The Morality of The Seven (Heavy Lore spoilers)

[Greyfox643]

After playing through (and absolutely LOVING) the newest scene with a Mystery Kitty at the Temple, it got me thinking about taking Keros' deal, and potentially future deals when they get implemented in the coming years:

We may not get the choice to do with our soul whatever we wish.

Kas and the big 7 have all been dropping hints that there are going to be a serious round of Choice and Consequence at the end of the line.

And if we've taken a divine deal, I'm starting to feel like that choice would be made for us... but I'm also unsure of the face due to:

(Spoilers for backer build)

Spoiler: Backer spoilers within

Mallach straight up saying that they are actually interested in, and following, Kas' soul experimentation. Likely to see how much they can continue to combat corruption at the soul level. As I think even they realize the nature of their being is irreversible.

Also, I find it both sweet and shocking that Kas wants our soul to be AS PURE AS POSSIBLE. Im... honestly not sure of the implication of that. Especially in light of the fact that nearly any tender moment with her requires some Mediation time to offset it.

Edit: changed topic name to reflect desired discussion, as the original topic question was answered.

 

[WolframL]

Well, Savin has said that binding ourselves to a god will probably have an impact on the endings available for that run of the game so depending on the variety and conditions, a Champ might get cut out of endings that they'd otherwise have had access to by virtue of being soulbound... but we can't be sure on that and I very much doubt that it would lock us onto only one ending option with no room for choice at all.

 

[Savin]

And if we've taken a divine deal, I'm starting to feel like that choice would be made for us

You will not be locked into one ending due entirely to soulbinding.

You will be locked out of at least one ending. You may be able to opt into additional endings based on whom you bind yourself to.

 

[drossbots]

This is why you don't make deals with eldritch abominations from beyond the veil.

 

[Greyfox643]

This is why you don't make deals with eldritch abominations from beyond the veil.

But... but... He gave me the most beautiful floofy tails, and the cutest most petable ears! Surely he cant be all bad, even after ascending via Doom Slayer levels of death.

But yeah, them being interested in the fruits of corrupted labor is kinda sus

 

[drossbots]

But... but... He gave me the most beautiful floofy tails, and the cutest most petable ears! Surely he cant be all bad, even after ascending via Doom Slayer levels of death.

But yeah, them being interested in the fruits of corrupted labor is kinda sus

Spoiler

Floofy tails are temporary. Souls are eternal. Resist temptation

 

[tmax]

But... but... He gave me the most beautiful floofy tails, and the cutest most petable ears! Surely he cant be all bad, even after ascending via Doom Slayer levels of death.

But yeah, them being interested in the fruits of corrupted labor is kinda sus

Spoiler

Well, and maybe I'm reading the story wrong, but doesn't Snek goddess of magic (fuck I don't remember her name, starts with a V) say that effectively she GAINED sentience only after causing all of the death and destruction in the Godswar? I don't know how much you can blame a non-sentient animal acting solely on a specific drive to satisfy its needs.

AFTER that though when they're effectively posing as the gods, THEN we can begin to question their morality in the greater sphere of the game, especially if Kass is causing harm and experimenting on the locals, but the victors are the ones to write the history books though so we'll only know by the end of the story.

 

[Greyfox643]

Spoiler

Well, and maybe I'm reading the story wrong, but doesn't Snek goddess of magic (fuck I don't remember her name, starts with a V) say that effectively she GAINED sentience only after causing all of the death and destruction in the Godswar? I don't know how much you can blame a non-sentient animal acting solely on a specific drive to satisfy its needs.

AFTER that though when they're effectively posing as the gods, THEN we can begin to question their morality in the greater sphere of the game, especially if Kass is causing harm and experimenting on the locals, but the victors are the ones to write the history books though so we'll only know by the end of the story.

oh 100% legit. They couldn't be considered to have had morals, let alone sentience before they had undergone their apotheosis.

My worry, is that they only care about Kasyrra's METHODS of experimentation, stating that it was too extreme, but not about the subject. I'm taking this as they genuinely wish for a deeper understanding of mortal souls.

Hell, I'm even betting that Keros has been carefully scrutinizing Our Own soul, away from the prying eyes of everyone.

 

[tmax]

oh 100% legit. They couldn't be considered to have had morals, let alone sentience before they had undergone their apotheosis.

