Vanae Milk application

[Nik_van_Rijn]

Particularly its use being calculated as a breast Tease attack with some modifiers, instead of being a drug Special. I've done some testing, and I'm pretty sure it uses opponents Tease resistance, preference modifiers and triggers special conditions (like Infected Myr getting stunned).

My main questions are: does it work as intended? What's the reasoning behind setting it up like this?

 

[Nik_van_Rijn]

Well, nobody seems to care about this, so I'll bump this thread up once and let it die if the still won't be any interest.

 

[Noob Salad]

Are there other drug specials?

 

[JimThermic]

Milk squirt was invented before the combat revamp. It could be it was overlooked, or alternatively not wanting to replace a person's base tease-type attack with a drug-based attack.

If you think it's a problem, I'd report it under bugs.

 

[Nik_van_Rijn]

Are there other drug specials?

Gas Grenade is the only one I know of, and it's a class ability.

There is Red Myr Venom that adds Drug type Lust damage to your melee attacks and a couple Lust Special granted by items, however I'm not sure what type of damage they use.

Milk squirt was invented before the combat revamp. It could be it was overlooked, or alternatively not wanting to replace a person's base tease-type attack with a drug-based attack.

If you think it's a problem, I'd report it under bugs.

If it were up to me, I'd have just moved it into Special Attacks category. It really depends on how do you think it works, either as a supplement to bouncing dem tits or by itself as a drug. I wasn't able to check what type of damage Vanae Huntresses do with their version of attack since currently there's no way for PC to have different resistance values for various types of lust damage outside of editing. And my Minerva cripples the saves.

Thanks for answering by the way.

 

[JimThermic]

If it were up to me, I'd have just moved it into Special Attacks category. It really depends on how do you think it works, either as a supplement to bouncing dem tits or by itself as a drug. I wasn't able to check what type of damage Vanae Maidens and Huntresses do with their version of attack since currently there's no way for PC to have different resistance values for various types of lust damage outside of editing. And my Minerva cripples the saves.

Thanks for answering by the way.

It was made to be a special attack originally, along with several other vanae attributes. Originally I was hoping to incorporate their cumvore and hyper-fertile nature into the player, like in CoC. However, it was decided that TiTs wouldn't follow the same route of having active abilities gained from TFs, because that encouraged a play-style where people would transform into certain species to gain these abilities, while those who didn't missed out and felt burnt.

I was actually holding off commenting on your thread because I was interested to see if the dev team said anything on the matter. Also, the mechanics and game balance aren't my area, and I don't want to come off sounding like I'm some kind of authority when I'm not.

 

[Nik_van_Rijn]

It was made to be a special attack originally, along with several other vanae attributes. Originally I was hoping to incorporate their cumvore and hyper-fertile nature into the player, like in CoC. However, it was decided that TiTs wouldn't follow the same route of having active abilities gained from TFs, because that encouraged a play-style where people would transform into certain species to gain these abilities, while those who didn't missed out and felt burnt.

I was actually holding off commenting on your thread because I was interested to see if the dev team said anything on the matter. Also, the mechanics and game balance aren't my area, and I don't want to come off sounding like I'm some kind of authority when I'm not.

All this time I just assumed that the dev team simply didn't have time to implement TF-granted abilities. It makes me sad, especially since unlike CoC, there are a lot of class and equipment-granted abilities so characters of 'normal' races wouldn't really be at a disadvantage

It's still strange that in case of Vanae Milk we sort-of gained an ability but it doesn't work as one. IMO if the milk you get as a Vanae-morph has comparable potency to what normal Vanaes produce, then it should be a Drug Special.

 

[Text Based Adventurer]

Racial traits that provide combat benefits would really only be viable if you could get the perks separately as well. So you could get the perk through standard use of the items you come across - either as a benefit of the look you are going for or because appearance doesn't matter and you don't want to go out of you way for it - or you could with a certain NPC, quest reward, what have you, breakdown and analyse the requisite transformative and its interactions with your nanomachines and create a targeted augmentation which would allow for Steele to acquire the perk without the need for racial prerequisites. 

