her as the mentally deficient would have to you and me pretty much stymies any attempt at effective communication. Mai may be the only person outside her family and in her age group that she can actually hold an intelligent conversation with.
 

Shura

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As an aside, also remember that she's supposed to be a child prodigy. I'm hesitant to give exact numbers, but she's probably in the +3-4 SD range when it comes to her intelligence, thanks to the champion. People in that range are often very lonely because they're simply unable to communicate effectively with the vast majority of people around them -- talking to someone outside of a 30 IQ band from you is nigh-impossible if you're not making a dedicated effort to do so or if your intelligence is low on the verbal spectrum. There's a saying in the circles I run in that the king's job is to translate the wizard's mad ramblings into policy that his subjects can understand. In one of her events, Kinu notes/gets frustrated that Tatsumi is simply unable to make the intuitive leaps of reasoning that she's used to doing in her own head, and she has to walk him through her logic step by step. Even then, he doesn't quite fully understand it.

"How can they not see what's so patently obvious?"

Highly intelligent people can learn to communicate effectively with those who haven't been as blessed as them, but it takes effort and dedication -- and the desire to reach out to the people you're trying to understand. It's not something that comes naturally, and it can often be tiring. Kinu needs to be kind and empathic enough to understand others and care about them enough to want to make the effort, and if that dimension of hers is never expressed then the frustration of talking to people who have the same gap to her as the mentally deficient would have to you and me pretty much stymies any attempt at effective communication. Mai may be the only person outside her family and in her age group that she can actually hold an intelligent conversation with.

Oh yeah, I definitely feel where you’re coming from, Observer. Not to toot my own horn, but I’m pretty high on the IQ scale myself (especially in verbal comprehension where I’m 99th percentile) so I can confirm a lot of things you’ve stated here. I’m better about keeping my ego down these days for the most part (though, uh, I can’t say I’m perfect orz), but it’s hard making that little exasperated voice in your head shut up.

Although, I will say while I’ve always been empathetic and sociable, how well I communicated and reading social CUES were always what got me. I was blissfully unaware as a kid though and it wasn’t until I was older that I learned to pick up on when someone’s lost interest in what I’m saying AND refining my language skills a bit more, hahaha.

But that probably is more a result of me being both sociable from a young age and my strength being language, haha. And I kinda like speaking in colloquialisms anyway (I love snarky brands of humor and people find it entertaining when I do that myself, so what can I say?) So I only occasionally forget something is jargon.

I think another factor is how broad a highly intelligent person’s interests are. Someone who likes a lot of things including stuff more “ordinary” people like (like Kitsune Hime) would find friends more easily than someone who is hyperfocused on a very specific field (like Young Inari, pun may or may not be intended). Having a diversity of interests (and thus accessibility to people different from you) would help very much in developing more empathy. Because it is generally harder empathize with someone if you don’t have any similar kinds of experience (whether your own or seeing someone else go through it) in addition to of course a willingness to understand.

Conversely, however, I am of the opinion that empathetic people are also the ones who are more dangerous if they want to hurt someone because they know exactly how to make it cut as deep as possible right on the sore spots. Which is why I think the Hime option for “Beauty Advice” is fitting; it’s so pinpointedly brutal and efficient because it’s a result of Kinu knowing exactly how to make it hurt and knowing how she herself would feel if she were Aya and trying to talk shit behind people’s backs to get validation for herself.

So yeah, I think you hit the hammer on the head when it comes to why Inari has much fewer friends than Hime. Inari is more independent, yes, but she also independent to the point of being incapable of swallowing her pride to reach out when she needs to. Hime, while still confident and assertive, is also aware of her own shortcomings and willing to reach out to someone with more expertise than her on a subject, regardless of pure intellectual capabilities.

As such, between the two Kinus, we have the picture of two different kinds of high INT folks. One who prefers the company of other experts and intellectuals exclusively, the other who is more than happy to share her passions with everyone by making it more accessible.
 