My worry, is that they only care about Kasyrra's METHODS of experimentation, stating that it was too extreme, but not about the subject. I'm taking this as they genuinely wish for a deeper understanding of mortal souls.

Hell, I'm even betting that Keros has been carefully scrutinizing Our Own soul, away from the prying eyes of everyone.

Spoiler

I seriously wouldn't doubt it either, canonically, it's been like, a couple of centuries only since they've gained sentience, so in some ways, they've seen a lot, but in typical god depictions in mythology and fiction, they're almost like the exoneration of raw emotion or construct. So they have this greed for MORE knowledge or following their primal desires, and as beings that effectively EVOLVED to have a soul and sentience, it's probably a topic that's very close to the chest.

I don't think they'd DARE harvest souls like Kasyrra, but additionally, I believe that if someone else is doing the dirty work they probably don't mind if there's a benefit to gain from it.

 

[drossbots]

oh 100% legit. They couldn't be considered to have had morals, let alone sentience before they had undergone their apotheosis.

My worry, is that they only care about Kasyrra's METHODS of experimentation, stating that it was too extreme, but not about the subject. I'm taking this as they genuinely wish for a deeper understanding of mortal souls.

Hell, I'm even betting that Keros has been carefully scrutinizing Our Own soul, away from the prying eyes of everyone.

Spoiler

I'm not so certain about this. Nareva says wraiths are empty, lacking emotion and conscience. However she also says that they are intelligent, and the fact that they made deals with people during the war implies this intelligence isn't entirely animal. I'd assume they're more like psychopaths; they're intelligent creatures, but they're selfish and driven by hunger, and don't care who they have to hurt to satisfy it. The question then becomes: Should a psychopath be held accountable for his/her actions in the same way as a normal person with a conscience?

 

[Greyfox643]

Spoiler

I'm not so certain about this. Nareva says wraiths are empty, lacking emotion and conscience. However she also says that they are intelligent, and the fact that they made deals with people during the war implies this intelligence isn't entirely animal. I'd assume they're more like psychopaths; they're intelligent creatures, but they're selfish and driven by hunger, and don't care who they have to hurt to satisfy it. The question then becomes: Should a psychopath be held accountable for his/her actions in the same way as a normal person with a conscience?

In short, no but actually yes.

You can hold them accountable based on raw facts, and cause and effect. But without the ability to Empathize, they wouldn't care, ever. No remorse for their action, no willingness to "atone" for what other perceive as crimes. Because to them, it was justified as the most efficient way to grow strong and to continue to survive. No sort of crime and punishment system would worm here, they would just logically work through how to get through the system to survive.

After they gain the ability to Empathize with both themselves, and their victims, I feel like holding them accountable feels more "real". Its at that point Redemption and Rehabilitation can exist on the table. As now Grief, Remorse, and Guilt are all present as well.

To wax biblical, they've tasted Original Sin, and now possess knowledge of what's Just and what isnt.

I had originally thought the seven as standing firmly in the "Good" axis of ye-olde alignment chart.

But with this latest scene, I see that the best of them may just be along the "Neutral" Cross-Axis instead.

 

[tmax]

Spoiler

I'm not so certain about this. Nareva says wraiths are empty, lacking emotion and conscience. However she also says that they are intelligent, and the fact that they made deals with people during the war implies this intelligence isn't entirely animal. I'd assume they're more like psychopaths; they're intelligent creatures, but they're selfish and driven by hunger, and don't care who they have to hurt to satisfy it. The question then becomes: Should a psychopath be held accountable for his/her actions in the same way as a normal person with a conscience?

Spoiler

Well with that info, I don't know, the question I don't think any more is SHOULD you, but HOW could you lol. They've effectively risen to the status of gods (minus having true creation of the soul), so short of having a singular god to hold them accountable for past crimes. Which at this point, only the elves being the longest-lived race really remember anything about the Godswar and its direct impacts on them personally, for a lot of the other races it's already faded into the memory of a darker time, and with them assuming the roles of their previous non-existent gods, it just makes it even THAT more challenging.

It's kind of an odd comparison, it's been a hot minute since I've read through the entire sequence with Nareva, but truly it felt more to me that they were beasts, and maybe the intention behind that was more that they simply BEHAVED like beasts but still had intellect? Either way, I'm not sure if the true semantics here is meaningful, because at the end of the day they have seemingly transformed into different beings entirely. Also, the fact that post-transformation they assisted in pushing back AGAINST what they once were. It's a slippery slope for sure though.

