The Grand Galactic Credit Theory

TheHappiestMerchantMan

Active Member
Oct 5, 2015
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Hey folks, it's your local spreadsheet fetishist here. After a conversation in another thread last night, It came to my attention that the value of the Galactic Credit is pretty much "whatever the writer wants at the time". To quote Savin, they're basically Zimbabwe Bucks. In an attempt to actually get a unified value system, I'm going to start laying out some discussions here. It'll be heavy on economics and low on the sexy stuff (unless playing EVE and the like got your motor going) but everyone's welcome to pitch in.

So, to start, we're going to take a base value. I'm choosing to use "the daily wage of an entry level job" which based on some stuff Fen's said, is about 80 credits a day. Now, meet Jim Wulfsen. Jim's the the cashier at the local McAusars, always ready to take your order tail wagging and ears perked. Jim works full time at McAusars because he's got that corporate loyalty, and so he earns 400 credits a week, or 1600 a month. For the sake of simplicity, Jim's monthly necessities (his rent, his bills, his food needs) come to 1000 credits a month, which leaves our ausar friend with 600 credits a month to spend on whatever he wants.

Now, let's start getting into the nitty gritty here. The basic TF items, IE Ausar treats, Humana+, Kaithrit, Nepeta, etc cost 600 a pop. So, by saving his free money for a month, Jim can take a single dose of transformative micromachines, assuming he wants to become one of the common races of the UGC. This seems fair enough, given that in lore transforming yourself appears to be a pretty major decision for people not blessed with a full suite of medical nanobots (AKA Steele). A single dose also isn't enough to fully transform either, that'd be roughly 4-6 doses. So to fully transition from adorable half-dog to baseline human or adorable half-cat, Jim's going to need about a third to a half a year's wages. Again, seems fair enough.

Now let's say Jim's neighborhood is onset by rascally hoodlums and Jim wants some personal protection to sleep better at night. The cheapest gun in game is the holdout pistol, at 300 credits, or half a month's wage. That's actually nice and cheap for a gun, but it's basically a snub .38 special in an age of lasers and shield generators. So Jim wants something nicer. He decides on a Mark 3 laser pistol, since it's flash and less explodier then the Mark 2 was. This beaut is going to run him 1000 credits, or a month and half's wages, which again seems pretty fair for personal protection. (For reference, Cabelas sells a 1911 for 1000 dollars IRL).

So far, we've kept things pretty sane, right? Jim's gonna need about half a year to fully TF to a different species, and he'd need a month and a half to buy a nice gun. Now let's drop a bombshell. To buy a sentient being, Jim only needs to save up about 8 month's wages. For a living being. Sure, that being is addicted to lust drugs and requires constant supervision, but still. 5000 to buy a person. Actually, this is pretty overpriced if we look at historical values for slaves. A healthy 23 year old in 1850 cost $100, which is about 3000 in modern moneys. So Reaha is actually a bad bargain, given she is most decidedly NOT healthy.

Speaking of Reaha, let's discuss her briefly, shall we? Reaha states she fell into debt because she blew all her money on bovine gene mods. Poor life choices aside, we've just proven it's 6 month's minimum wage to earn a full gene mod course, so what the hell was Reaha doing that she fell so far she sold herself into slavery? There is always the chance bovine mods cost far more then the average, perhaps because of increased demand for fetish purposes? Reaha isn't the only NPC that appears to have been ripped off on Gene mods. Sera is alsaso implied to be heavily, heavily in debt (her expac documents confirm this, Sera's pretty much in the same boat as Reaha vis having to sell herself, literally.) At least in Sera's case the gene mods she bought are said to be experimental, custom, or simply not readily produced.

This is simply the first of many posts on the matter by me, and naturally anyone is welcome to post their findings, theories, or views on sorting out how exactly the costs of various items work both in game and in story. Next post will be on the subject of expensive guns and starship costs (and an actual discourse on the original debate topic, the costs of AI/androids/sexbots)
 

Kesil

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2015
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I'm glad to know I'm not the only one concerned by this issue. I shudder to think that Steele is the heir of Mr. Goldenpants in times of the Future Weimar Republic. Also, as a player, I find it hard to make money when loot TF items go under 30 credits most of the time and happen to keep spare weapons in case I ever need to change my fighting style. And then there's the cheeky thing on how you can't save those rare Myrellion minerals on board. The collector in me wants to keep a piece of each, but the player just needs to keep on running the cash flow. Sure, I could use an editor, but I'd like to earn enough by myself to fund things, grab transformatives, customize Ben/Bess and hope to amass a good bunch for possible weapons and whatnot.
 