Angelus

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Oct 17, 2019
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I honestly can't decide. I play while constantly referencing the wiki on things, and though I heavily like the outcome of Young Inari... I don't want her to have a bad relationship with Kiyoko :(
I will probably still do Young Inari, just going with the flow of how the whole story feels. But still... I can't help but wish there was a middle ground, yeh?

And as for what I mean with "how the story feels":
Kiyoko is from a bygone era, and is still pretty set in her ways. It is heavily noticeable how old Japanese feeling the whole thing is.
So I would prefer to have a smart yet strong and independent daughter who will make logical and good decisions for the family down the road than what can come off as a possible airheaded bimbo (yes, I know Kitsune Hime is still intelligent, but she would also have the "lie for appearances" mentality)
Again, I am mostly referencing the wiki on this...
As is I am currently at a stand still because of the illness scene caused by her not instantly learning the weapons... I just want to know what happens if I help or don't, damnit! Should I use magick to make my cute lil ball of floof better, or an item, or leave it to her mother who admits to not knowing much about medicine?! D:

That's where I'm at with her ;) and I hope my more likely Young Inari outcome is the right path for my cute daughter ~ (gotta love that immersive mentality eh?)
 
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Shura

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I honestly can't decide. I play while constantly referencing the wiki on things, and though I heavily like the outcome of Young Inari... I don't want her to have a bad relationship with Kiyoko :(
I will probably still do Young Inari, just going with the flow of how the whole story feels. But still... I can't help but wish there was a middle ground, yeh?

And as for what I mean with "how the story feels":
Kiyoko is from a bygone era, and is still pretty set in her ways. It is heavily noticeable how old Japanese feeling the whole thing is.
So I would prefer to have a smart yet strong and independent daughter who will make logical and good decisions for the family down the road than what can come off as a possible airheaded bimbo (yes, I know Kitsune Hime is still intelligent, but she would also have the "lie for appearances" mentality)
Again, I am mostly referencing the wiki on this...
As is I am currently at a stand still because of the illness scene caused by her not instantly learning the weapons... I just want to know what happens if I help or don't, damnit! Should I use magick to make my cute lil ball of floof better, or an item, or leave it to her mother who admits to not knowing much about medicine?! D:

That's where I'm at with her ;) and I hope my more likely Young Inari outcome is the right path for my cute daughter ~ (gotta love that immersive mentality eh?)

Indeed, haha. I personally like how the real life conflict of young Asian Americans (and I’m assuming any other Asian children of immigrants to Western nations, but Murica is my only frame of reference as an Asian American, lol) between finding a healthy balance between Eastern and Western values is depicted through Kiyoko and Kinu. Some find that balance by forging their own paths (like Young Inari) while others figure out how to preserve traditions in their own unique way (like how Kitsune Hime seems to be to me as of now).

While I am a very strong believer in being true to oneself, I also believe in the value of many old traditions and that they have a good reason. But I also have a more nuanced view on what consists of filial piety, so that’s set me at odds in the past with my parents (I think we’ve managed to resolve those discrepancies for the most part now though, thankfully). So personally, in Kinu’s position, I would be trying to connect with my heritage while also trying to form my own beliefs from them. Which is, still me irl.

I originally was very averse to the path of Kitsune Hime (even after DCL’s gorgeous portrait for her was released) but at the time she did come off like a shallow mini Kiyoko clone. I didn’t like the fact I had a roughly 50/50 chance of landing her but Young Inari’s troubled relationship with Kiyoko hits a very uncomfortable note for me so I ended up bugging Observer here and there as you may or may not have seen. My conscience was finally eased when they dropped the additional info of the sociability of each and I felt relaxed enough to make my final choice, which would ultimately lock me to the Kitsune Hime route.