 

[Undecided]

Spoiler

I'm not so certain about this. Nareva says wraiths are empty, lacking emotion and conscience. However she also says that they are intelligent, and the fact that they made deals with people during the war implies this intelligence isn't entirely animal. I'd assume they're more like psychopaths; they're intelligent creatures, but they're selfish and driven by hunger, and don't care who they have to hurt to satisfy it. The question then becomes: Should a psychopath be held accountable for his/her actions in the same way as a normal person with a conscience?

In short, no but actually yes.

You can hold them accountable based on raw facts, and cause and effect. But without the ability to Empathize, they wouldn't care, ever. No remorse for their action, no willingness to "atone" for what other perceive as crimes. Because to them, it was justified as the most efficient way to grow strong and to continue to survive. No sort of crime and punishment system would worm here, they would just logically work through how to get through the system to survive.

After they gain the ability to Empathize with both themselves, and their victims, I feel like holding them accountable feels more "real". Its at that point Redemption and Rehabilitation can exist on the table. As now Grief, Remorse, and Guilt are all present as well.

To wax biblical, they've tasted Original Sin, and now possess knowledge of what's Just and what isnt.

I had originally thought the seven as standing firmly in the "Good" axis of ye-olde alignment chart.

But with this latest scene, I see that the best of them may just be along the "Neutral" Cross-Axis instead.

Spoiler

I'd be inclined to say yes as well.
Also, with the knowledge that they're content to just sit idly by while Kasyrra does her thing makes the Lumia scene at the Palace of Ice seem all the more fake (or full of bravado).

 

[Starstruck]

Lumia scene at the Palace of Ice seem all the more fake (or full of bravado).

To be fair, Lumia takes this stance with Kasyrra only when she goes too far and lets the Black Thing into Savarra with her portal mishap, which does not necessarily have to happen if you go down the romance path with Kasyrra. If you let her concentrate on her work with the portal so it doesn't go haywire, then fuck her in the Queen's bedchamber, you can probably get the scene in the Temple without triggering the one in the Palace.

 

[drossbots]

To be fair, Lumia takes this stance with Kasyrra only when she goes too far and lets the Black Thing into Savarra with her portal mishap, which does not necessarily have to happen if you go down the romance path with Kasyrra. If you let her concentrate on her work with the portal so it doesn't go haywire, then fuck her in the Queen's bedchamber, you can probably get the scene in the Temple without triggering the one in the Palace.

Spoiler

I feel like Lumia chose to do something then only because her power base was threatened. Kas fucked around in the Royal Palace and corrupted the Kingdom she swore to protect for weeks and no one did anything, even though all the gods knew and Lumia's Palace was literally right there. She only showed up when Kas' antics let in a Wraith that was powerful enough to possibly threaten the seven. After all, there's a possible bad end where she loses that fight.

Meanwhile, Tollus and his demons were doing whatever on her front door basically, and she didn't do anything, likely cause she doesn't view them as a threat. If we let the Rift be fully corrupted, the Winter City probably would've been screwed when the corrupted Alliance came down on them, and their sworn protector stood by and did nothing. Even the Valkyries didn't do anything.

In short: gods are pretty sus, fam

 

[Savin]

Spoiler

Floofy tails are temporary. Souls are eternal. Resist temptation

Actually they're a consumable resource :3

However she also says that they are intelligent, and the fact that they made deals with people during the war implies this intelligence isn't entirely animal.

I wouldn't view them as having the same kind of intelligence that a human has. They're uh, very Lovecraftian in that way; a Wraith's brain equivalent is probably some incomprehensible nightmare hellscape of non-Euclidian geometry and madness.

Spoiler

When I write about Wraiths I like to think of them like amoeba, reacting to stimuli without really having any understanding of what they're doing or why. They just do. Sometimes what they do would require a genius level of intellect, sometimes it's just nom.