Nik_van_Rijn

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Sep 10, 2015
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506
Moscow, RF
So far, we've kept things pretty sane, right? Jim's gonna need about half a year to fully TF to a different species, and he'd need a month and a half to buy a nice gun. Now let's drop a bombshell. To buy a sentient being, Jim only needs to save up about 8 month's wages. For a living being. Sure, that being is addicted to lust drugs and requires constant supervision, but still. 5000 to buy a person. Actually, this is pretty overpriced if we look at historical values for slaves. A healthy 23 year old in 1850 cost $100, which is about 3000 in modern moneys. So Reaha is actually a bad bargain, given she is most decidedly NOT healthy.

As far as her functioning as a sex-slave an indentured servant providing sexual relief is concerned, Reaha's addiction is an overwhelmingly positive trait. Her general health seems to be fine IIRC.

Speaking of Reaha, let's discuss her briefly, shall we? Reaha states she fell into debt because she blew all her money on bovine gene mods. Poor life choices aside, we've just proven it's 6 month's minimum wage to earn a full gene mod course, so what the hell was Reaha doing that she fell so far she sold herself into slavery? There is always the chance bovine mods cost far more then the average, perhaps because of increased demand for fetish purposes? Reaha isn't the only NPC that appears to have been ripped off on Gene mods. Sera is alsaso implied to be heavily, heavily in debt (her expac documents confirm this, Sera's pretty much in the same boat as Reaha vis having to sell herself, literally.) At least in Sera's case the gene mods she bought are said to be experimental, custom, or simply not readily produced.
Due to being torn between feeling quite insecure about her own body and her fear/contempt towards anything remotely close to Treatment, Reaha chose to use a bunch of expensive, precise, custom-made gene-mods.
 
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TheHappiestMerchantMan

Active Member
Oct 5, 2015
42
4
 

As far as her functioning as a sex-slave an indentured servant providing sexual relief is concerned, Reaha's addiction is an overwhelmingly positive trait. Her general health seems to be fine IIRC.

Due to being torn between feeling quite insecure about her own body and her fear/contempt towards anything remotely close to Treatment, Reaha chose to use a bunch of expensive, precise, custom-made gene-mods.
Thank you for the clarification. I'd assumed her mods must have been custom or something to get her so far in debt
 

Noob Salad

Captain Shitpost
Aug 26, 2015
4,374
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Keep in mind that 5000 for Reaha was considered very cheap. Also, 1 credit for tipping Embry was considered so little it was rude, while 10 was normal. But the real reason I'm posting is that you reminded me about Sera's lack of content. :c

inb4 'murica tipping
 

JimThermic

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Creator
Aug 26, 2015
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Keep in mind that 5000 for Reaha was considered very cheap. Also, 1 credit for tipping Embry was considered so little it was rude, while 10 was normal. But the real reason I'm posting is that you reminded me about Sera's lack of content. :c

Oh god. People got so anal about Embry's tipping scale. Originally I had 10 credits as a low tip, but then people were like 'If some food costs 10 credits, then 10 credit tipping is like the cost of the meal'. Or maybe it wasn't 10 credits, maybe it was 50. Idfk. Space numbers.
 

Woider

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Aug 26, 2015
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Oh god. People got so anal about Embry's tipping scale. Originally I had 10 credits as a low tip, but then people were like 'If some food costs 10 credits, then 10 credit tipping is like the cost of the meal'. Or maybe it wasn't 10 credits, maybe it was 50. Idfk. Space numbers.

I don't think I've ever given her less than a 3-digit number in credits, because she is just too damn adawwrable.
 

TheHappiestMerchantMan

Active Member
Oct 5, 2015
42
4
Tipping systems are inherently illogical and harmful to the workers because it places them at the mercy of assholes who eat at the restaurant. Screed now over, I can see how 10 credits might be seen as a overly high tip given that at a diner like that you're barely going to exceed 20-30 for a meal. Of course, the Waifu™ factor throws all logic out the window anyways.
 