I’m keeping my fingers crossed that Kitsune Hime will turn out to be like a Disney Princess and not just a sad copy of Kiyoko (from the Hime options I picked, she actually is more self aware when it comes to discipline than Inari going off comparisons in the doc). Heck, I would be happiest if she’s like Mulan; a filial child who is still a headstrong independent girl. Both Kinus will always be my little princess though. <3
 
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Angelus

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Been playing on mobile and every now n then I just reload a save to at least experience what could happen. Bit cheaty? Sure. But at least then I know I am making a choice I can actually feel good about and not have the "but what if" afterward.
 

Shura

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Making a separate post for discussing my analysis on Kinu as a child.

I notice most people seem fixated on the love of agriculture aspect of her and seem to come to the conclusion that that’s Kinu’s most natural state of being, I actually had thought that myself before I finally started getting events and additional dialogue (she gets a lot more insightful generic lines the more siblings she has). After careful reading and talk spamming though, I realized that while Kinu’s starting personality is tilted more towards Young Inari at a score of +1, she actually shows a very good mix of both that and Kitsune Hime. There are many lines about beauty and guile for starters, and regardless of which personality dominates, Kinu is still a hyperactive ball of fluff who loves games of thought as much as she loves games of romp.

In other words, she starts with perfectly equal potential to go one way or another; she just initially is more adversarial as an only child without much responsibility. But as she gets more siblings, she gradually matures and comes to understand her mother better.

Also worthy of note is the fact that while both PC perspective and Kinu perspective events both have scenes where a choice could weigh very heavily, Kinu side tends to have more of them. Which means that while PC can have a strong influence on how Kinu turns out, ultimately it is how Kinu chooses to handle things that weighs more on her adult personality.

This fits well with the theme of communication being a two-way street. It’s easy to pin all the blame on Kiyoko being too rigid of a traditionalist for her bad relationship with Young Inari. HOWEVER, Young Inari also contributed to this deterioration by refusing to compromise on her end as well. This is best shown in events like “The Prodigy” and “Flowers for Kiyoko”. In the former, she chose to cave to anger based on a strict view of “right and wrong” and rejects Kiyoko’s remorse, and in the latter, she basically deliberately chose “Screw Mom! Dandelions >>>>>> Lilies so I’m getting dandelions for her and if she can’t appreciate them, that’s her fault”.

While it’s perfectly as valid for her to think the way she does with those choices as it is for the Kitsune Hime counterparts, not surprisingly, it results in only further tension and breakdown in communication. Kinu’s stubbornness didn’t come from nowhere after all.

Even though Kitsune Hime strongly resembles Kiyoko in looks and mannerisms, Young Inari is ironically the one who is inflexible just like Kiyoko. Just in the completely opposite direction. Which is why Observer himself said that Young Inari is the one more likely to be stuck in her mother’s position with her own child one day. Because she’s so stubbornly convinced her own values are the “right” ones, she cannot and probably doesn’t even want to understand the views of other people. As a result, she has practically no friends besides the crops and beasts of the earth.

While it is tragic that Young Inari can’t get along with her mother, it is a tragedy partly of her own making (as many tragedies are). One way or another, Kinu will be like her mother in some way and Young Inari sadly got the one worst trait, making it impossible for them to reconcile. The burden is on the both of them.

Conversely, with Kitsune Hime, Kinu chose at key moments of her life to try to understand her mother and her siblings. Rather than obsess over what is “right” or “wrong”, she chooses to look at the “why”. The Hime choice of “The Prodigy” and “The Food Thief” both highlight that very well.

In “The Prodigy”, while Kinu isn’t happy, she also saw a positive to things and remembers how hard her mother works to take care of her and everyone else. She understands that it’s normal to feel jealous and that everyone has their worst moments. One bad day doesn’t make someone a horrible person and that’s why she can’t bring herself to hate her mother. If anything, Mother needs her more than ever to get through such a hard time and she wants to make sure she knows there are no hard feelings.

In “The Food Thief”, Kinu knows how terrifying her mother is when angered and while she is still not pleased about being the scapegoat, she decides to let Aya off with a warning on the condition that she doesn’t steal food again and instead asks when she wants or needs something.