 

[Kingu2]

To be fair, Lumia takes this stance with Kasyrra only when she goes too far and lets the Black Thing into Savarra with her portal mishap, which does not necessarily have to happen if you go down the romance path with Kasyrra. If you let her concentrate on her work with the portal so it doesn't go haywire, then fuck her in the Queen's bedchamber, you can probably get the scene in the Temple without triggering the one in the Palace.

actually if you just attack her the portal will fail and nothing comes through at all.

for the sevens morality I don't think that they're evil. at least they aren't outwardly malicious towards anyone in particular including the antagonist. but I can't really say that they're good if they don't do anything. I mean yeah they committed mass murder as wraiths but without emotions or a sense of Identity it's not something you can easily blame them for. besides they did ultimately save the world from the wraiths once they changed.

after 200 years the 7 ostensibly rule over the world but they don't actually seem to do much of anything to the benefit or detriment of anyone. It's hard for me to gage if someone's good or not if they don't do anything. although I will say I'm adverse to the Idea of worshipping them like gods and giving them my soul. it just feels like my eternal soul is being massively undervalued for how much these immortal beings want it. sorry if this is a bit off topic but if I'm going to sell my soul it will for a hell of a lot more than some fluffy tails and a few new powers.

 

[drossbots]

Actually they're a consumable resource :3

So what you're saying is, souls are like oil, and Keros wants my special soul oil? That's even worse.

 

[Starstruck]

feels like my eternal soul is being massively undervalued for how much these immortal beings want it.

Now tbf, if you bothered to approach Keros a second time to take up his bargain he's most likely already has a hook in your balls called Kiyoko, and he isn't ignorant of this. So he doesn't need to offer much beside a place in his flock to entice you to let him have your soul. The rest of them though... as of right now most of them do not have this.

A case could be made for Lumia having a similar hook in Etheryn if that is where your interests lie, but unlike Keros' bargain, becoming a Valkyrie does nothing to bring the two of you closer together.

 

[Greyfox643]

Yeah. Definitely felt like Tobs was twisting the screws on the wife end to get you to take the deal.
Both Kiyoko and Kinu reaaaally help the sale Unknowingly.

 

[Kingu2]

Now tbf, if you bothered to approach Keros a second time to take up his bargain he's most likely already has a hook in your balls called Kiyoko,

Yeah. Definitely felt like Tobs was twisting the screws on the wife end to get you to take the deal. Both Kiyoko and Kinu reaaaally help the sale Unknowingly.

wdym, I'm already married to Kiyoko and we have over thirty kids together. and he already approved our marriage in front of everybody, he can't take it back now. Even if he did it wouldn't stop me from screwing her and spending time with Kinu, so I don't see how he could use her as a bargaining chip.

 

[drossbots]

wdym, I'm already married to Kiyoko and we have over thirty kids together. and he already approved our marriage in front of everybody, he can't take it back now. Even if he did it wouldn't stop me from screwing her and spending time with Kinu, so I don't see how he could use her as a bargaining chip.

It leans into the fact that none of Kiyoko's people will accept you unless you're one of them. So if you want the Den of Foxes to stop being the Den of Passive Aggressiveness whenever you hang with them, you gotta take his deal. You're basically selling your soul to impress your wife's family. Peer pressure is a powerful thing.

Of course, he also offers the deal even if Kiyoko's still trapped in the stone, in which case maybe he just wants to see if you'll take his super one-sided deal? After all, once you say yes, he's got you for life. I ain't givin' up my soul oil to anybody

 

[Wint3rRyd3r]

Spoiler: I fucking love over analyzing media

I don't think the seven can be judged as a group. Their personalities are too different and they clearly have different goals, at least relative to their domain. Of what we know, Mallach is a very practical person. When talked with he is very matter of fact and blunt with serious matters. He says he won't risk opening portals due to the danger to the world that would cause. We don't know why he thinks like this. Maybe he feels he has a duty to protect the world or maybe he has more selfish reasons. It's hard to judge him when he has valid reasons not to help and we don't know all of his reasons. Keros is a hard to understand ass. No seriously, he is all over the place and it's really hard to get a read on him. My thoughts: he either sucks at his job or he has some social-Darwinist views. Or maybe he doesn't know as much as he acts like. Nareva comes across as a lonely woman who deeply regrets her past actions. To me, she seems the most "human" of the seven. To be fair, the conversation battle gives more to go on with her than the others. But what we have is a remorseful and emotional woman who wants a connection with others outside of the seven. She does have the same "no hand holding" views as the others. But outside of that, she keeps the souls of her last two victims alive and possibly healing them, enjoys company, constantly reacts very emotionally, and even confirms the true identity of the seven. Good thing I like big tiddy goth eldritch horrors. Lumia is, at the moment, the only one I'd call evil or at least dangerously selfish. The whole Aetheldred shit show happens after the godswar. Either Lumia wants nonbelievers to suffer and she endorsed what happened, or she doesn't care. There being Valkyrie ghosts in that quest implies the former. It seems to me that Lumia cares more about amassing followers, damn the consequences and those who may suffer. Sorra can get fucked. Not because of anything she did, but because she's the patron saint of harpies. I'm sick of getting attacked by harpies. Guilt by association. Velun made deer babes so he's okay. If he contributed the dryad trio to the world, then he's a damn hero in my book. Praise Orlaith.

