The Quadomme fight: Why it's poorly designed and how to potentially fix it

ColdArt

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Feb 22, 2018
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The current Quadomme fight has some issues that prevent it from working well. I recognize, of course, that the current difficulty of the fight represents a new choice to make TiTS actually have some difficulty with its turn based combat, and I applaud that choice. However, the way said difficulty is currently implemented feels unfair and unfun rather than challenging and engaging.

The first issue with it is the randomness of the fight, and this is present even at its inception. The fight begins with you already entangled in the web of the Quadomme where you only have a choice of submitting or trying to struggle out of it. Assuming that you decide you actually want to fight the Quadomme(god help you) you now have to endure several rounds where you can only attempt to struggle out of the web, all while taking around 20-30 lust damage per turn.

If you are the expected “average” level 5-7 character at this point, it is not at all unlikely that you will get out of the web only after already having taken 60-70 lust damage, and if you are unlucky, you might just spend the entire fight stuck in the web without being able to do anything about it at all. I’ve certainly had a number of encounters where the latter has happened.

The randomness doesn’t just stop there however-even if you are lucky and break out of the web(or dodge it entirely with good Reflexes at the start, though even with said reflexes it's a dice roll) you still have to now beat the actual Quadomme itself, something far easier said than done. For one thing, just because you broke out of the web once does not mean it can’t ensnare you in it again because the web is still present even after you break out of it.

However, you then see an option to “Attack Web”! “Ah ha” you might think to yourself. “This is how I can prevent myself from getting ensnared in that bullshit again”. If you said this to yourself during this encounter, you probably found out a minute later just how wrong you are, because picking this option is a complete trap. Not only are you not guaranteed to break the web on the first try, not only are you taking damage every turn you try to hit it (both lust and physical), but even if you break it, the Quadomme can literally just cast the web again and instantly ensnare you again.

Indeed, the web attack essentially acts like Confuse Ray or Supersonic from Pokémon- not only does it give you the potential in any following round to be CC(crowd controlled) by it and once again forced to struggle out of the web while taking 20-30 lust damage per turn, but it can also do this the same turn it's cast. This leads to situations where you break out of the web, only to be immediately ensnared by it AGAIN the very next turn and having to struggle out of it all over again.

Obviously, this can end up being very frustrating if you are trying to actually win the encounter.

And even beyond all the web nonsense, the fight still remains difficult. The Quadomme is basically unkillable with weapons or normal attacks thanks to its high health and armor and its evasion. The intention here by the developer is pretty clear- they want you to use lust attacks to win rather than the normal guns and swords you’ve likely been relying on for the majority of the game. But therein lies the issue with not just this fight, but the TiTS lust combat system itself- it does not encourage you to ever really use lust combat outside of this fight.

Up until this point, you could go through the game just shooting and slashing anything in your way with an ability or two thrown in for good measure, and because the difficulty of the game is quite easy, you wouldn’t really have any problems. This means that it's honestly not unlikely for people to reach this point without using tease attacks. And that's an issue because unlike your normal shoot/melee damage which grows from equips and levels, the only way your tease damage goes up is from clothing and actually using the tease attack itself to get it to a high level for each of the 4 body parts.

So if you are one of these people who neglected tease or, for this fight, the right kind of tease, even if you figure out that you are supposed to use tease attacks you’ll likely find that you’ll still lose, because in addition to everything else the Quadomme gets it also has the ability to heal lust damage off. So unless your teases are hitting for about 30 damage or so rather than the more likely 10-17 it’s very easy for the fight to drag out, and with every turn that goes by is another chance to get hit by the web and another dice roll to see if you luck out or lose.

Because no prior fights really make it necessary to use tease at all, when you finally encounter one like this it basically mandates that you grind for it. And it's not even a boss! It’s a normal encounter in the deep caves.

It’s fine if fights are difficult. But if you are going to design fights like this, then there needs to be a few other steps taken in conjunction so that it doesn’t feel like such a difficulty spike and so reliant on luck to win.

If I were to suggest changes to the encounter, I would take a look at the web mechanic in this fight. Make the attack web mechanic much more relevant. Make it so that the same turn that the Quadomme casts the web it is also unable to catch you in it because currently there is no way to react to that and it just feels cheap. Perhaps include other tools in the game or other responses one could use. If you have a flaming weapon that could be potentially used to burn the web away or something(Yes, I know that webs aren’t actually that flammable in reality but hey, this isn’t reality and plenty of other games have done it.) Lower the lust heal(or remove it entirely) and nerf the lust damage it does to the player when entangled in the web These are all changes that could be done to make the fight less ridiculous for the vast majority of people playing the game.