Funny enough, this event apparently was originally supposed to have PC witnessing it and if the Young Inari route is chosen, PC has the option of teaching compassion to Kinu by getting Aya’s side of the story (which would have been that she never could reach the apples at dinnertime because she’s the smallest and the basket was always empty by the time it reached her, so she decided to try eating them where she doesn’t have to compete). This reveals that Kinu was partly at fault for this incident because it’s her job to make sure everyone gets a fair share of the food.

Of course, Aya still isn’t off the hook since she still stole the apples, but Kinu will also be getting a stern word. I don’t know if this would have negated the Inari score, but I’m still a little sad this didn’t make it in since it actually shows that Kiyoko is very fair when she has the full story communicated to her (and I always love being involved with my daughter’s life) but I understand it had to be because PC doesn’t exactly have a reason to be there so it’d be awkward.

I’m going to also mention “Flowers for Kiyoko” again because what struck me about the Hime option is that while Kinu still loves the dandelions (what with casting one last regretful glance at them), she also found herself starting to appreciate the lilies more and understand why it’d be favored. I personally interpret that as not so much suddenly thinking dandelions are ugly weeds so much as learning to see why something is traditionally favored and appreciating it as well. And she can always mess with the dandelions later on her romps anyways.

ANYWAYS! I think I’ll conclude this wall of text by reiterating that ultimately Kinu’s choices are what matter most in what kind of person she’ll be. Will she stand strong for her opinions at all costs or is she willing to swallow her pride in order to understand people better?

Honestly, the nice thing about having all the choices having equally desirable and undesirable outcomes is that it feels more organic on how Kinu turns out, and things actually fit better when you go about it this way.


——————————————————————————————————————————————————————————-


@Angelus - Oh yes, late response since I missed it the first time while skimming your comment, but for the scene Kinu is ill, it doesn’t matter whether you help or not. It’s purely a roleplaying choice that depends on what you have (or don’t have) on you. ;) I incidentally had Winterstem so I used that. It provided a nice soothing menthol vapor in what is basically a ancient humidifier.

I also play on mobile and basically did the same as you in peeking at different routes, but instead of savescumming (it just feels weird for these random events), I stole looks into Observer’s doc on Kinu to save the trouble, lol. I actually already knew most of my answers just from the wiki list with no context, but there were a few I changed my mind on when they turned out to not be what I expected (“Beauty Advice” was the big one; it was not what I thought at all, so I changed from leaning Inari choice to Neutral choice).

I’ve just finally accepted that Kitsune Hime is my most natural route and am content with it for now, hehe.

Honestly, just roll with the option you like best and let things sort out themselves out. I think we’ll all love our own respective Kinus regardless of outcome.
 
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The Observer

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The central crux of the conflict between Kiyoko and Young Inari Kinu is that the former knows that the latter is wasting her potential and talents by doing what she does. "I didn't school you in trigonometry and calculus so that you could go and plough fields. You can call it agricultural science all you want, but you're wasting what you've been blessed with here."

And...she's not completely wrong. The valorisation of individual desires above all is a modern construct enabled in a large part by the easy abundance of material wealth we have today. Where people have to stick together and work in concert to simply survive, the question of whether you are endangering everyone else by refusal to cooperate is a very real one. There several very good reasons why kitsune society is absolutely autistic about etiquette and why putting your personal desires first are frowned upon.

As someone who is uniquely gifted and bears divine blood, Kinu throwing away all that to play peasant is tantamount to abdicating one's duties to society and the people around her. So the question is: for those to whom are given much, how much of that are you expected to give back to the people around you? What responsibilities do you bear in exchange for your gifts? Are you allowed to throw them away and refuse to rule in what is arguably an immensely selfish and self-centered action?
 

Tristan Black

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An excellent question. And yet, what new things can be learned about these mundane actions by someone who was trained in advanced mathematics and scientific method? What do the kitsune know about advanced agriculture and biology?