Fisto

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2015
629
9
Tipping systems are inherently illogical and harmful to the workers because it places them at the mercy of assholes who eat at the restaurant. Screed now over, I can see how 10 credits might be seen as a overly high tip given that at a diner like that you're barely going to exceed 20-30 for a meal. Of course, the Waifu™ factor throws all logic out the window anyways.

Tipping is not a good subject to bring up, all I can bring to the plate is...

But I still tip of course,

Also

>Not tipping Embry 1k+ each time

Pfft
 

Fully Automated

Well-Known Member
Oct 11, 2015
366
0
Sera's debt isn't just from her personal mods, though, but from actually getting a business up and running more less from scratch (since she didn't want her family's money).
 

TheHappiestMerchantMan

Active Member
Oct 5, 2015
42
4
Sera's debt isn't just from her personal mods, though, but from actually getting a business up and running more less from scratch (since she didn't want her family's money).

IIRC at least half is the mods, which means she's dropped enough on mods to rival a small business loan.

ANYWAYS MOVING ON YO

Let's talk expensive shit. So, taking a fairly new addition to the game, Emmy. Emmy sells nice fancy guns from Kihacorp, including the very nice and flash Salamander models. The description of which states that it's "almost military grade' in power. Knowing most militaries past, present, and sexy future, this means the Salamander line IS actually military issue - for the reserves of the UGC- and perhaps for the main issue of a secondary power. Now consider the fact that a starship can be had for 165000 credits, courtesy of Gianna's text as she describes the cost of her type of AI. A starship can be had for the price of 12 reserve-grade rifles? that's enough to arm a squad at most. Either Emmy is gouging you something fierce or the sort of starship you get for 165k is literally a vacsealed rumbleseat with an engine on back.

Let's talk about that for a bit shall we? An AI G-class, something considered pretty advanced, is the same price as a 'starship', or again, 12 rifles. Why aren't AI's more prevalent in society? Because AIs of Gianna's level are stated to be pretty rare, and Starships themselves are hardly a dime a dozen. It's considered a feat for Saendra, Kiro, or even Steele to have their own, private, ship. So basically what I'm saying here is Emmy is both literally and figuratively a jackal. Definitely not very good waifu quality. More to come on the Socioeconomics train, after i go back and read up on more docs and codex entries.
 

booleanquestion

Active Member
Oct 16, 2015
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"Almost Military Grade" is an empty phrase, really. The Laser Carbine is, I believe, referred to as Confederation Marine standard issue, thus making it Actual Military Grade, and a lot cheaper. In this case I'd have to go with Emmy, or Kihacorp, seriously screwing the buyer over, since there's really no reason for that much of a price jump between similar weapons, unless it's bespoke, or "Almost Military Grade" means it can almost shoot through a tank. 

It makes sense that the prices would be wildly inflated, in a way. They're on a war world, and anybody who has any inkling of the proper pricing of a weapon would have brought their own damn gun in the first place. The people Emmy is selling to are the ones who want to wander into a warzone, outside of the embassy's protections, and didn't bother to bring their own weapons. Well, them and Steele, but Steele has apparently never heard of mail order since Anno supposedly has the licenses to sell most of the stuff you have to wander around planets to buy.
 
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ShySquare

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Sep 3, 2015
768
676
Yes ! Theories ! I'm always a slut for theories !

That said, I think Gianna says that her AI and body together cost around 165,000 creds, but that doesn't mean that there are no other expenses that come with owning an AI such as her. Her super silicon, for instance. And do AI need to do maintenance checks ? What's her power source ? How much power does she need to "function", and how much would it cost her owner ? Imho, an AI such as Gianna could cost as much as a starship, not necessarily in initial purchase price but in maintenance expenses. I doubt a decent starship would cost a mere 165,000 credits.

Really hoping I have expressed myself correctly, it's so hard to know when communicating in a foreign language
 

Fully Automated

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Oct 11, 2015
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I'm pretty sure a starship's maintenance is more expensive than a companion droid's, though. One of them is supposed to maintain breathable atmosphere while hurling you (and a whole lot of other stuff) through the void of space at relativistic speeds, the other just needs not to twist your dick off if you put it in.
 

ShySquare

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Sep 3, 2015
768
676
I'm pretty sure a starship's maintenance is more expensive than a companion droid's, though. One of them is supposed to maintain breathable atmosphere while hurling you (and a whole lot of other stuff) through the void of space at relativistic speeds, the other just needs not to twist your dick off if you put it in.