Judging the seven for their actions as wraiths is understandable but not fair. They literally felt nothing but hunger and couldn't empathize. I think of them like the Typhon from Prey. Intelligent, hungry animals that lack the ability to empathize with what they view as food. Holding them responsible is bit of a grey area.

As for why they're interested in Kas's soul experiments, I don't know. I don't have backer builds and don't know her endgame. They could just want to understand the soul or maybe want an artificial one. Maybe they just have a thing for mad scientists who use nipple rings as heavy armor.

I'm not giving them my soul. As much as I like and trust Nareva, I don't trust the other six and want to keep my soul. FFS I have Edelgard as my avatar. I ain't letting no gods, no matter how sexy, control me. If I don't simp for the sexy dragon punch pope who's only honesty is in them hips, then I ain't simping for big titty Cthulhu. Smol imperial axe gf all the way my brothers and sisters and non-binary comrades.

If souls look like crystals, can be they be used as suckers and hard candy? Asking for a friend.

 

[Kingu2]

It leans into the fact that none of Kiyoko's people will accept you unless you're one of them. So if you want the Den of Foxes to stop being the Den of Passive Aggressiveness whenever you hang with them, you gotta take his deal. You're basically selling your soul to impress your wife's family. Peer pressure is a powerful thing.

ooooohhhh. well that is true but I don't give a crap about that. those fluffy tailed assholes can be as passive aggressive as they want I don't care about them. The only kitsunes I care about are Kiyoko, our kids together and Kohaku. the rest of them could die some glorious honorable death offscreen and I wouldn't care at all.

 

[WolframL]

A case could be made for Lumia having a similar hook in Etheryn if that is where your interests lie, but unlike Keros' bargain, becoming a Valkyrie does nothing to bring the two of you closer together.

Depends. Since Ryn is a boreal elf she has a longer potential lifespan than the Champion even if you're a Wyld Elf, so if one divine TF can change your lifespan to match that of the race you've become (and there's dialogue indicating that Keros' transformation does) it's a fair assumption that becoming a Valkyrie might do something similar and give the Champion a lifespan closer to that of a boreal elf.

With that in mind, my Noble Scion's binding herself to Lumia regardless of potential consequences because the alternative as a human is to die of old age way before Ryn does. The wings and pointy ears are just a bonus next to priceless time.

If souls look like crystals, can be they be used as suckers and hard candy? Asking for a friend.

I mean, Kasyrra does say that Alissa was really stupid with what she did with her soul (pre-demonification no less) and that she could at least have eaten it like rock candy for a power boost...

 

[drossbots]

Spoiler: I fucking love over analyzing media

I don't think the seven can be judged as a group. Their personalities are too different and they clearly have different goals, at least relative to their domain. Of what we know, Mallach is a very practical person. When talked with he is very matter of fact and blunt with serious matters. He says he won't risk opening portals due to the danger to the world that would cause. We don't know why he thinks like this. Maybe he feels he has a duty to protect the world or maybe he has more selfish reasons. It's hard to judge him when he has valid reasons not to help and we don't know all of his reasons. Keros is a hard to understand ass. No seriously, he is all over the place and it's really hard to get a read on him. My thoughts: he either sucks at his job or he has some social-Darwinist views. Or maybe he doesn't know as much as he acts like. Nareva comes across as a lonely woman who deeply regrets her past actions. To me, she seems the most "human" of the seven. To be fair, the conversation battle gives more to go on with her than the others. But what we have is a remorseful and emotional woman who wants a connection with others outside of the seven. She does have the same "no hand holding" views as the others. But outside of that, she keeps the souls of her last two victims alive and possibly healing them, enjoys company, constantly reacts very emotionally, and even confirms the true identity of the seven. Good thing I like big tiddy goth eldritch horrors. Lumia is, at the moment, the only one I'd call evil or at least dangerously selfish. The whole Aetheldred shit show happens after the godswar. Either Lumia wants nonbelievers to suffer and she endorsed what happened, or she doesn't care. There being Valkyrie ghosts in that quest implies the former. It seems to me that Lumia cares more about amassing followers, damn the consequences and those who may suffer. Sorra can get fucked. Not because of anything she did, but because she's the patron saint of harpies. I'm sick of getting attacked by harpies. Guilt by association. Velun made deer babes so he's okay. If he contributed the dryad trio to the world, then he's a damn hero in my book. Praise Orlaith.