I may be biased, as an educated person learning a trade, but it's remarkable what a sharp mind and attentive eye can bring to "mere" physical pursuits. Sure, there's plenty to be said for having a functioning society coming out of a relatively low population base, but there's also drawbacks. Especially when the attitudes start leading to social stratification and the prejudices that stem from it.

I don't care how much you know. Working with your hands should never be frowned upon. And conversely, someone whose responsibilities require hard work and attention should never be discouraged from seeking an education.

Basically, I'm all for a society where social mobility is not only possible, but encouraged. I know the challenges, but I tend to think the advantages outweigh them.
 

shadefalcon

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Oct 13, 2015
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When I first read the wiki about the different results I immediately came to the conclusion that inari Kinu was the best choice.
Gradually I came to realize that both sides have their own merits. Inari Kinu forges her own path in life and is content with the simpler things in life.
Kinu hime follows her mothers path, but enjoys it just as much and generally gets along with others more.

I am curious as to where my natural parenting will take her. But I too ended up leaning more towards kitsune hime, for the same reason as you Shura.
I do prefer the path where Kinu, you and Kiyoko all are one happy family. I just want to pamper my two important floofs without any family drama.

I do think part of my choices do align me towards hime. Like when I tell her she can find true love and what not. It might never come to be, which is also an option of telling her, but I want to give her a happy childhood filled with dreams and hopes. At the same time though, I want to teach her important stuff, which is where I sometimes align with Inari. But nothing wrong with letting her have princess dreams :oops:

I also think Kinu might be happier in life if she doesn't carry resentment towards her mother. As being angry and hateful is an emotional baggage I think everyone should be without in life.

I'd love Kinu regardless, but it would make me happy for Kinu to feel loved by mother and father alike. And for Kiyoko to feel her daughters affection for her.

I just compared my favoured stats to that of the different Kinus. I play a black mage with high presensce, cunning and willpower. Maybe not the best build tbh. But it is what it is.
Hime shares 2 of my stats: Cunning and Presence. She has that appeal, that charisma and a clever mind. I imagine she'll make a good leader, so she'll be really suited as a den mother.
While Inari favors Strength, Toughness and Willpower. 2 Things my PC has little off, and one they favor highly. She's got a bit more down to earth knowledge, and a strong body and a willpower that can drive her through the worst of times. Here too she makes a good den mother. Just in a different way.
Both of them are good in their own magic. With Hime possibly being a bit more black mage like.
So it's nice to see that she inherits something from me regardless :D
As a side note I think Inari hime must be somewhat cunning too, with her calculated meek exterior.

I'd also like to point out I find it hilarious that people compare Inari Kinus boyfriend, Hitoshi, to Takeo from Ore Monogatari XD
I dunno how the bishounen dude is right now, but I hope it's her prince charming.
 

Shura

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I can’t believe I forgot to specifically mention that Kiyoko feels Kinu pursuing agriculture as a career is a waste of her talents, so I’m glad Word of God themself came in and said it themself.

@Tristan Black - funny enough, as an educated person working towards a major profession, I agree with you on the fact people tend to undervalue more physical trades like agriculture. Yes, there’s a big doctor shortage and a shortage of scientific innovators in general (just look at how far Murica has fallen behind in regards to technology), and yes, we need to be encouraging our children to pursue such careers as much as possible. But if a child feels more interested in a more “blue collar” trade and wants to focus their gifts there, then we should support them as well. The door should be kept open in every field because ultimately we get the best innovators from people who truly find their life’s calling within that path.

Kitsune Hime is the person who would be reshaping the world, building bridges, and innovating ways to make society flow better to bring joy to everyone. But Young Inari too will make the world a better place as well by developing better planting techniques and better strains of crops in both flavor and productivity. She could probably end world hunger by spreading both the goods and the methods. Of course, that depends on whether or not she learns how to reach out and the will to go out and make a difference (I know the short story shows her as someone who just wants a quiet life without heroics, but a lot of Young Inari choice/route lines indicate a desire to make the world better through improved agricultural techniques.