It also needs top of line sensors not to crush your dick while still being pleasurably tight, and to not break your ribs or any other bone while hugging. And I bet all those "transmutable fluids" don't come cheap either. My reasoning here is that a droid that is based on "improved" human body and mind would need as much if not more maintenance than a biological human being, and biological human beings do need a fuck ton of maintenance already. Plus, judging from her size, any maintenance would certainly need to be done with nano-precision, which would add to the cost, while (I suppose) starships being bigger would make them more... accessible (?) to repair.

And she's an AI, so she would need really effective and up to date firewalls if she ever connects to the extranet (to avoid an AI going rogue over a virus), which would potentially cost even more money.

Well, those are only theories and speculations to explain why companion droids aren't more common in TiTS verse.

Or, well, when Gianna says she costs as much as a starship, she means a really tiny, crappy one with no FTL travel, and people in TiTS verse generally aren't as keen on tapping metallic booty as we players are.

REALLY off-topic :

(I still can't get over the fact that Pavel Chekov had a threesome with 2 sexbots that looked exactly the same in season 2 of Star Trek TOS. It cracks me up every time I watch the episode)
 

Fully Automated

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Oct 11, 2015
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Starships need sensors and all that junk, and they have to contain everything required for that "fuck ton of maintenance" that biological creatures need. Plus droid bodies probably aren't based on human physiology except as follows from having the same general shape and size.

You'd also want your starship to have up to date firewalls (and I doubt not connecting to the extranet is even an option there).

No starship in the TiTSverse has FTL travel.
 

Noob Salad

Captain Shitpost
Aug 26, 2015
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+Infinity to what Jim said.
 

ShySquare

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Sep 3, 2015
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Starships need sensors and all that junk, and they have to contain everything required for that "fuck ton of maintenance" that biological creatures need. Plus droid bodies probably aren't based on human physiology except as follows from having the same general shape and size.

You'd also want your starship to have up to date firewalls (and I doubt not connecting to the extranet is even an option there).

Definitely didn't express myself correctly, then.

I intended to say that androids bodies would be as complex as human bodies, not that they would be based on human physiology (aside from the fact that the best way to make something human shaped work would still be to take inspiration from real human bodies).

As for the rest... I assumed that, since Gianna said herself that she was as expensive as a starship and at the same time there is no way a spaceship only costs 165,000 creds, then there must be some sort of hidden cost to owning a companion droid, big enough to make her say she is as expensive as a starship. What that mysterious hidden cost could be, we can only speculate, and my hypothesis (that, as you pointed out, is likely wrong) was that this hidden cost would be maintenance costs, since that was the first thing that came to mind when considering an artificial body.

No starship in the TiTSverse has FTL travel.

Dang it ! But point taken.
 

Fully Automated

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Oct 11, 2015
366
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The space winnebago your dad left you probably wouldn't have cost 165k, at least before its no-expense-spared overhaul at the Tavros docks.

Also what stuff costs is random. You can get a mothership with a space nickel if somebody writes that.
 

Nekas

Active Member
Aug 31, 2015
27
5
Well i look at Credits as Euro in EU dont forget there are some nations with local currency. So in a way you could call Credit as a currency that everyone has agreed to take.

But yea 2000 for a hair cut... yea
 

ShySquare

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Sep 3, 2015
768
676
Well i look at Credits as Euro in EU dont forget there are some nations with local currency. So in a way you could call Credit as a currency that everyone has agreed to take.

But yea 2000 for a hair cut... yea

Uh... not exactly sure what you mean, but 1€ in Spain = 1€ in France = 1€ in Italia ; Euro has the same value in every country it's being used, and technically it should be the same with credits...

As for paying more than 1 month's salary for a hair cut... yeah, you would be better off buying a comb and scissors. Unless those were hideously expensive too.
 

Magic Ted

Forum God
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Aug 26, 2015
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I appreciate that for some reason fantasy settings get away with nebulous, global currency and sci-fi ones never do.
 

Nik_van_Rijn

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Sep 10, 2015
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506
Moscow, RF
I appreciate that for some reason fantasy settings get away with nebulous, global currency and sci-fi ones never do.

I've always treated gems as I did Fallout's bottle caps or Metro's bullets; a stop-gap currency of weird origin that emerged after normal economy had collapsed. Credits are quite different in that regard.