Judging the seven for their actions as wraiths is understandable but not fair. They literally felt nothing but hunger and couldn't empathize. I think of them like the Typhon from Prey. Intelligent, hungry animals that lack the ability to empathize with what they view as food. Holding them responsible is bit of a grey area.

As for why they're interested in Kas's soul experiments, I don't know. I don't have backer builds and don't know her endgame. They could just want to understand the soul or maybe want an artificial one. Maybe they just have a thing for mad scientists who use nipple rings as heavy armor.

I'm not giving them my soul. As much as I like and trust Nareva, I don't trust the other six and want to keep my soul. FFS I have Edelgard as my avatar. I ain't letting no gods, no matter how sexy, control me. If I don't simp for the sexy dragon punch pope who's only honesty is in them hips, then I ain't simping for big titty Cthulhu. Smol imperial axe gf all the way my brothers and sisters and non-binary comrades.

If souls look like crystals, can be they be used as suckers and hard candy? Asking for a friend.

Spoiler: You're right, over-analyzing stuff is great

Is it unfair to judge? Kinda, but I feel like it's possible to commit crimes so heinous that it doesn't matter whether judgement is fair or not. Murdering thousands is one of those crimes. Especially when you then rule over those people as gods afterwards, using power that you got from said murder. Plus Nareva only confirmed the truth after lying and obstructing during the whole conversation.

Souls would probably be crystal rock candy, but I don't think a normal mortal can eat souls. If a mortal eats a soul, is that cannibalism?

 

[Lone Wolf115]

Spoiler: You're right, over-analyzing stuff is great

Is it unfair to judge? Kinda, but I feel like it's possible to commit crimes so heinous that it doesn't matter whether judgement is fair or not. Murdering thousands is one of those crimes. Especially when you then rule over those people as gods afterwards, using power that you got from said murder. Plus Nareva only confirmed the truth after lying and obstructing during the whole conversation.

Souls would probably be crystal rock candy, but I don't think a normal mortal can eat souls. If a mortal eats a soul, is that cannibalism?

Good question that probably depends on your point of view you got me thinking.

 

[Wint3rRyd3r]

Spoiler: You're right, over-analyzing stuff is great

Is it unfair to judge? Kinda, but I feel like it's possible to commit crimes so heinous that it doesn't matter whether judgement is fair or not. Murdering thousands is one of those crimes. Especially when you then rule over those people as gods afterwards, using power that you got from said murder. Plus Nareva only confirmed the truth after lying and obstructing during the whole conversation.

Souls would probably be crystal rock candy, but I don't think a normal mortal can eat souls. If a mortal eats a soul, is that cannibalism?

To be fair to Nareva, she really wasn't doing a good job at hiding it. I still think she wanted someone to know the truth. As for judging them, I agree them masquerading as gods is pretty scummy and it's fair to hate them for the whole attempted genocide to feed themselves. But we have to take into account their emotional and mental state at the time of the crime. It also needs to be considered that the seven we know are new entities from their previous forms. It's definitely something with no easy answer and forgiving or hating them are both reasonable reactions.

If a mortal eats a soul, then it's kinky.

I mean, Kasyrra does say that Alissa was really stupid with what she did with her soul (pre-demonification no less) and that she could at least have eaten it like rock candy for a power boost...

To be fair, Alissa did everything wrong and makes Kas and the wraiths look like saints. Because at least Kas and the wraiths have extenuating circumstances for their actions with the whole "literally can't feel empathy" thing. Alissa is stupid AND evil. It'd be funny if there weren't real people like her.