So yeah, I believe both career paths are equally valid and important and there needs to be less stratification based on prestige and more focus on the benefits of all paths to young minds.
 

Tristan Black

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Not to mention that it's a lot easier to find paying work that actually respects you in the labor pool than it is in the white-collar world. Cubicles, dress shirts and an uncaring management structure, or open spaces, meritorial respect, and hard work you can see the impact of?
 

Shura

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Not to mention that it's a lot easier to find paying work that actually respects you in the labor pool than it is in the white-collar world. Cubicles, dress shirts and an uncaring management structure, or open spaces, meritorial respect, and hard work you can see the impact of?

Well, to be fair......you can see the effects of your care on your patients if you’re a doctor, lol. Every time you talk to someone and observe how they’re doing, you can gauge how they are by how they are feeling and how much they’re recovering if they were ill.

Same if you do administrative work. If you’re doing it right, you’ll have lots of happy people and high productivity. Basically, shit gets done in a timely manner.

Even with lawyers, business folks, scientists, programmers, etc etc etc, there’s always something to see.

There’s always SOMETHING tangible being accomplished. It may be somewhat more abstract at times, and you may not even see the results right away. But there are plenty of fields you’ll be working towards something.

The trouble with white collar work is more the fact it’s a pain in the ass to get to those good positions instead of being stuck as an office drone.

Same actually goes with labor work, really. You have work your way to the top one way or another if you want to be the one in control.

I just believe that if you love the work you do you won’t work a day in your life. ;)
 

Tristan Black

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Fair enough. I like to work with metal, so I'm learning to weld.

Add some skills with milliing and metallurgy, and I'd be on the cutting-edge of modern smithing.

Plus I'd have some mechanical engineering skills, for more... ambitious... projects...
 
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shadefalcon

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That vid was wholesome.

Interesting talk about what Kinu brings to the world in her different forms. I agree that she probably would make it a better place in her own way.

She could probably end world hunger by spreading both the goods and the methods.
She'll be a den mother. She will surely have enough tiddy milk to end world hunger ;)

As an addition to the question of which Kinu are you going for:
What kind of weaponry are you all leaning forwards for Kinu?

Does it differ between the two? Are you looking at the stats, the style or just what you think would fit her best?

Personallly I favour the Naginata for Kinu hime at least. It boosts her toughness and strength, gives her more defense capabilities mid and short range, should an opponent get past her magic attacks, and it looks stylish as hell. She becomes more trained in the arts of close combat which can be combined to master devastating short range magic.
I think it'd make her look both elegant and fierce at the same time. And it would toughen her up a bit so that she's not as much of a glass cannon as her father >_>

I do think a highly skilled magic user could unleash some havoc as an archer too though. She'll have time to focus on her spells while she unleashes arrows and uses the increased agility to move around, evade and generally procure better ground to fight from. I also like the idea of combining magic and archery to unleash powerful flurries of attacks like a fate servant of the archer class. For this style I think she'd look more noble, composed and elagant.
I might end up leaning towards this build one day. It would remind me of Yona in Yona of the dawn, an exiled princess who had to learn to use the bow and fend for herself to become less of a burden of her guardians. She had some really epic archery moment at the end of the anime.

For now though, I still think Im leaning towards Naginata.

This is me thinking in terms of the setting and not the actual game mechanics of course. Purely speculating and such.

For Inari hime for some reason I think Naginata is the choice I keep thinking is best though. Combine her spear skills and improved physique and toughness, which are already pretty good, with her bark skin capabilities, and she ends up with a good offense and defense. Her nature magic capabilities would also allow for some interesting utility as she could trip an opponent with a root at a crucial step and the like.
She might be better off with the bow, but I dunno, I just think the naginata suits her.

Both are good weapon choices, but these are my choices.
 
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The Observer

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What do the kitsune know about advanced agriculture and biology?

An incredible amount. Instead of the patronage and industry of Belhar, they have organic technology that's inspired by some of their real-world practices.