 

[Decanter]

you could with a certain NPC, quest reward, what have you, breakdown and analyse the requisite transformative and its interactions with your nanomachines and create a targeted augmentation which would allow for Steele to acquire the perk without the need for racial prerequisites. 

This is a cool idea, but I don't think it solves the dilemma well enough to have not-underpowered TF perks. For example, maybe the skin markings are no longer required, but you still have to give up lactating chocolate in order to lactate vanae drug.

 

[JimThermic]

Racial traits that provide combat benefits would really only be viable if you could get the perks separately as well. So you could get the perk through standard use of the items you come across - either as a benefit of the look you are going for or because appearance doesn't matter and you don't want to go out of you way for it - or you could with a certain NPC, quest reward, what have you, breakdown and analyse the requisite transformative and its interactions with your nanomachines and create a targeted augmentation which would allow for Steele to acquire the perk without the need for racial prerequisites. 

Sounds something like this idea. :3

 

[Nik_van_Rijn]

Sounds something like this idea. :3

Yeah, Savin's system looks awesome, as does your suggestion. However, IMO there should me more than one slot for those TF-related traits, since some species have nice passive perks, plus there are some pure flavour options (cumvore gimme gimme). There's also the problem of some of those abilities making zero sense when separated from certain TFs of the race they're based on. E.g. Vanae Camouflage probably won't make any sense for PCs with non-vanae skin, and Vanae Milk certainly shouldn't work for anyone without actual mammary glands. So I'm not sure that you would be able to 100% solve the problem of 'TF-gated abilities and people feeling that they are missing out' with such system.

 

[Svelliphore]

Yeah, Savin's system looks awesome, as does your suggestion. However, IMO there should me more than one slot for those TF-related traits, since some species have nice passive perks, plus there are some pure flavour options (cumvore gimme gimme). There's also the problem of some of those abilities making zero sense when separated from certain TFs of the race they're based on. E.g. Vanae Camouflage probably won't make any sense for PCs with non-vanae skin, and Vanae Milk certainly shouldn't work for anyone without actual mammary glands. So I'm not sure that you would be able to 100% solve the problem of 'TF-gated abilities and people feeling that they are missing out' with such system.

From the aesthetic/flavor side, presumably people's preferences are not so incoherent as to want logically impossible combinations of abilities and TFs; if they are, too bad for them. (But some abilities, like Nuki Nuts, have no firm logical reason to be tied to the TF status of unrelated body parts.) From the combat balance side, this is a possible issue; I don't see any easy way around it. People could try to generally have mechanically equivalent options available, though: for example, the Vanae Milk is a milk-flavored Lust attack, and there could be other types of special Lust attacks that appeal to different people.

 

[Savin]

presumably people's preferences are not so incoherent as to want logically impossible combinations of abilities and TFs

*laughing uncontrollably*

 

[JimThermic]

From the aesthetic/flavor side, presumably people's preferences are not so incoherent as to want logically impossible combinations of abilities and TFs.

Off the top of my head, I remember at least some people want Nuki-nuts level of cum producing ability but with tiny trap sacks, or a Vanae Queen's level of milk production ability but with no actual boobs.

...So, you know, Savin's response is pretty much spot on.

 

[Svelliphore]

Off the top of my head, I remember at least some people want Nuki-nuts level of cum producing ability but with tiny trap sacks, or a Vanae Queen's level of milk production ability but with no actual boobs.
...So, you know, Savin's response is pretty much spot on.

I don't consider simple size changes logically impossible though, merely physically impossible (I differentiate the two in my head. There's plenty of physically impossible stuff in the game already). I was responding specifically to the example of the Vanae Milk special attack making "zero sense" without mammary glands; it seems to me that a milk-producing character requires at a minimum glands to produce the fluid, and nipples to express it. That doesn't necessarily mean "breasts," though. By "logically impossible," I meant things like "have a knotted penis and also not have a penis." (Or, going with the combat theme, "have a bludgeoning penis that can be used in combat, and also not have a penis (for all other game purposes).") Nonsensical things that sane people would not actually request because, well, they don't make sense. If a handwaving explanation is used, it doesn't count ("Oh, the dick-bludgeon is retractible and only expands when needed for combat").