 

[Kingu2]

Depends. Since Ryn is a boreal elf she has a longer potential lifespan than the Champion even if you're a Wyld Elf, so if one divine TF can change your lifespan to match that of the race you've become (and there's dialogue indicating that Keros' transformation does) it's a fair assumption that becoming a Valkyrie might do something similar and give the Champion a lifespan closer to that of a boreal elf.

With that in mind, my Noble Scion's binding herself to Lumia regardless of potential consequences because the alternative as a human is to die of old age way before Ryn does. The wings and pointy ears are just a bonus next to priceless time.

Now I'm not sayin I would do it but, immortality is the bare minimum it would take to get me to even consider selling my soul

Spoiler: I fucking love over analyzing media

I don't think the seven can be judged as a group. Their personalities are too different and they clearly have different goals, at least relative to their domain. Of what we know, Mallach is a very practical person. When talked with he is very matter of fact and blunt with serious matters. He says he won't risk opening portals due to the danger to the world that would cause. We don't know why he thinks like this. Maybe he feels he has a duty to protect the world or maybe he has more selfish reasons. It's hard to judge him when he has valid reasons not to help and we don't know all of his reasons. Keros is a hard to understand ass. No seriously, he is all over the place and it's really hard to get a read on him. My thoughts: he either sucks at his job or he has some social-Darwinist views. Or maybe he doesn't know as much as he acts like. Nareva comes across as a lonely woman who deeply regrets her past actions. To me, she seems the most "human" of the seven. To be fair, the conversation battle gives more to go on with her than the others. But what we have is a remorseful and emotional woman who wants a connection with others outside of the seven. She does have the same "no hand holding" views as the others. But outside of that, she keeps the souls of her last two victims alive and possibly healing them, enjoys company, constantly reacts very emotionally, and even confirms the true identity of the seven. Good thing I like big tiddy goth eldritch horrors. Lumia is, at the moment, the only one I'd call evil or at least dangerously selfish. The whole Aetheldred shit show happens after the godswar. Either Lumia wants nonbelievers to suffer and she endorsed what happened, or she doesn't care. There being Valkyrie ghosts in that quest implies the former. It seems to me that Lumia cares more about amassing followers, damn the consequences and those who may suffer. Sorra can get fucked. Not because of anything she did, but because she's the patron saint of harpies. I'm sick of getting attacked by harpies. Guilt by association. Velun made deer babes so he's okay. If he contributed the dryad trio to the world, then he's a damn hero in my book. Praise Orlaith.

Judging the seven for their actions as wraiths is understandable but not fair. They literally felt nothing but hunger and couldn't empathize. I think of them like the Typhon from Prey. Intelligent, hungry animals that lack the ability to empathize with what they view as food. Holding them responsible is bit of a grey area.

As for why they're interested in Kas's soul experiments, I don't know. I don't have backer builds and don't know her endgame. They could just want to understand the soul or maybe want an artificial one. Maybe they just have a thing for mad scientists who use nipple rings as heavy armor.

I'm not giving them my soul. As much as I like and trust Nareva, I don't trust the other six and want to keep my soul. FFS I have Edelgard as my avatar. I ain't letting no gods, no matter how sexy, control me. If I don't simp for the sexy dragon punch pope who's only honesty is in them hips, then I ain't simping for big titty Cthulhu. Smol imperial axe gf all the way my brothers and sisters and non-binary comrades.

If souls look like crystals, can be they be used as suckers and hard candy? Asking for a friend.

yeah they've made some fucked up and questionable decisions. I understand their reasoning but I don't trust them at all. I won't say that they're evil but they're not really the sort I'd want to ally with or work for.

 

[drossbots]

for me its really hard to like the seven after the convocation of mirrors event and after the temple of sin event I like Mallach even less.

Not to mention if they stifle the world's development.

I'm pretty sure Savin was joking when he said something about the Seven stifling the World's development. I mean, technically, they already did that with the whole apocalyptic soul eaters thing, buuuuuuut

I haven't seen the Temple of Sin event since I didn't build the Temple on my main playthrough. Can't have Cait swearing her soul to a Wraith. It's hard missing out on all those catgirls for the RP, but

Plus there's only one catgirl I really need in my life

Also I guess I can see it on my anything goes playthrough