A Very Stable Genius may or may not have hacked off his own arm at the limb, after all. There's probably a reason why he's out in the colonies.

Anyways, organic technology. For example, 2000 yrs ago builders in Japan learned how to put up stone walls that become stronger when infiltrated by water and tree roots, the total opposite of how modern walls and fortifications are built. The result is stone walls that have never failed, through thousands of years and as many earthquakes, through rains and typhoons and trees being born and dying right on top of them.

EFWv2UQVAAA2p60


EFWwT96U8AAglI2

Europeans have done similar things -- Roman concrete that absorbed minerals from sea and groundwater, growing stronger as the years passed. Sod roofs are also great -- a sod roof can delay or 25-75% of runoff, and negate between 5-20mm of precipitation. With enough of these in a city it could be the difference between a heavy but endurable rain and flash flooding causing millions in damages. They are also more or less tornado proof, they help balance and stabilize a building in case of earthquakes, the material is free or very nearly free, carbon neutral, easy to build, provides good insulation and are very pretty.

EAsR5rrUYAMTByA
 

Tristan Black

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I'll admit, my dream home would likely be a cross between a quansit hut and a bunker, with a few inches of dirt and grass on top of it. I'd have to build up a little to account for flash flooding, but it'd resist every type of natural disaster you're likely to see in the lower Midwest.

Might not stand up so well in areas with higher water tables or a tendency to earthquakes, but wind and fire can't touch the concept if it's properly engineered and built.

I'll admit, my mind's trapped in Western philosophy, and mostly involves using heavier materials like stone and steel to resist the elements in an attempt to circumvent the organic's tendency to decay if it isn't living... as is generally the case when we build with bog-standard materials in this day and age. So I think in terms of brick, mortar, and steel, not wood and thatch.
 

Angelus

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So I generally understand the concept of "you are wasting your talent in the dirt" and what not, but I can also digress and bring up that whole world hunger aspect of Young Inari Kinu.
Because, in any world in general, there will almost always eventually be a shortage of whatever resource. And if she becomes exceptionally gifted in growing a healthy, sustainable food source en masse... that's one less resource needing being kept up with growing numbers of "supply amd demand".

Alternatively, I can still understand that she could be put to use in damn near any field ever due to the prodigious nature she has. She could be a damn fine den mother (which is the most likely case) or go off like Kiyoko and be a deadly force in a military or mercenary group. Yadda yadda, etc etc. So, though I can see any number of paths for both options, my brain still views the sustainable food source option as a best scenario... but that's possibly due to how my life is ^^;

As for with weapon choices... I like glaives and similar polearms, so naginata was my choice. Have always been interested in learning archery, but an up close and personal option has usually been my go to... even have a D&D character that uses a glaive with deadly efficiency lol. And given she excels at magick, the naginata rounds her out perfectly imo. Magick to blast things from a distance, a mix of both for mid range, and the naginata for up in your face action. Even has the lovely Cleave ability that I wish I had for my D&D character ;) because it only makes sense for the weapon type! Whereas the bow has Triple Threat (iirc) which is better for taking out single targets (also iirc).

All in all though, I do still plan to do Young Inari because it's more on my logical brain to do so. Yet I still feel kinda bad for the family issues it will cause with how she turns out because of it.
 

Shura

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Whew! Overwhelming numbers of people either on or going for Young Inari. XD About what I expected given that route fits the whole altruistic independent individual narrative largely favored in the West, but I was hoping Kitsune Hime wouldn’t lag too far behind despite the almost lack of supplemental info so far.

And let’s be honest; I’m pretty sure most of us would rather take an objectively practical career with more tangible results over going into politics. I know I would, lol.

Even still, I don’t think it should be underestimated how crucial it is to have a strong leader/organizer/administrator to not only designate and direct roles, but also someone with the charisma and drive to inspire changes in attitudes and bridge gaps in communication and understanding. Kitsune Hime would possibly be the one who creates understanding and acceptance between Kitsune and Northerners, facilitating the exchange of knowledge and goods alike. And while she may not directly end world hunger herself, she can easily raise awareness of and direct the best resources to develop the means.