 

[JimThermic]

I don't consider simple size changes logically impossible though, merely physically impossible (I differentiate the two in my head. There's plenty of physically impossible stuff in the game already). I was responding specifically to the example of the Vanae Milk special attack making "zero sense" without mammary glands; it seems to me that a milk-producing character requires at a minimum glands to produce the fluid, and nipples to express it. That doesn't necessarily mean "breasts," though. By "logically impossible," I meant things like "have a knotted penis and also not have a penis." (Or, going with the combat theme, "have a bludgeoning penis that can be used in combat, and also not have a penis (for all other game purposes).") Nonsensical things that sane people would not actually request because, well, they don't make sense. If a handwaving explanation is used, it doesn't count ("Oh, the dick-bludgeon is retractible and only expands when needed for combat").

I consider impossible things to be impossible and improbable things to be improbable. That's just me, though.

 

[Nik_van_Rijn]

By "logically impossible," I meant things like "have a knotted penis and also not have a penis." (Or, going with the combat theme, "have a bludgeoning penis that can be used in combat, and also not have a penis (for all other game purposes).") Nonsensical things that sane people would not actually request because, well, they don't make sense. If a handwaving explanation is used, it doesn't count ("Oh, the dick-bludgeon is retractible and only expands when needed for combat").

So you personally would be okay with anything that doesn't violate formal logic and/or has at least the flimsiest of excuses?

As a side note, the addition of cybernetic augmentations I distinctly remember reading about at some point would help a lot with satisfying those demanding individuals with crazy Ideas, if the dev team would suddenly decide to give a damn about them.

 

[StarcraftJunkie]

So you personally would be okay with anything that doesn't violate formal logic and/or has at least the flimsiest of excuses?

As a side note, the addition of cybernetic augmentations I distinctly remember reading about at some point would help a lot with satisfying those demanding individuals with crazy Ideas, if the dev team would suddenly decide to give a damn about them.

Seriously, dude? The game's in alpha. Not all the systems and options are going to be in yet, nor is the dev team under any obligation to work on the systems in the order you'd prefer. Getting angry about that is way out of line.

 

[Nik_van_Rijn]

Seriously, dude? The game's in alpha. Not all the systems and options are going to be in yet, nor is the dev team under any obligation to work on the systems in the order you'd prefer. Getting angry about that is way out of line.

Did it seriously come across that way; angry, entitled and all that jazz?

What I was getting at is this: the devs seem to not care very much, if at all, about crazy and non-nonsensical demands for logically impossible things, even though they get them frequently enough to have the reaction demonstrated above. I'm perfectly fine with that, or with them shooting down any ideas that don't strike their fancy. But if, for some reason, they'd decide to throw those people a bone, cybernetic augmentation will allow them to make a lot of those ideas semi-plausible.

 

[Ormael]

As a side note, the addition of cybernetic augmentations I distinctly remember reading about at some point would help a lot with satisfying those demanding individuals with crazy Ideas, if the dev team would suddenly decide to give a damn about them.

(What I about to say is naturaly irony so not take it serious Nik) Whole cybernetic impants replacing breasts splashing around Vanae Milk when? Or replacment balls for someone who lost them with cyberballs making even Kiro blush with output and to that total compact sized (as in making your crotch flat if you like that when?

On the side notes of cybernetic impants and so on I reminded Hot Shots 2 and the USA president from there. That was one of hella cybernetic/biological replacement example ^^

But no I not wanna think about that some perks/specials become more explainable with cybernetics...why? First one form the side case: getting two more arms by cybernetics and demanding perks with more limbs owned. I still think about even with cybernetic implants/replacments excuse not to trying make some perks been possible to get. Having some of body part at some minimal size req is fine but not trying use that above meantioned excuse to remove it or lower the req size, shape or other quality req in it.