"Almost Military Grade" is an empty phrase, really. The Laser Carbine is, I believe, referred to as Confederation Marine standard issue, thus making it Actual Military Grade, and a lot cheaper. In this case I'd have to go with Emmy, or Kihacorp, seriously screwing the buyer over, since there's really no reason for that much of a price jump between similar weapons, unless it's bespoke, or "Almost Military Grade" means it can almost shoot through a tank. 

That discrepancy is confirmed to be just that by the devs and they are going to adjust Tarkus weapons' descriptions at some point. Plus the models you get from Emmy are upgraded well beyond normal grunt-weapon level in terms of everything but their raw damage output.
 

Nonesuch

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Aug 27, 2015
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This topic is super useful for me, given I write stuff that needs costing and rewards all the time and I don't give a shit about numbers, so thanks for doing it. Just thinking about how the anatae economy might work makes me aaargh

...80 creds a day is about minimum wage? Think I've undersold PCs in that whoring thing.
 

TheHappiestMerchantMan

Active Member
Oct 5, 2015
42
4
I appreciate that for some reason fantasy settings get away with nebulous, global currency and sci-fi ones never do.

I think it's the fact fantasy can be rationalized away as "different universe lol" while scifi hits the "this is just in the future, it needs to have the same rules as the modern day". For me, anyways.

This topic is super useful for me, given I write stuff that needs costing and rewards all the time and I don't give a shit about numbers, so thanks for doing it. Just thinking about how the anatae economy might work makes me aaargh

...80 creds a day is about minimum wage? Think I've undersold PCs in that whoring thing.

The 80 creds things comes from the fact that when I asked him about it, Fen told me in his mind 1 Cred was 1 Dollar. I extrapolated that in spaaaaace the minimum wage is probably at least like, 11 creds/hour, shaved a dollar per hour off to taxes and came to 10 Creds/hour x 8 hours a day = 80 creds a day. Whoring is a tricky business because if Steele freelances there's no obligation on the whorehouse's part to pay any wage at all. Even a licensed whore probably has bits in their contract that serve similarly to waiters of today; that is, the business is allowed to pay a base wage lower then minimum because the assumption is the worker will pad it out with tips and/or how well they perform. Knowing Beth's business practices I don't doubt it in fact.

Also, throw me PMs or shit about the anatae economy and i'll do my best to wrangle it out. I'm not lying, I really do love economics both micro and macro.

Random TiTs economic fact for the post: A fancy pocket pussy (the hoverhole) is worth 5 trips to the whorehouse (assuming you sample the doh'rahn. The Ovir is free.). A sound investment for our friend the McAusar's worker, eh?
 
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TheHappiestMerchantMan

Active Member
Oct 5, 2015
42
4
What about a few thousand years of inflation added to the mix?

Because then you can reductio ad absurdum into saying stuff like 'Well naturally the minimum wage is now 1000 credits a day" to which the player then says "well why the fuck am i scrounging for 50/75 credits at a time when i could be making mondo bucks flipping burgers?"

Let's just assume the Galactic Credit is very strong, financially, mainly due to a lack of competing currencies. The UGCSE is reporting all time highs on investments, across the board, etc.
 

Kesil

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Aug 26, 2015
3,440
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Uh... not exactly sure what you mean, but 1€ in Spain = 1€ in France = 1€ in Italia ; Euro has the same value in every country it's being used, and technically it should be the same with credits...

Sadly, a same item might not cost the same in different Eurozone countries. Here's an example: a random Ikea sofa This talk reminds me of that Big Mac index a little.

And then there's that thing in which old currency-euro tends to break, making prizes higher regardless of regular wages in a given country. For example, where I live in, the prize of a regular coffee (in euros) is now that of coffee and a half (old current using the fixed exchange), and I am not sure if people here get more money than what they got before the euro.
 

Klaptrap

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2015
436
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The 80 creds things comes from the fact that when I asked him about it, Fen told me in his mind 1 Cred was 1 Dollar.

I don't think it's a good idea to try and fit in 'X credits equals X money' right alongside with 'items on later planets are more expensive because game'. That leads to people like MerchantMan twisting their brains into pretzels in order to figure out how the fictional economy of a scifi porn game works (it doesn't).

Either credits have a value or they don't. Right now they do, except when they don't.