For this reason, I’ve come to view Kitsune Hime as more a “jack-of-all-trades” sort. I don’t know if there are any personality dependent dialogues for her talk lines on Siblings), but I know at least on my Hime-locked Kinu, she remarks on being not only excellent at pinpointing everyone’s talents and directing them to jobs suited to them but also good at everything herself. Either way, it would seem to me that Hime chooses to fully embrace being the one to know at least a bit of everything (jack of all trades) while Inari chose to be a “master of one” for Agriculture specifically.

Both are equally valid and beneficial to the world. It’s just like how being a good President/Prime Minister/Diplomat vs. being a highly influential doctor/lawyer/engineer/scientist/horticulturist (okay, any of those aside from horticulturist would be more Hime equivalent in terms of prestige, but I need to put things in perspective a bit based on specialization, which is more Inari) are equally valid and beneficial. Which is to say, both Kinus would be Nobel Peace Prize winners in this world.

I know I’m probably being a tad obnoxious with raising a Hime counterpoint to every Inari point, but I feel like it’s warranted because Young Inari’s good qualities are immediately obvious to everyone while Kitsune Hime is barely touched on both officially and unofficially. I would know because that was a huge reason I was originally biased towards Young Inari and hoping to avoid Kitsune Hime.


Also, on weapon choice, I went with Naginata because I’m already an archer and feel the toughness bonus plus high damage would benefit the team more. I also feel that having Kinu connect with tradition would help her feel more secure in her status as future den mother. The studying aspect definitely resonated a lot with me.
 

The Observer

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Keros isn't done, though. As you watch, the thin thread of golden light widens and spins faster, and another figure emerges, one that you feel that you ought to know but can't quite place your finger on: she's wearing [kinu.kinuAdultPersonality 0
|a full-length kimono that goes all the way down to her ankles and with equally long sleeves, white and deep blue alike with a sash of purple about her midriff, and a soft leaf-print pattern in the same colour. Part of her hair's been done in a lovely if homely braid, while the rest hangs free all the way down her hips which push outward against the skirts of her clothing, only divested in two by her five luxuriant tails. There's even a cute, if unkempt fringe that falls forward from under the headscarf she's wearing, and the collar of her kimono is laced with rich, luxuriant fur.
|a dress much in Kiyoko's style, but much, much shorter, provocatively so yet not enough to be outright lewd; improper in certain settings, perhaps, but not outright scandalous. What lack of material there is in her skirts and top is made up for in the long folds of her silken sleeves, exquisitely dyed and bearing a leaf-print pattern; the sash about her waist is threaded with gold and fine patterning. Her hair, long and exquisite, falls all the way past her butt, where her five lovely tails part it in two, and her figure strains against her clothing even though she moves barefoot with ease.​
]. But the silvery-white hair, blue eyes with their white pupils… not to mention her colours of blue, white and purple… but the bell anklet about her foot, not to mention its twin in the form of a choker about her neck, is a dead giveaway.

Oh. <i>Oh.</i>

<i>"[kinu.kinuAdultPersonality 0
|Hey, Dad,"</i> Kinu says, looking a little sheepish as she scrambles off her knees and to her feet, pushing the hair out of her eyes. <i>"It's been a while…
|It has been some time since we last met, Father."</i> Perfectly poised, Kinu clasps her hands in front of her and gives you a small bow. <i>"Thank you for doing this for Mother. It means so much to her.​
]"</i>
 

Shura

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BABY GIRL BABY!!!!!!

I kinda hope Kitsune Hime Kinu doesn’t call us “Father” all the time though; I still wanna hear “Papa” in private are least. X’D

Also glad to know Hime still has the anklet even if DCL didn’t draw her with one, so now I know for sure to include it in any drawings I do where her ankles are visible (this first one I’m doing doesn’t, rip).
 
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