However, these are in the end only band aid fixes to the wider problem of the overall difficulty curve. I think it’s an admirable goal to bring the focus of TiTS more on the gameplay and make combat like this difficult. But you can’t do it by just injecting tough encounters that spike the difficulty like this out of nowhere.

If you are going to include fights that only can realistically be beaten with lust outside of being massively overleveled and overgeared, then the first planet Mhen’Ga should also have similar fights where lust is also the main path to victory, just so that players recognize it as something that should be trained. Alternatively, rework the way tease attacks scale in the game. Perhaps add some more power to it from leveling or class. There are more options than just this of course, but these are some basic ideas that could be used to potentially start rebalancing the entirety of the game(although of course, this kind of rebalancing would be a very large undertaking at this point).

It’s a bit of a blessing and a curse at the moment that so much of the game can be beaten purely by using the same attack button over and over again. A blessing because it makes grinding easy and moving through random encounters quickly easy, but a curse because it ultimately makes it so that one ends up paying very little attention to the fight itself.

So, with all that said, this is where TiTS has to make its choice.

TiTS has to decide if its going to be a game that is essentially just a world of interactive fiction, or if it can become something that people would play for the gameplay itself rather than just the sexy bits.
 

ColdArt

New Member
Feb 22, 2018
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I know that thread exists. But I ended up writing so much that I figured it deserved its own thread.
 

null_blank

Well-Known Member
Oct 29, 2015
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Slight misconception. You don't always start the fight webbed, that's based on a reflex check. Though at max reflex you can still fail and start webbed so there's a bit of RNG involved from what I've seen.

Also, tease isn't necessary to defeat the quadomme. You just need a source of damage that isn't a standard attack.
 
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ColdArt

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Feb 22, 2018
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I know about the reflexes thing(its mentioned somewhere in the original post that is honestly way too long) but, as you say there is still RNG involved with it which I'm not a huge fan of.

As for the special attack thing, I felt disincentivized from trying the specials because my only grenade attack as the mercenary with my build was the AOE grenade, which to me didn't make logical sense to use on a single target.

And as for it being the ant-lion fight from CoC all over again, they are certainly similar, but the ant lion's trap had a lot less RNG in it since you could guarantee that you would never fall into the trap as long as you climbed the walls or did whatever the special action was that fight every other turn.
 
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null_blank

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Oct 29, 2015
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I know about the reflexes thing(its mentioned somewhere in the original post that is honestly way too long) but, as you say there is still RNG involved with it which I'm not a huge fan of.

As for the special attack thing, I felt disincentivized from trying the specials because my only grenade attack as the mercenary with my build was the AOE grenade, which to me didn't make logical sense to use on a single target.

And as for it being the ant-lion fight from CoC all over again, they are certainly similar, but the ant lion's trap had a lot less RNG in it since you could guarantee that you would never fall into the trap as long as you climbed the walls or did whatever the special action was that fight every other turn.

The fight isn't that bad at all...until you get webbed. Then it's a race to get out because the quadomme destroys you with lust. Kinda feel this part may need looking at or just move the quadomme to a separate area altogether.
 

Crablord

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Jan 18, 2016
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As for the special attack thing, I felt disincentivized from trying the specials because my only grenade attack as the mercenary with my build was the AOE grenade, which to me didn't make logical sense to use on a single target.

the aoe grenades on the merc do not do enough damage at all on the quadomme, so if you picked that you might aswell just not try.
 

ScarletteKnight

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Dec 19, 2015
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If I recall correctly, the melee Merc is good enough at group fights that the single-target explosive is definitely the better deal. But I don't actually play Merc, so...
 

null_blank

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Oct 29, 2015
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Carpet grenades are ideal for ranged mercs who already specialize in ridiculous single target damage. It actually makes sense as to why so many people are mad because it primarily makes the most face-rolling combat class absolutely crumple on the quadomme.
 
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XBoxMaster131

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Oct 18, 2016
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Wouldn't det charges be better for single targets? After all, that's what they're designed for.
 

null_blank

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Oct 29, 2015
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Wouldn't det charges be better for single targets? After all, that's what they're designed for.
Which is why I tend not to take det charges as a ranged merc, they already naturally do enormous damage to single targets over time. This is also why I tend to take det charges on melee mercs, the class is already naturally AoE because of Cleave, it doesn't need another AoE option.
 

JK Drack

Member
Feb 8, 2018
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Uh, it's totally subjective, but i think they are quite easy. They have tough armor/shield, but even then, still easy to deal with without lust based attack.